Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[Deleted member 102539]

It might be that the person(s) who should know who BG is simply do not have the intellect to make the connection....and BG knows it, because he has (probably always) made a point to surround himself with "slower" individuals.

Perhaps BG's only aim is to be more intelligent than everyone around him. Not a sexual offense or similar is important, but an UNSOLVABLE murder. He won't stop, MOO.

 

[ACG2x]

I’ve followed this case casually but recently started diving into it. Quarantine allows you time to do stuff like that. Anyways, my high level thoughts after pouring through podcasts, boards and other stuff:

BRIDGE GUY
- Believe BG did not set out to abduct A&L specifically - meaning he wasn't stalking them - however it’s highly likely he had been in Delphi area and had been to bridge/woods. Knew young girls frequented the area and taking one for sexual perversion was driving factor.

- BG is someone with ties to Indiana but doesn’t necessarily live there or ever lived there.

- BG is likely a loner and someone without a deep family & friends structure otherwise there would’ve been a report of someone who knew him. His image and sketch is one of the most infamous in America.

- He's also likely been in trouble with the law before, however likely for petty crimes and things you wouldn't need a DNA sample saved for. Would be shocked if when they finally catch him, he's a squeaky clean citizen with no past record living in suburbia, etc.

- Highly likely he was or is either a trucker or drifter. This is why billboards of A&L went up in almost the entire lower 48 states. That’s expensive and you wouldn’t do that unless you felt he may have left the area at some point.

- A&L were not his first victims. May have been his first murder victims but not abduction, SA, etc. On the video we know exists, he approached them at a rapid pace. This tells me there was some planning and sophistication to the crime.

- He possessed a gun which was used to subdue the girls into complying. Very difficult for one person to subdue two able bodied teenagers without some legit threat. Based on the recordings the family has indicated they heard, A&L made several comments about the creepy guy approaching or near them. Both A&L seem like intelligent girls and if he just told them to go with him or go “down the hill” with no other means of subduing, they both were athletic enough to make a break for it.

- None of the possible suspects the online sleuth community has reviewed so far are BG. Some are more intriguing than others and kinda, sorta match if you look at them in the correct light, but none presented so far are him.

THE CRIME - **all moo**
- As noted, believe BG had frequented the area at least recently around time of murders. Motivation was sexual in nature.

- Believe the crime was supposed to be abduction and taking someone out of the area in a vehicle which likely was somewhere past "down the hill". Ultimate plan may have been SA/kill but not in the woods. It was broad daylight and he was in a reasonably populated area - tons of risk there.

- Just after 2 PM, Libby takes Snap of Abby on the bridge and posts it. Girls likely haven't seen BG by this point. Do believe he's seen them and is beginning to stalk them.

- Sometime around 2:15-2:20 PM, they notice him. From family comments who have heard some audio Libby recorded, the convo starts as 'regular girl talk' then as they spot BG there were whispers about how he's continually moving towards them, creeping them out, etc. Based on other comments, BG was moving towards them at a rather rapid pace. One of the girls noted they were at or near a dead-end, which could've been what BG wanted - aka waiting until someone that matched his desired victim profile put themselves in that position.

- Believe shortly after this, BG shows them a gun and begins directing them. Part of this direction is to go "down the hill", presumably in the direction where his vehicle is. Did not set out to abduct/SA two girls, but rather one. Plan changes to two when he sees them near the end of the bridge and near a dead-end.

- At some point, at least one of the girls tries to get away or once they realize what he's going to do, fights back. BG now realizes he will not be able to quietly abduct them and panics and commits the crime there.

- Believe one girl was murdered first while the other was either alive and watching or injured/subdued, then BG sexually assaults the other and murders her. Believe manner of death was strangulation for at least one, however knife is also possible. Further believe BG did some type of posing of girls after as a sick trophy. Alluded to by LE with quote "I promise you they are not as you left them".

- I think crime took place between 2:25 - 3:05 PM and murders themselves happened very rapidly after BG realized he wasn't going to be able to abduct them from the area. From the little that's leaked or been released, parts of crime scene matched that of a quick almost rage-like killing.

AFTER CRIME/OTHER
- Believe BG did his posing then left crime scene hurriedly because he knew area was at least semi-frequented by people and it was getting to late afternoon when more would be off work.

- Libby's phone was recovered which is where the images and audio/video came from. I think in his haste to leave crime scene, BG forgot to check for stuff like that or never thought of it to begin with.

- On that note, believe BG was unaware Libby's phone was recording. Strongly suspect she put it in her pocket and kept recording.

- DNA was recovered at the crime scene. Not sure the extent of which it was, but given what's been released so far it's almost impossible for me to believe there was nothing there.

