Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. judge4justice

    judge4justice New Member

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    First post.. This case still bothers me to this day, since I heard about it back in 2017. Still check in on this thread time to time to see if there's any new leads/developments to ultimately catch BG. The current unfolding scandal in Carroll County could be huge here. Some things are starting to connect up. The second younger sketch is crucial. Especially the shape of his one eye. This is not a coincidence. Like many on here, I believe they have an idea who BG is. Just the same, BG probably knows they've narrowed on him. But they don't have that nail in the coffin evidence to put him away. BG has high power standing, confident, smart and knows what he's doing. A name was dropped on one of these threads a while back. The resemblance to the two sketches to this name is extremely eerie. The second younger sketch is by design, especially the uniqueness of his one eye is very specific. They are closing in on BG, only a matter of time. But he is well insulated and thinks he can't be touched or caught. MOO
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020


  2. bbm

    How do you think about possible occasional "guests" at Purdue, who were male, connected, "locally" well-known and amateurish interested in the same way as was Libby (crime, forensics, etc.)? What are the chances, she got in contact/was watched/was stalked?
     
  3. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

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    I mentioned Purdue early on upthread, and got some harsh responses. Given the second sketch that does indeed look like "Joe College", Purdue shouldn't be overlooked. Early on I was asking if Monon is used as a location to study anything in particular. Being that Purdue is approx. 20 miles from MHB, it seems worthy of consideration. I would have wanted that poster all over Purdue, although it's unlikely that would have been permissible I guess.

    Amateur opinion and speculation
     
  4. Tiger Stripes

    Tiger Stripes Well-Known Member

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    Or another way of putting this might be... "This case could be solved today if police choose the right tip." All JMOO.

    ETA: How tough could that be? Having to choose just a handful of tips -- and correct ones, too -- from among...what? 50,000? 60,000 tips? Boggles the mind. Though I'm no number-cruncher professionally (i. e., accountant, book keeper, etc.), still, one would *think* there might be a high probability that LE received at least one -- if not 3, 4, or maybe even 5 -- tips among those tens of thousands that would pinpoint the exact Delphi killer. Anyone here who can calculate the odds? ;)

    Also, someone here previously stated the name of the very specialized tip software that LE is using, so *maybe* narrowing it down (even to 40 or 50 possibilities, some of which surely must duplicate other tips) isn't an impossibility (it just *sounds* formidable).

    Grateful for all those who still keep hoping and praying for justice for Abby and Libby.
     
  5. MizStery

    MizStery Missing Pregnant Lacy P. brought me here in 2005

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    rosesfromangels,your post brought back a nagging impression from Doug Carter that has stayed with me.I have always tried to find context for the comment(I am quoting only a small portion of his speech) made by Doug Carter at the Delphi Canal Center,26 months into the investigation, “We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know”. Doug Carter ‘looked’ into the camera lens in such a manner that BG was ‘locked in his radar ‘crosshairs’. It felt personal (to me) as if Doug Carter was speaking to a person who believed himself unimpeachable in the horrific murders of Libby and Abby. But as a fellow poster mentioned earlier there are-unusual things that occur in many municipalities that are totally unrelated to this case that Doug Carter could been alluding to in that big press conference? OK,I am guilty of beating a dead horse.I wish I had my emoji of ‘beating a dead horse‘ from our old Webseluths software editor. :rolleyes:

    I pray this nightmare would end for the family and friends of sweet Libby and Abby.

    My Opinion Only
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
  6. Tiger Stripes

    Tiger Stripes Well-Known Member

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    Dear @MizStery, sending condolences your way right now... grief is something that one *never* truly just "gets over". Thank you for your thoughts on the forensics class at Purdue; in a much earlier post (perhaps a year or two ago) that I wrote here, I wondered if the posters of the girls' killer ("Wanted" posters) had been posted on campus there. Someone here (sorry, don't recall who) replied that they attended Purdue [in the spring of 2017], and nothing was posted in the way of a "Wanted" poster on campus -- or anything related to the Delphi case, for that matter.

