Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. Ozoner

    Ozoner Well-Known Member

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    Good point. Certain people stubbornly refuse to let go of their pet theories even when those theories have been disproved. I guess those people have too much mental energy invested in those theories and just can't handle owning up to their mistakes.
     
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  2. Pyschsandi

    Pyschsandi “There can be no good without evil.”

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    Thanks Mac1233 your post about the girls thinking this guy is creepy made me start thinking about the drawings of BG. The 2nd drawing is of a good looking young man that a young teenager wouldn’t think was creepy. They would probably be talking about how cute he was or talking about who would say hello to this guy. In the podcast down the hill they keep saying that it’s probably a mixture of the 1st and 2nd drawings. I would think if Libby started to video him that there was something about this guy that was not good looking, but slightly scary or weird.MOO
     
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  3. Pyschsandi

    Pyschsandi “There can be no good without evil.”

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    Thanks Mac1233 your post about the girls thinking this guy is creepy made me start thinking about the drawings of BG. The 2nd drawing is of a good looking young man that a young teenager wouldn’t think was creepy. They would probably be talking about how cute he was or talking about who would say hello to this guy. In the podcast down the hill they keep saying that it’s probably a mixture of the 1st and 2nd drawings. I would think if Libby started to video him that there was something about this guy that was not good looking, but slightly scary or weird. MOO
     
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  4. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    MOO. I think it was a crime of opportunity. But due to Libby wiping her phone the week before I don't think it can be 100% established there is no online link.

    The opportunistic nature of this crime reminds me of shoplifting, a look around shows no one aware and then a theft with sudden impulsive, competent and rapid action.

    The first time Libby's phone rang it was not answered, the second attempt went straight to voice mail. I think that ring broke off the killers action.

    MOO moments after this last call Libby's father drove by the cemetary to park at the Mears Preserve trail entrance.

    MOO the killer left east from the cemertary almost immediately after the father passed by.
     
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  5. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Another possible reason for some not wanting to let go of a pet theory - the theory implicates their pet POI.
     
  6. Skibunny

    Skibunny Well-Known Member

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    You have to go look up "messy bun". It is a very deliberate hairstyle for casual sporty types, not as easy to create as one might imagine lol. Often seen in high-school and above around my town. Much more work than a plain ponytail. JMO . This case just breaks my heart, these girls were just on the cusp of high-school.
     
  7. Pyschsandi

    Pyschsandi “There can be no good without evil.”

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    I think everyone’s theories can contribute to this case of unknowns. Even if the theory is so far out there, something may spark a really good idea of what happened. (Except for the implication of a pet doing this). Keeping this case in everyone’s mind is what is important. Let’s all keep talking about what theory we believe may be what happened and someone close to BG may see it and find something relevant and connect this case to them.
     
  8. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    deleted. Got snarky. Sorry.
     
  9. Nancy1954

    Nancy1954 Well-Known Member

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    "Messy bun" might be a "very deliberate hairstyle for casual sporty types" but there is another picture of Abby playing softball with her grandfather with a very 'put together' bun on top of her head. It is easy enough to find.. compare it with the picture on the bridge. I rather doubt that Abby took the time that morning to "create" a hairstyle that "wasn't as easy to create as one might imagine" after staying up most of the night talking with Libby. I was just trying to suggest that by the way that Abby presented herself on the bridge she wasn't looking/expecting to meet a boy. That is all.

    JMO
     
  10. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
  11. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately an early Dr Phil show which the family and DC is unavailable online. But in agreement with what you’ve written, I distinctly recall Abby’s mom adamantly objecting to the any suggestion Abby went to the bridge to meet a boy specifically because of how she was dressed and her overall appearance in the bridge photo. A mother surely knows a daughter best.
     
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  12. Justice101

    Justice101 Well-Known Member

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    book mark
     
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  13. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    The example of the shoplifter as an opportunistic criminal is a good one. Taking it further – are they a repeat offender or did they do it one time to see if they could get away with it?