For this crime to be solved, I think either BG will have to make a mistake and be charged with a crime where DNA is required so it can be matched in a criminal database or slip up by talking about or telling someone of the crime which casts a light on him.

It wouldn't surprise me if BG's original motive was to abduct and SA a girl but not necessarily murder however that changed when one of A&L either fought back, refused to comply or made a break for it. Whew - lots to unpack there. Hope this one is solved because aside from all the rumors, speculation and hot takes - this is the brutal murder of two children and their families deserve closure and justice.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

BG is likely a loner and someone without a deep family & friends structure otherwise there would’ve been a report of someone who knew him. His image and sketch is one of the most infamous in America.

Are you sure?? I have doubts ....

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Are you sure?? I have doubts ....

Agree. I’m not so sure BG’s image and sketch are so well known across the US. It certainly is known and infamous to all us who are following the case, but I think most Americans are oblivious. I can count on two fingers the number of my friends who are aware of the Delphi murders and they know only because I told them.

 

[Yemelyan]

So maybe it is like you wrote. Maybe police have other information that I am not aware of that has lead them to conclude the tip is not worth consideration?

SBM.


If I had to guess, yes, this is likely the reason. Didn't a member of the ISP give an interview in which he ran down what they were considering a good or useful tip in this particular case? I want to say it was information officer Dave Bursten. It sounded to me like they are looking for a tip from someone with personal knowledge of an individual who could tie that individual to the region in some way, by their known movements, known behaviors. Which is not to say that your tip wasn't "good," just that it was probably assigned a lower priority if the connection could not be demonstrated or if it didn't fit with their known information about the individual.

 

[MistyWaters]

SBM.


If I had to guess, yes, this is likely the reason. Didn't a member of the ISP give an interview in which he ran down what they were considering a good or useful tip in this particular case? I want to say it was information officer Dave Bursten. It sounded to me like they are looking for a tip from someone with personal knowledge of an individual who could tie that individual to the region in some way, by their known movements, known behaviors. Which is not to say that your tip wasn't "good," just that it was probably assigned a lower priority if the connection could not be demonstrated or if it didn't fit with their known information about the individual.

Yes it seems LE is hoping to receive a tip from anybody who has a personal connection with the possible suspect.

On the 3rd anniversary:

One year since police released new evidence in Delphi investigation
Following the news conference, thousands of tips were received but unfortunately none had any significant impact on the case.

One year later, police are still looking for a break in the investigation. If you have any information, please send tips to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com.

Try to include the following information:

• Suspect's name
• Date of birth or approximate age
• Physical description including height, weight, hair color, eye color
• Address or location including city
• Vehicle information including year, make, model, color
• Specific reason for the tip. Why could they be the suspect?
• Motivation for the crime
• Connection to Delphi, IN

Police say you don't need to have all of those pieces to send a tip, but do ask you include as many details as you can.

 

[sloane7777]

Well that puts us right back to they have nothing.

 

[Justice101]

Still following....

 

[Yemelyan]

Well that puts us right back to they have nothing.

To put a positive spin on it - it may not mean they have nothing....they might have some very specific info but don't want to waste time on tips that don't corroborate what they DO know.

A lot of people hear LE asking for tips and think they are saying "please give us anything that is possible." Then their tiplines were flooded with people calling in ex-husbands, mean bosses, "please check all Carroll County sex offenders" (as if that wasn't one of the first things done), a creepy person they saw once, "have you considered he could be a police officer?" Sure, all of this is possible but how much of it was helpful. I'm guessing very little.

 

[ACG2x]

It's also very possible that they have a strong sense for who the killer might be and it's someone they've talked to, but we are unaware of so far. That would coincide with the message directly to the killer at the 'new direction' PC.

However, suspecting someone and being able to have enough evidence to arrest and ultimately convict are two different things. The absolute doomsday scenario for LE is to get this close, then arrest or collect evidence from a suspect under pretenses that could be thrown out in court and have that happen which leads to him getting off.

They could have a person or people in mind and are watching and waiting to see if they make a mistake. I never read the PC as being "yeah help us because we got nothing".

 

[sloane7777]

It's also very possible that they have a strong sense for who the killer might be and it's someone they've talked to, but we are unaware of so far. That would coincide with the message directly to the killer at the 'new direction' PC.

However, suspecting someone and being able to have enough evidence to arrest and ultimately convict are two different things. The absolute doomsday scenario for LE is to get this close, then arrest or collect evidence from a suspect under pretenses that could be thrown out in court and have that happen which leads to him getting off.

They could have a person or people in mind and are watching and waiting to see if they make a mistake. I never read the PC as being "yeah help us because we got nothing".

That's true!