    Your thoughts about someone who may have mentored/encouraged the girls -- especially in forensics (definitely an interest of Libby's) -- are good thoughts. But how to find out professionals with whom Libby & Abby interacted regarding forensics and criminal justice, especially going back to 2016 (or before)? Would there be an online record showing how many spots were available for such a class, for example, or the names of those teaching the class(es)? Maybe that could be a starting place...

    As one with Hoosier roots (and a Purdue seal on some transcripts ;)), I totally agree with you about Purdue! (But I've also taken a few courses at IU, so am sometimes conflicted as to which side to cheer for, when the two schools compete... LOL)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
  7. Tiger Stripes

    Tiger Stripes Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to Websleuths, @judge4justice! Glad that you're here, and that you're joining all those who long for justice for Abby and Libby; one of these days (could be any day now) we'll read the great news that we've all been waiting for in this case...
     
  8. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    If LE does has a suspect and BG is a person of consequence in the community, it could explain a lot of the LE's actions and non-actions. It would take that much more and then some to make sure he can't evade punishment for what he's done.
     
  9. "Community" open to interpretation? Then: yes, I agree. ;)
     
  10. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome, judge4justice :)
     
    Charlot123 and sunshineray like this.
  11. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger Well-Known Member

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    It's so difficult to change a first impression. I wish it were common knowledge that Carter veered. But the topic still comes up regularly and many followers of this case are unwilling to accept it, largely because all the internet chat and also the television panels in the week or so following the presser focused on the aspect that it had to be fully scripted by the FBI. I've even read reports that former FBI behavioral specialists emphasized that theme on Delphi podcasts.

    It is glaring evidence that they watched the presser but didn't know anything about the paper trail...before and after. Yemelyan spotlighted the major variables. Not only was the clarification required two days later but there are media links all over the place that used the press release as backbone of their coverage. Meanwhile Carter detoured so severely from the press release that he totally ignored the key quotes, the centerpiece quotes. This was not third string by-the-way stuff he deleted.

    Here is a website from a major Fox affiliate in Fort Wayne that relied totally on the press release alone. That is very standard. Notice it doesn't say anything about, "who may be in this room," or anything about, "The Shack." That stuff wasn't in the carefully planned press release. The station website does use the intended quotes, ""We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

    ISP release new information on Delphi murder suspect

    The next example is also prevalent. I have seen it all over the place. Some media outlets used quotes from the actual presser and blended them with the quotes from the press release ("We have a witness...") under the logical impression that Carter would say the words eventually. I have never seen an example -- from politics or sports or true crime or any other topic -- where the key element of a major press release was completely bypassed:

    State Police release new information in Delphi murder case
     
  12. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger Well-Known Member

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    That is great info. This topic came up on Reddit the other day but they didn't have those details. I said it would be interesting to see the distribution, that the vast majority were probably elsewhere. But I had no idea only two parties crossed the bridge.

    That leads me to two conclusions. First, crossing Monon High Bridge was not a frequent occurrence. Not then, not ever. The searchers heard Abby and Libby were missing from the bridge trail. But they did not immediately associate a visit with actually crossing the bridge. Otherwise there would have been major numbers checking on the other side. The fact that searchers prioritized everywhere else should be a hint that the conventional wisdom from afar is wrong. We inherited this case and knew instantly that the girls crossed the bridge. Too many assume that is standard. That flawed impression lends to the theory that Bridge Guy was waiting on the other side.

    He'd be waiting there all day.

    My second conclusion is that Kelsi needed to be more involved that first afternoon. Significantly more involved. Stranger searchers may not have known that Abby and Libby probably crossed the bridge. Kelsi did know that it was likely their intention. In fact, I believe Kelsi (and Cody ? ) crossed the bridge shortly after they joined the search, including checking the homes behind the bridge.
     
  13. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

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    Why did Kelsi assume they crossed the bridge? Why did she herself go there right away? Had she seen the pic of Abby on the bridge, or?

