Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    This sort of brought to my mind something that the current Carroll County prosecutor said in Episode 10 of DTH. The reporter asked him something like, would he feel a sense of relief when there is an arrest. He kind of laughed wryly and said no, that an arrest is just an accusation. It's not going to mean anything unless and until a conviction is obtained in court. All he is focused on is working on the facts available and preserving the integrity of what he knows, until the day in court arrives.
     
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  2. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    I haven't really followed many cases. Is it common for the suspected killer to be acquitted in court? Or does this point to there not being much for prosecutable evidence in Delphi?
     
  3. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    I can certainly see this. I wonder if at least 2 or 3 folks remember someone resembling the sketch or maybe the video in the months leading up to the murders. (Of course, I can't remember anyone who sticks out to me when I was on a local trail this weekend. So its entirely possible he was there sometime before and was completely under the radar.) If this happens to be the case, I wonder if he has other areas or trails he visited somewhere else in the state.
     
  4. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    I actually don't know statistics on felony murder acquittals but I think it is not unusual for investigative teams to make an initial arrest that never proceeds all the way to trial conviction, for various reasons.

    Due to advances in DNA. etc. I think it's overall less common now than it was in the past though it's happened in my area a few times over the last five years. Also the standards for charging someone with homicide are much higher now than they were in the past, so if it goes to trial it's more likely to be a strong case: Open Cases: Why One-Third Of Murders In America Go Unresolved
     
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  5. photographer4

    photographer4 Well-Known Member

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    I also wondered if the hatchet used by DN was of significance to this case. But why? We don't know how the girls were killed - it may have been bloody and involved a sharp weapon (eg: a hatchet), or it may not have. It could have been not bloody at all. If the hatchet was significant, then why? DId he mark the trail with the hatchet? Could it have been in a similar way to something seen at the Crime Scene in this case? We don't know, because we're not told. It wouldn't shock me to learn that the area where the girls had been found was marked by the killer in some odd way.
     
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  6. photographer4

    photographer4 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I did a short experiment recently. At the end of Feb, I drove to a local fast food place, and made an order. While ordering, I made a point of looking around, and noticing the people walking around near my car. I specifically noted their physical appearance, face shape, hair color, accessories like hats or not, clothes, logos etc. I even noted the time of day. I remembered that info for a few days. Here we are a month later, and I only recall ONE person I saw that day, and only vaguely know what we was maybe wearing. I'm uncertain if he wore a hat or not.

    Now, imagine asking people around Delphi (or any other area a crime has happened) to recall details days, weeks, months, YEARS after the fact? Even when paying close attention, these details were soon forgotten. Probably because they were average folks, doing average things.

    There is another short experiment I did. I noted someone with some odd clothes and accessories last month. A month later, I can only recall that they were odd, their clothes were flashy, and the backpack one carried was a Paw Patrol, but that was odd because the guy carrying it was probably in his late teens. Otherwise? I don't remember a thing about them. :(
     
  7. Angels27

    Angels27 Well-Known Member

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    ? FOR LOCALS —

    Can you guys please tell me which businesses in Delphi and the surrounding towns require the employees to wear khaki pants? Thank you.
     
  8. Gypsy86

    Gypsy86 Active Member

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    i sure hopoe they catch this monster. ever since this case happened it has just bothered me so much. someone out there has to know who this man is and obiviouly have no clue what type of man he is. i wonder if he is married, a loner, a drifter. from his clothing he dosent seem to be homeless nor poor. he is casual, wants to blend in. doesnt want to draw attention to himself. is there anyway the girls stopped somewhere before goin to the trail? possibly a store? maybe he spotted them prior and followed them. he was obviously hunting for his helpless pray. i dont feel that this crime was done out of randomness. it was to calculated and seemed planned. how often did the irls go to the trail? where was a local hang out for kids. this man is a monster and he has done these kinda of things before. more than likely he has abducted more than one person at a time before. a first time killer would have not done that. he knew his plan and how he was going to do it. he knew he could get away with it plain and simple
     
  9. Gypsy86

    Gypsy86 Active Member

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    killers like this have patience that are out of this world. and he used their love for one another to control them. pure evil
     
  10. photographer4

    photographer4 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if that is a general statement about most murderers (they miss work, or an apt on the day of, seem to have a plausible excuse)... or if its specific to THIS case?
     