 

[MistyWaters]

Below has probably been posted before but I hadn’t noticed it. What this indicates to me is LE is moving away from “the sketch is our suspect - he’s the man on the bridge!” to both sketches are now Persons of Interest whom they’re interested in. But this opens the possibility another person entirely was responsible for the murders. Big SNAFU for LE to insist it was The Suspect when sketch #1 was released, then once again Sketch #2, if now they are uncertain. JMO

April 29, 2020
“The Sheriff indicated the two sketches, which varied greatly from each other, were supplied by two different people near the scene on Monday, Feb. 13. Both images are of persons of interest in the investigation...”
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

 

[somequestions]

Agreed. My dad was a psychology and sociology professor. He would have a field day with that belief. There is nothing to justify it except people have an overwhelming need to clutch something that they view as immensely positive but not obvious. Like a prize behind the door. It's the reason scams work even though people know darn well they shouldn't fall for them.

Meanwhile all you have to do is watch true crime programs or read related books. Once law enforcement has someone in mind they fixate on him and do everything to wear him down. They find subordinate and often trivial charges to levy against him, simply to get him inside the system. They threaten others among family/friends with hefty charges if info is being withheld to impede an investigation.

The one thing they don't do is say...oh well they aren't cooperating so I guess we'll go on John Walsh instead.

I don't think Bridge Guy has ever been on a suspect list. I don't think he has been interviewed. I don't think anyone related to him has been interviewed. I don't think he has injected himself. I don't think he was in a search party or at a funeral or in that room. I don't think anyone in his family suspects him. I wouldn't be confident that either sketch looks anything like him.

Give me the Field. There's a whole lot of blenders out there. Immense value in any other possibility.

The one thing I am confident in is that Bridge Guy skews younger not older. I don't see old in any variable, from his frame to his walk or his voice, etc. History of this type of offender is almost never old. I am flabbergasted every time someone suggests 50+. I've always been a believer in low to mid 30s, but 20s or even high teens would not shock me. Older fellow would stun the heck out of me, to the point I'd probably be in too much of a daze to follow the proceedings.

I agree with everything you wrote, but the man I saw who I thought looked like the man from Liberty German's phone looked like he was in his 50's or 60's. It could have just been that he looked older too.

Statistically these types of crimes tend to be committed by younger offenders in their 20's and 30's. So I understand where you are coming from. It is just sometimes people do not fit the profile.

And I did not submit a tip based on those LE sketches because he did not look like either of those sketches, especially the second one. I submitted a tip based on the video from Liberty German's phone. The families and investigators said all they needed was that one tip to help them solve the case so I thought maybe that tip was from me.

But I am sure a lot of people have thought the exact same thing.

 

[Yemelyan]

Below has probably been posted before but I hadn’t noticed it. What this indicates to me is LE is moving away from “the sketch is our suspect - he’s the man on the bridge!” to both sketches are now Persons of Interest whom they’re interested in. But this opens the possibility another person entirely was responsible for the murders. Big SNAFU for LE to insist it was The Suspect when sketch #1 was released, then once again Sketch #2, if now they are uncertain. JMO

April 29, 2020
“The Sheriff indicated the two sketches, which varied greatly from each other, were supplied by two different people near the scene on Monday, Feb. 13. Both images are of persons of interest in the investigation...”
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

Has anyone here ever followed a case that went to trial where a significant part of the defense was "my client looks nothing like the officially circulated sketch"? Or is it generally accepted that sketches as a tool are highly imperfect for reasons we all know?

I know about cases where there were problems with lineups but I'm wondering specifically about sketches. We know they aren't photographs after all.

The reason I'm wondering is, it seems like LE in this case don't wanted to over commit to either sketch. So what has been interpreted as "both are suspects" "possible two perps" is more LE just not wanting to give fodder to a defense at trial.

 

[MistyWaters]

Has anyone here ever followed a case that went to trial where a significant part of the defense was "my client looks nothing like the officially circulated sketch"? Or is it generally accepted that sketches as a tool are highly imperfect for reasons we all know?

I know about cases where there were problems with lineups but I'm wondering specifically about sketches. We know they aren't photographs after all.

The reason I'm wondering is, it seems like LE in this case don't wanted to over commit to either sketch. So what has been interpreted as "both are suspects" "possible two perps" is more LE just not wanting to give fodder to a defense at trial.

I agree, the accuracy of sketches is well known to be doubtful. But none the less LE proceeded to commit and there are many media references to be found in reference to the sketches depicting the suspect at the time.

This one was a release issued directly by ISP when sketch #2 was released over a year ago during the announced “new direction”.