    Crossing the bridge...crossing over....

    Amateur opinion and speculation
     
  14. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger Well-Known Member

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    Up and out near the cemetery makes the most sense. Here is a photo (at right...within an album) that depicts the terrain sloping downward toward the bodies location from an angle. It shows how severe it was, and therefore difficult to search at night. Walking up the crevice would be closer to the trail and may even have served as Bridge Guy's path to a higher route within the treeline on departure:

    خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

    My opinion, BTW, is that the area where the bodies were found supposedly was searched carefully by law enforcement the first night, but they screwed up. That's why Doug Carter had a rather terse "not going to comment on that" when asked during a podcast series why the bodies were not found the first day. Carter would never be annoyed at civilian searchers. But he'd darn sure be upset if Leazenby told him that his men insisted they searched that area.

    Screwing up would be norm during the realm of an outdoors search, where the phrase, "We looked everywhere," has repeatedly been demonstrated as meaningless. But I'm sure there will be nefarious interpretations as well, along with Bridge Guy making the always clever return during the night, determined to dump the bodies and press his luck a second time.

    Here a photo that shows Bridge Guy's potential final return path to rejoin the trail. The photo wasn't intended as such. It is a picture of the red railing that previously was in front of the bridge. When I visited the bridge was being repaired so the red railing had been uplifted and then jammed into the ground left of the trail perhaps 25 yards before the bridge. Now I'm glad I took the photo at an angle and not straightaway. The view behind the railing includes where Bridge Guy could have walked if he came up the slope after leaving the bodies location and walked the 7-9 minutes (estimated) to regain the trail. The white angled tree at far right is just prior to the edge of the creek. You can see the terrain is not bad at all. Bridge Guy can come up the slope -- check for anyone on the trail or near the foot of the bridge -- then proceed at his leisure at any angle. Until looking at this photo more carefully I didn't realize that area left of the trail was so comparatively flat and untroubled:

    Imgur
     
  15. MizStery

    MizStery Missing Pregnant Lacy P. brought me here in 2005

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    There is nothing like looking at photos from a crime scene especially rural terrain that a fellow poster has walked and documented for us. Most of us are out of state and unfamiliar with Delphi. Your details provided me with helpful geographic knowledge of this area.

    This is something we discussed way back in July 17, 2017(over five months from the date of the murders)when police released the sketch of BG.’I am paraphrasing in regards to the sketch’ but it was reported they were not sure of BGs eye color but they were not blue.If my memory is wrong please let me know and I will delete it.

    My opinion
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  16. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    Many possibilities. She definitely followed her sister on Snapchat so she may have seen the photos taken on the bridge. Perhaps they told her in the car as she drove them there that bridge-crossing was the plan. Kelsi and Libby had crossed the bridge on previous occasions (according to Scene of the Crime) so she might have guessed it was in the realm of possibility.
     
  17. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    SBM.

    This is correct, Kelsi and Cody crossed the bridge searching even before LE were called. According to Scene of the Crime, and in Kelsi's words.
     
  18. Ravenmoon

    Ravenmoon "Justice is a dish best served cold"

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    Purdue University also links my POI.
     
  19. MizStery

    MizStery Missing Pregnant Lacy P. brought me here in 2005

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    I apologize for paraphrasing in my post quoted above.Here is the quote from the actual transcription:
    Transcribed by Benty from Media Thread
    Bringing this over from the main thread, as just recalled there is a media thread for this case. This is from a presser on 7/17 with the release of the sketch._________________
    I (Benty)personally did transcription of presser, please excuse any errors

    Q. In the release you mentioned some things exactly such as the hair color, can you talk about this at this time?

    A. Basically, the hair color is a reddish brown. She was, the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but sh.., the person said it was definitely not blue. She was very obvious..., the person was very obviously not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on what color it was.
     
  20. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    I’m still going with my initial instinct that this is a random perp, jmo.
     
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