Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[carbuff]

well since I am of the opinion he also did the Evansdale crimes..I would guess he could be from anywhere in the USA but particularly the mid-west.

how far is the next county over from Delphi? I would be looking there.

also how far would he need to drive to pull in the driveway at the dinner hour? about 2.5 hours drive, right?

what are the nearest campuses?

mOO

I'd be looking at people who do pickup or delivery at pig farms, slaughterhouses, or packing plants...

 

[Yemelyan]

Not to say she wasn't a hero because i don't doubt she was an extremely intelligent young woman. I just assumed he walked in the video for one reason. If he was walking towards them on the bridge I don't really understand how would they expect /suspect he would harm them in any way. Enough to start a video before he reaches them. One might say it's a gut feeling but on the video because of how pixeled his image was, he was relatively far away from them. If a man walks towards you on a trail far away is it enough to set red herring to start feeling threatened?

Just my opinion, speculation only - but I think they had a previous brief encounter with him on the trails. Could be as simple as him looking at them a little too long. So when she saw him heading their way, she pulled out her phone because later she was going to show her family "the weird guy on the trails." IMO she didn't anticipate the actual level of danger that she was in.

 

[Fika]

Just my opinion, speculation only - but I think they had a previous brief encounter with him on the trails. Could be as simple as him looking at them a little too long. So when she saw him heading their way, she pulled out her phone because later she was going to show her family "the weird guy on the trails." IMO she didn't anticipate the actual level of danger that she was in.

It could be that they met him before and he appeared later and startled them enough to video tape. Sounds like a good explanation. I wondered about that mostly. After a friend of mine mentioned the murders and video first thing i asked her was why did they record him when he was so far. Someone walking towards you is not enough to set an alarm in one's head. Somehow always thought that was the strangest part of all, why she started to record him from afar.

 

[photographer4]

I do not have the links, but can confirm you're correct in what you wrote. Have seen the same in various approved media.

Ya know, its really interesting that they used the term "presence of mind" and described Libby as a hero! It might be confirming to the killer directly that he wasn't as stealthy as he thought as they noticed him. It is also interesting they refer to the killer as a coward who went after two young girls, but they call Libby a hero. I wonder if that makes the killer feel even more angry - that a young girl is seen as smart and brave while he is pointed out as cowardly and hiding in plain sight.

 

[Kittybunny]

Hi,

I read websleuths before but never posted.
I'm Dutch living in sweden so forgive my grammar!. I read websleuths about Dutch hikers which i followed and you guys were incredible.
I was introduced to Delphi case by a friend of mine who grew up there and moved away to Europe few years ago.
I read quite a bit about the case here but not 100% of threads.
I came across a few mentions of trial itself. And how would murderer know about it I would like to share some things with you.

* trials are not hard to find. I never been to United States but after I met a friend from Delphi i Google it out of curiosity and the bridge was in top search of places to see there. It was on TripAdvisor and reddit. One didn't need to know about it as local to go there.

* i belive the video tape was taken accidentally not on purpose. If one feel threatened its usually 911 call or sms to friends /family that would be a first line if scared of someone.
I believe video was taken and murder happened to walk on thats why the picture is so pixeled because it's from far far away.

* I also believe that main motive was sexual assault but time didn't let that happened / murderer was spooked or girls put up bigger fight then he anticipated.

* crossing the river /creek is not unusual and doesn't necessarily mean person know the area. Its logical thinking that one can be caught doing something while on trail. If he took girls off the trail he might have been easily caught by passersby/dog( which would give an attention to what's going on). Crossing creek gives you control over people who might come by. In case he was caught /seen he will have time to escape before someone would cross water to get to them.

* i dont believe he is local because it's hard to grasp that to me. I grew up in a small dutch town and I knew everyone and even their extended families. Even if his family doesn't want to say he could be a suspect someone has to see him. He would need to be out there seeing a doctor, having a job, doing groceries, etc etc

That's all my own opinion.
Ps. Forget my grammar mistakes

hello and welcome! Thank you for finding your way here and posting your thoughts. I agree with you that there was a sexual motivation to the crime, but that whatever was planned did not necessarily happen. It did happen so fast, so perhaps the active killing itself was sexually satisfying, so an overt sexual act did not need to occur.

 

[TL4S]

Just my opinion, speculation only - but I think they had a previous brief encounter with him on the trails. Could be as simple as him looking at them a little too long. So when she saw him heading their way, she pulled out her phone because later she was going to show her family "the weird guy on the trails." IMO she didn't anticipate the actual level of danger that she was in.

I share this thought. It could even be they sensed he was following them.

 

[Fika]

Just my opinion, speculation only - but I think they had a previous brief encounter with him on the trails. Could be as simple as him looking at them a little too long. So when she saw him heading their way, she pulled out her phone because later she was going to show her family "the weird guy on the trails." IMO she didn't anticipate the actual level of danger that she was in.

