Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

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MistyWaters

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I don't know whether this detail makes a difference to your theory - to me it seems significant - but the "forensics-related course at Purdue University" was not a regular college-level class where she would have attended with college students or even perhaps a college professor. I looked into this at the time and Purdue offered through their school of education a variety of science and engineering "experiences" or one-day workshops for middle school students, one of the popular ones was called Super Saturday and you could enroll your kid in a variety of science-themed programs. Due to COVID these have all been canceled for the current year so there is less information online now than there used to be, but IMO it looked like her "forensics class" would have been a one day or maybe weeklong drop-off day program that coincided with a school holiday like winter or spring break. It was a fun activity for science-minded young students but it wasn't a college course and she wasn't mingling on campus with the general Purdue student body IMO.
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I also recall noticing Pardue offered a summer Science camp for young teens, iirc it was a week long. I think over time speculation from “Science” into “Forensics” has morphed.

So I’d be very curious if anyone can find mention of Libby, who’d have been 13 or 14 at the time, attending a College level Forensics class because for a grade 8 student that’s just seems rather bizarre as at her age she wouldn’t have met entry level requirements.
 
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I'm having some trouble making the connection between your theory that there were two perpetrators and your second conclusion (which I bolded above) that it then follows that the murders were planned and at least one girl specifically targeted. I would ask, can two people make a decision that if the right opportunity arose, they might try to abduct random children/teens for a criminal purpose? One example that sticks in my mind, because I read the victim's brother's account of the crime, is the murder of Jonathan Kushner in Florida. In this case there were two offenders who together decided that they would abduct and sexually torture a child. According to the confession, they planned to abduct a girl if the right situation came about but "settled" for a boy on that particular day because the opportunity was a good one (he had biked alone to a store to buy candy). The account of their decision was given in the victim's brother's book, "Alligator Candy."



I don't know whether this detail makes a difference to your theory - to me it seems significant - but the "forensics-related course at Purdue University" was not a regular college-level class where she would have attended with college students or even perhaps a college professor. I looked into this at the time and Purdue offered through their school of education a variety of science and engineering "experiences" or one-day workshops for middle school students, one of the popular ones was called Super Saturday and you could enroll your kid in a variety of science-themed programs. Due to COVID these have all been canceled for the current year so there is less information online now than there used to be, but IMO it looked like her "forensics class" would have been a one day or maybe weeklong drop-off day program that coincided with a school holiday like winter or spring break. It was a fun activity for science-minded young students but it wasn't a college course and she wasn't mingling on campus with the general Purdue student body IMO.



As you pointed out, @Diddian, adults killing female teens for a financial motivation is quite rare when compared to other motives such as sexual assault or attempted sexual assault. If this was my theory I would collect as many examples of solved cases where teens were killed for known financial gain as I could and compare it to this one. Were the victims killed inside or outside of their home? Were they abducted first? Were they male or female? Were the victims involved in activities that had to do with drugs or sex work? And then I'd look at the Delphi case and see if any of the patterns fit.
Purdue: I would like to know, if there were adult guests for some special reason allowed to take part, in a class with these teenagers.
Financial motivation for murder: IF there was financial motivation, it would have been murder for hire - I wouldn't rule it out completely. A skilled sk, who murdered for thrill or murdered for thrill and money. I believe, it can be both, possibly. IMO
 

rosesfromangels

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Purdue: I would like to know, if there were adult guests for some special reason allowed to take part, in a class with these teenagers.
Financial motivation for murder: IF there was financial motivation, it would have been murder for hire - I wouldn't rule it out completely. A skilled sk, who murdered for thrill or murdered for thrill and money. I believe, it can be both, possibly. IMO
I try to keep an open mind, because as we know from experience that anything is possible...that said, my current line of thinking is that this was sexually motivated.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 

PaulaDC

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Good example. But what if the wife said she wasn’t home that afternoon? Only then he’d become a possible suspect on the list of who LE continues to investigate, considering there had to have been a valid reason for LE to be interested in what the husband was up to that day?

If LE investigated possible suspects only on the basis of say-so/biased alibis from spouses or friends I think that’d be a very shoddy manner of investigation. Generally those types of alibis are not considered “solid” because they can never be proven to be true without additional collaboration.