    I wonder if this killer is a repeat offender as a killer (serial killer) or it was a one time thing. (Regardless of whether or not this person has killed before or since, I do believe they’ve committed crimes against persons prior to this. He just didn’t kill the victim(s).)

    Regarding a serial killer, 1st Sgt Holeman of the ISP has stated they’ve looked at the Evansdale murders in IA. And I have no doubt LE has used ViCAP (Violent Criminal Apprehension Program) for similar crimes. The problem with the FBI’s ViCAP is that is that it is not mandatory for any LE agency to enter crimes and not all LE agencies use it. Should a crime with similar MO or signatures have been committed elsewhere such as Chicago, Louisville, or Cleveland, for example, and not entered in ViCAP it won’t show in a search.

    This killer could have had a different victim type before – or since – such as a younger child or older teenager or even an adult. The environment could be different. IOW, he abducted his victims while they were jogging on an isolated road or he went after homeless or runaways. On that particular day in 2017 he happens to be on a trail he may be familiar with from sometime in his past. He sees two girls with no adults around. He checks the area for potential witnesses and decides to go after victims in a new environment that has presented him with an opportunity.
     
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  14. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    Everyone's theories that are based on known, demonstrable facts can absolutely contribute to the overall body of knowledge, awareness and possibilities in this case. But, this is a fact-based forum and theories that are based on incorrect information, improper understanding of facts, or rumor should be called out as such and the information corrected. JMO

    I think the frustration arises when LE appears to confirm certain facts/rumors but posters disregard those statements or twist them in order to fit pet theories.

    For example, we have TL confirming that based on the facts that are known to him that the girls were killed where they were found. (Carroll County Comet Q&A). Yet I guarantee you that in a few days or weeks someone will re-introduce the topic of whether they were killed in a shack or killed somewhere else and brought back in the dead of night, and so forth.
     
  15. St. Anthony2017

    St. Anthony2017 Jax2019

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    If it’s a job for him he is probably his own boss and gets paid by reliving his evil deeds until he strikes again. I agree that he looks “all business” as he approaches them. He will show them who is boss. It’s so scary and sad!
     
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  16. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    Snipped and bolded by me....

    I think there is also the possibility that there is a significant category of offenders who murder once and then they are done, and I think genetic genealogy solves are going to reveal a lot more of these than expected. I'm thinking of April Tinsley's killer. He said he went out looking for victims many times in the years afterwards but never had the same confluence of luck, opportunity, and confidence to pull an abduction off again (of course he also did other crimes that kept his sick fantasies going). So for some murderers, the one act sustains their fantasy life for a very long time. Perhaps for others, the fear of getting caught interrupts the process by which they might have escalated (this was the theory of the criminologist who appeared with the DTH reporters on the HLN Extra about the Delphi case). I think it's also possible that for some offenders the murder didn't meet the expectation for satisfaction that they envisioned - maybe they were interrupted, maybe the victim fought too much, etc.
     
  17. St. Anthony2017

    St. Anthony2017 Jax2019

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    That is why all of the POIs need to be looked at from that perspective. Did he move from the area? Does he put weird posts or photos on his social media that may have double meanings? What have the POIs been doing for the last 4 years? Do they talk about the murders or completely ignore the fact that they helped in the search? Tobe said his list is down to 5 or 6 so a deep dive shouldn’t be that hard.
     
  18. St. Anthony2017

    St. Anthony2017 Jax2019

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    Maybe the killer also saw that their friends could not make it that day so he knew it would just be the two of them.
     
  19. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    IMO, LE has been so sparse with what details they release, saying it is to preserve the integrity of the case, that it doesn't make sense then for them to jeopardize the integrity of the case by lying about those very details.

    I think LE is vague where necessary, and maybe those comments can be interpreted various ways. But other details have been specific and repeated. Assuming they make these comments based on investigative findings, I take them at face value. These are really the only reliable facts we have in this case. JMO
     
  20. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    knows a daughter best.[/QUOTE]
    Agree. Many apparently kill once, realize they were lucky and focus on hiding their crime from then on.
     
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