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
“Today, a new sketch of the suspect, appearing to be in his mid-twenties to mid-thirties and believed responsible for the murders of the girls, was shared with the Delphi community and media. As the investigation has progressed, information has been continuously reviewed and examined and this sketch more accurately depicts the face of the suspect from the video recorded on Liberty German's cell phone while she and Abigail were on the High Bridge.“

 

[Yemelyan]

I agree, the accuracy of sketches is well known to be doubtful. But none the less LE proceeded to commit and there are many media references to be found in reference to the sketches depicting the suspect at the time.

This one was a release issued directly by ISP when sketch #2 was released over a year ago during the announced “new direction”.

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
“Today, a new sketch of the suspect, appearing to be in his mid-twenties to mid-thirties and believed responsible for the murders of the girls, was shared with the Delphi community and media. As the investigation has progressed, information has been continuously reviewed and examined and this sketch more accurately depicts the face of the suspect from the video recorded on Liberty German's cell phone while she and Abigail were on the High Bridge.“

I agree, they have stated at different times that each was the face of the killer. But so many things they do also seem to be related to preserving the potential case against a defensive strategy MOO. Thus the reason I asked if that's ever been successfully mounted.

 

[JDough]

Since we were told that GH is an approved source that we can use, he did a show (I believe it was last year) that had a local in the Delphi area call in. GH knew and trusted this person. This man stated he knew that LE only had touch DNA from the shoulder area of one of the girl's sweatshirts. Does this particular GH show ring a bell for anyone else? I'm trying to see if I have the link.

Yes! I saved a link to the video, specifically because of the caller (Dennis). Despite the fact I have listened numerous times, I can't find the conversation at the moment. Here's the link:

 

[JDough]

It might be that the person(s) who should know who BG is simply do not have the intellect to make the connection....and BG knows it, because he has (probably always) made a point to surround himself with "slower" individuals.

This is definitely a possibility.

This ^^^^ part of your post I don't like so much, because I think, BG is not receptive to an appeal to his conscience, never ever. MOO
Does BG even know, that he is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in one person?

I completely agree; I don't think he will ever confess either. But I sure don't mind calling him a coward because of it. And I hope he lurks in the threads and reads how our members feel about him. He may be laughing now; but he won't forever. Can't wait for the day!

I seriously think he has "little man syndrome". He's gotta choose victims that he can overpower to make himself feel bigger. Victims he can threaten and intimidate. This is why he doesn't pick another man as his victim, IMO. Knows he'd get his *advertiser censored** kicked! He's nothing more than an itty-bitty wimp who is despised all over the world. The type of person that someone will gladly turn on one day.

 

[JDough]

I agree with everything you wrote, but the man I saw who I thought looked like the man from Liberty German's phone looked like he was in his 50's or 60's. It could have just been that he looked older too.

Statistically these types of crimes tend to be committed by younger offenders in their 20's and 30's. So I understand where you are coming from. It is just sometimes people do not fit the profile.

And I did not submit a tip based on those LE sketches because he did not look like either of those sketches, especially the second one. I submitted a tip based on the video from Liberty German's phone. The families and investigators said all they needed was that one tip to help them solve the case so I thought maybe that tip was from me.

But I am sure a lot of people have thought the exact same thing.

I have no doubt the Family is grateful for each and every tip that could lead to the killer. Not the "he looks like so-in-so", "my ex should be looked at- he's a real (insert word of your choice)", or random side-by-side photos, but the tips that are legitimate. Someone seen in the vicinity wearing clothes matching the description, someone acting suspicious and was in a hurry to leave the area, etc. is a legitimate tip, IMO.

Despite the fact your tip may not have been the one, you took the time to report a valid tip; a man who was in the area at the time and matched the clothing description given by LE. Don't be too hard on yourself. You did something you thought may help investigators find a mad man.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

The Wildcat Creek Wildlife Center in Delphi, Indiana

This wildlife center is located 7 minutes by car from the Monan High Bridge. You can see all they do on WildcatWildlifeCenter.org. I have noticed several articles in the local newspapers about people photographing and researching the bald eagles in the area woods. This could have been a reason for BG to be in the area.

The Pharos Tribune photographer J Kyle Keener did a large photo spread one month before the murders. He was also present photographing the search for the girls and after they were found. He was the one who reported in the newspaper that he saw girls clothing in the creek near where the girls were found. I wonder if he has been contacted by LE to see if he remembers or knows of other persons photographing the area bald eagles when he was. The problem is that he left the area shortly after the murders because he lost his job at the paper. Does anyone local know if LE contacted him? He would possibly have more photos of the searchers if he didn’t submit them to LE before he left. He might have photos of people he met from other dates when he was in the woods researching the bald eagle story.

I never knew the area is famous for the bald eagles. I just found it interesting and another reason or excuse for strangers to be roaming the woods. What do you think?