JMO
Or if he was at work, works alone and went to the bridge on foot.He's his own alibi. Grew up hanging out in the area and works in the area still knows his old stomping grounds. If you left your vehicle and phone at work you're virtually untraceable. If you're a respected member of the community who never has got caught in the past not being where he was supposed to be it's hard to prove. Moo
 

news buff

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I have only been following this case a short time and have been going through the threads (incl. Media, Maps, and Timeline) here and on Reddit, where there is a pretty decent timeline, as well as listening to some of the well-known podcasts about the case, and I still have plenty to get through.

So far (because of the two different sketches that were both based on witness observations on the day the girls disappeared and the fact that there were two victims, both athletic and very intelligent, and at least one of them as strong as most adults), I strongly suspect that more than one perpetrator was involved and that BG's role may have been to locate and corral the girls and direct them toward the location of a hidden perpetrator (who looks like the second sketch), who was the primary actor in the murders and the one who solicited the help of BG. This would also mean that the murders were planned and that at least one of the girls was specifically targeted by an adult who was paying close attention and somehow learned they would be at Monon High Bridge trails that day (by observing his child's social media, or through secondhand information from someone who did that or who otherwise gained the information).

Both Abby and Libby were strong academically and both were athletic and participated in multiple sports (volleyball and softball for Abby; volleyball, soccer, and softball for Libby). Libby had even taken at least one forensics-related course offered by Purdue University. They also both seemed to maintain a decent level of situational awareness and were aware when they were in the presence of potential risk. Given these characteristics, they were among the last one would expect to suffer such a horrible fate as happened on Feb 13, 2017. But, I keep thinking that maybe it was the fact that they WERE exceptional that they became targeted and ultimately became victims.

I wonder about the possibility that the girls were murdered to eliminate one or both of them as rivals who might have been in the way to someone else's pursuit of a spot on a varsity or elite (volleyball?) sports team or admittance to or a scholarship to Purdue. I know this is farfetched, but since the Wanda Holloway case, it seems a remote possibility that must be at least considered. As WH demonstrated, it occasionally happens that some parents will do even the unthinkable to better the odds of their own child's success and they will even go so far as to solicit the help of someone they expect to be willing to participate if given adequate motivation (money, sexual access to the victims, blackmail based on some kind of past offense). If the perpetrator believed he was eliminating strong competition for a substantial scholarship, there could be a financial motivation as well.
 

news buff

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I'm having some trouble making the connection between your theory that there were two perpetrators and your second conclusion (which I bolded above) that it then follows that the murders were planned and at least one girl specifically targeted. I would ask, can two people make a decision that if the right opportunity arose, they might try to abduct random children/teens for a criminal purpose? One example that sticks in my mind, because I read the victim's brother's account of the crime, is the murder of Jonathan Kushner in Florida. In this case there were two offenders who together decided that they would abduct and sexually torture a child. According to the confession, they planned to abduct a girl if the right situation came about but "settled" for a boy on that particular day because the opportunity was a good one (he had biked alone to a store to buy candy). The account of their decision was given in the victim's brother's book, "Alligator Candy."



I don't know whether this detail makes a difference to your theory - to me it seems significant - but the "forensics-related course at Purdue University" was not a regular college-level class where she would have attended with college students or even perhaps a college professor. I looked into this at the time and Purdue offered through their school of education a variety of science and engineering "experiences" or one-day workshops for middle school students, one of the popular ones was called Super Saturday and you could enroll your kid in a variety of science-themed programs. Due to COVID these have all been canceled for the current year so there is less information online now than there used to be, but IMO it looked like her "forensics class" would have been a one day or maybe weeklong drop-off day program that coincided with a school holiday like winter or spring break. It was a fun activity for science-minded young students but it wasn't a college course and she wasn't mingling on campus with the general Purdue student body IMO.



As you pointed out, @Diddian, adults killing female teens for a financial motivation is quite rare when compared to other motives such as sexual assault or attempted sexual assault. If this was my theory I would collect as many examples of solved cases where teens were killed for known financial gain as I could and compare it to this one. Were the victims killed inside or outside of their home? Were they abducted first? Were they male or female? Were the victims involved in activities that had to do with drugs or sex work? And then I'd look at the Delphi case and see if any of the patterns fit.
Or a friend shunted aside for a new friend.
 