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  11. Kittybunny

    Kittybunny Well-Known Member

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    I feel like it's the same for a lot of cases I've followed, so I would be surprised if it was specific to this case. Someone (@Yemelan?) previously mentioned that if a specific profile is done for a case, that it is rarely released publicly, at least not all of it.
     
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  12. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I’d be sure it’s general behaviours by any criminal attempting to thwart detection as over time there’s been significant studies of common traits amongst criminals who are incarcerated. Some of the same philosophy of the common behaviours were echoed by DC in the April/19 PC including “you want to know what we know”.

    Anyone covering up a crime would have to lie about their whereabouts at the time the crime occurred. Someone noting those sorts of excuses by another person would be a tip LE would be very interested in. JMO
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  13. photographer4

    photographer4 Well-Known Member

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    I came up with Kroger as a possibility? Why do you ask?
     
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  14. Gypsy86

    Gypsy86 Active Member

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    YES AND LIKE ALOT OF CASES SOME INFROMATION IS GOING TO BE WITHHELD DO TO TRYING TO PREVENT FALSE CONFESSIONS. ITS LIKE SOME OF THEM MONSTERS TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OTHER MURDERS SO THE ONES FREE CAN KEEP KILLING
     
  15. Fika

    Fika Active Member

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    Hi,

    I read websleuths before but never posted.
    I'm Dutch living in sweden so forgive my grammar!. I read websleuths about Dutch hikers which i followed and you guys were incredible.
    I was introduced to Delphi case by a friend of mine who grew up there and moved away to Europe few years ago.
    I read quite a bit about the case here but not 100% of threads.
    I came across a few mentions of trial itself. And how would murderer know about it I would like to share some things with you.

    * trials are not hard to find. I never been to United States but after I met a friend from Delphi i Google it out of curiosity and the bridge was in top search of places to see there. It was on TripAdvisor and reddit. One didn't need to know about it as local to go there.

    * i belive the video tape was taken accidentally not on purpose. If one feel threatened its usually 911 call or sms to friends /family that would be a first line if scared of someone.
    I believe video was taken and murder happened to walk on thats why the picture is so pixeled because it's from far far away.

    * I also believe that main motive was sexual assault but time didn't let that happened / murderer was spooked or girls put up bigger fight then he anticipated.

    * crossing the river /creek is not unusual and doesn't necessarily mean person know the area. Its logical thinking that one can be caught doing something while on trail. If he took girls off the trail he might have been easily caught by passersby/dog( which would give an attention to what's going on). Crossing creek gives you control over people who might come by. In case he was caught /seen he will have time to escape before someone would cross water to get to them.

    * i dont believe he is local because it's hard to grasp that to me. I grew up in a small dutch town and I knew everyone and even their extended families. Even if his family doesn't want to say he could be a suspect someone has to see him. He would need to be out there seeing a doctor, having a job, doing groceries, etc etc

    That's all my own opinion.
    Ps. Forget my grammar mistakes :)
     
  16. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    JMO, it's general offender behavior associated with the abduction and murder of children. This article talks about post-offense behavior for these types of murders: Child abduction murder: the impact of forensic evidence on solvability - PubMed

    According to that study, the most common behaviors are: returning to the body disposal site, leaving town immediately after the crime, confiding in someone about the crime, and following the case in the media. I'm unclear if changing appearance was one of the variables considered in this analysis (though it stands logically to reason that this would frequently occur). But you can see how post-offense behavioral analysis connects to some of the recommendations mentioned at the Delphi press conference.
     
  17. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Do you know if those characteristics are also true of younger offenders? They wouldn't have as much flexibility to leave town or even miss school, for instance.
     
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  18. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    As I read about Abby and Libby’s murders, I can’t help but think of the Closs case and the type of perp Patterson is/was. The entire crime really. If you’re familiar with that case, I think you’ll understand what I mean. So many wild theories. In the end it really was relatively simple, yet unpredictable.
     
  19. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I've wondered about a similar offender in Abby and Libby's case.
     
  20. StarryStarryNight

    StarryStarryNight Well-Known Member

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    Welcome Fika!
    Great post! I pretty much agree with all of it especially the part about the trails not being as unknown as people seem to think. That myth was shattered in the HLN special back in February when the head of the Delphi Chamber of Commerce talked about consistently handing out brochures about the trails to people once the trails opened. To me, that blows up the thought that the killer has to be local simply because he “knew the trails”.
     
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