Mandala

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I’ve been reading the threads on this case for quite a while. I am posting because I watched an episode of 48 hours tonight and had a gut feeling about the killer of Heather Bogle in Ohio. It’s a possibility.
 

Yemelyan

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I’ve been reading the threads on this case for quite a while. I am posting because I watched an episode of 48 hours tonight and had a gut feeling about the killer of Heather Bogle in Ohio. It’s a possibility.

I don't think Daniel Myers, who killed Heather Bogle, could be BG for three main reasons: he's over 4 hours away, in another state, with no known connection to Delphi, he's older (age 48 in 2017) than LE seem to think their suspect is, and the main reason is the victims he preyed on and how he chose them seem totally different than what happened in the Delphi case IMO. Myers stalked women he knew personally, grooming or choosing victims who he predicted would not report his rapes. See this article for details on this part of his MO: Heather Bogle case: Daniel Myers' vices detailed in 138-page report

Some articles state that he killed Heather Bogle in a rage because she laughed at him when she rejected his sexual advances. When you read more about his crimes you see that this is way over simplistic. He had already stalked her previously and the real motive for killing her is that unlike his other victims she fought back against his assault.

What I will say is going to be similar IMO between Daniel Myers and the Delphi killer is the focus of the offender on power, domination and control expressed as sexual violence. I also think that like Myers, BG is going to have a trail of victims that did not report his crimes against him (or, they reported it and the allegations against him went nowhere). Myers had 10 other victims of his sexual assaults and no one came forward until after his arrest.
 

rosesfromangels

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well reading the article on the Heather Bogel case, it says the suspect was a delivery man for Whirlpool. He is not a suspect in the Delphi case but I did read the article based on the poster's suggestion. mOO
You are right that any type of delivery person or "official" person in a uniform rarely triggers suspicion and "fits in, in place sight". When people reflect on their memories of that day, their brains may automatically dismiss "official" looking people, instead looking for someone who looks like a crazy man.

I don't know about the rest of you, but WS has turned me in to a full fledged amateur observer. I eyeball everyone it seems; and most especially men at parks looking at, or lurking around kids. I go so far as to covertly take a pic of them if my radar is alerted, or engage them in conversation.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 

IceIce9

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I don't think Daniel Myers, who killed Heather Bogle, could be BG for three main reasons: he's over 4 hours away, in another state, with no known connection to Delphi, he's older (age 48 in 2017) than LE seem to think their suspect is, and the main reason is the victims he preyed on and how he chose them seem totally different than what happened in the Delphi case IMO. Myers stalked women he knew personally, grooming or choosing victims who he predicted would not report his rapes. See this article for details on this part of his MO: Heather Bogle case: Daniel Myers' vices detailed in 138-page report

Some articles state that he killed Heather Bogle in a rage because she laughed at him when she rejected his sexual advances. When you read more about his crimes you see that this is way over simplistic. He had already stalked her previously and the real motive for killing her is that unlike his other victims she fought back against his assault.

What I will say is going to be similar IMO between Daniel Myers and the Delphi killer is the focus of the offender on power, domination and control expressed as sexual violence. I also think that like Myers, BG is going to have a trail of victims that did not report his crimes against him (or, they reported it and the allegations against him went nowhere). Myers had 10 other victims of his sexual assaults and no one came forward until after his arrest.
This is really concerning (from the article) when the police did not believe this witness
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The man told detectives that Myers discarded the gun in a septic tank at the campground.

He told police he offered the information to former detective Sean O'Connell, who did not seem to think it was important.

"(He) then advised that he saw Heather with Danny at the campground two or three times and that Heather mentioned something about Danny at church," the report said. "(He) advised that Heather told him that she and Danny had a thing but now he wouldn't back off and was being persistent."

Hilton said the witness's story could never be corroborated by any other witness, so the statements were not believed to be credible.
 

MissUnderstood

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I followed this case closely at the start and became disheartened by the lack of leads we know there is audio and video. I suspect there’s DNA, although I’m not convinced of that! I really thought someone would have come forward by now with info. If there is DNA can familial genealogy be used? Seems it wasn’t a robbery or we wouldn’t have the phone video. He or them didn’t seem to be too worried about leaving a phone behind or being seen when entering or leaving. It’s like no attempt to cover up was made, but somehow they are getting away with it.
Moo
 
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