It could be that they met him before and he appeared later and startled them enough to video tape. Sounds like a good explanation. I wondered about that mostly. After a friend of mine mentioned the murders and video first thing i asked her was why did they record him when he was so far. Someone walking towards you is not enough to set an alarm in one's head. Somehow always thought that was the strangest part of all, why she started to record him from afar.

I share this thought. It could even be they sensed he was following them.

If they felt scared and followed wouldn't they alert families or authorities? Is it a normal thing to record? I don't mean to imply anything im simply asking. If they were able to post a snapchat from the bridge there had to be some sort of reception there.

 

[Boxer]

hello and welcome! Thank you for finding your way here and posting your thoughts. I agree with you that there was a sexual motivation to the crime, but that whatever was planned did not necessarily happen. It did happen so fast, so perhaps the active killing itself was sexually satisfying, so an overt sexual act did not need to occur.

MOO the phone going off may have caused his attention to shift to escape.

 

[Yemelyan]

It could be that they met him before and he appeared later and startled them enough to video tape. Sounds like a good explanation. I wondered about that mostly. After a friend of mine mentioned the murders and video first thing i asked her was why did they record him when he was so far. Someone walking towards you is not enough to set an alarm in one's head. Somehow always thought that was the strangest part of all, why she started to record him from afar.


If they felt scared and followed wouldn't they alert families or authorities? Is it a normal thing to record? I don't mean to imply anything im simply asking. If they were able to post a snapchat from the bridge there had to be some sort of reception there.

As I said, I don't think she realized the actual level of danger she was in. She thought she was going to report to her family a creepy guy, a weirdo who was walking on the bridge without waiting for them to clear it (which most locals would not have done, out of caution). She didn't think she was videoing a murderer at that point. JMO

 

[TL4S]

It could be that they met him before and he appeared later and startled them enough to video tape. Sounds like a good explanation. I wondered about that mostly. After a friend of mine mentioned the murders and video first thing i asked her was why did they record him when he was so far. Someone walking towards you is not enough to set an alarm in one's head. Somehow always thought that was the strangest part of all, why she started to record him from afar.


If they felt scared and followed wouldn't they alert families or authorities? Is it a normal thing to record? I don't mean to imply anything im simply asking. If they were able to post a snapchat from the bridge there had to be some sort of reception there.

The girls were together, which in and of itself was supposed to offer protection. They were young and likely didn't think their lives were about to end at this guy's hands. It's just my opinion. Plus, in all reality, we don't know that they didn't try to call or message for help, but had no reception at the end of the bridge.

 

[photographer4]

MOO the phone going off may have caused his attention to shift to escape.

Maybe... or... maybe Libby flicked a switch and put it in silent mode without him ever even knowing she had it? I'd be interested to know which mode the device was in when LE found it - did Libby silence it? Or did a ring / text notification interrupt the killer? DG texted he was to meet them in a few mins - if the killer saw that text come through even as pop up on the screen - that might have given him his cue to get the hell out of there. If it was in silent mode, that could be something the killer did himself to allow him to focus on whatever he was doing. Super interesting small detail that might really give LE a lot more info than I've previously considered.

 

[Inthedetails]

As I said, I don't think she realized the actual level of danger she was in. She thought she was going to report to her family a creepy guy, a weirdo who was walking on the bridge without waiting for them to clear it (which most locals would not have done, out of caution). She didn't think she was videoing a murderer at that point. JMO

Interesting point about local etiquette of allowing walkers on the bridge to get to the end before going on the bridge yourself.

If he was local, he might have known that once he was on the bridge with them, nobody was going to suddenly come upon them. It's not as if he could grab them and rush them off - the bridge is dangerous and requires careful stepping. But perhaps he knew he had time alone up there to get them off without other walkers coming along.

Just a thought.

jmo

 

[Thelastleg]

Snipped for focus.

I thought this was possible, as well, until LE said L had the presence of mind to take the phone out and video him. And the family said the girls were talking about him on the video, too.

Also, another article had one of their friends talking about how L often took pics of people to be funny and show her later, iirc. And there's also been reference to no phone reception around the bridge, so calling 911 might not have been an option.

Does anyone have links to these references?

I don't recall a problem with reception as Derrick German rang Libby's phone when he went to pick the girl's up but got no response. He called Libby's grandmother from the trails to tell her that he couldn't find them.

 

[photographer4]

I don't recall a problem with reception as Derrick German rang Libby's phone when he went to pick the girl's up but got no response. He called Libby's grandmother from the trails to tell her that he couldn't find them.

Would you need to be able to receive a signal in order for the police to be able to get a "ping" in the area from the device around 2:30am?

 

[MistyWaters]

Interesting point about local etiquette of allowing walkers on the bridge to get to the end before going on the bridge yourself.

If he was local, he might have known that once he was on the bridge with them, nobody was going to suddenly come upon them. It's not as if he could grab them and rush them off - the bridge is dangerous and requires careful stepping. But perhaps he knew he had time alone up there to get them off without other walkers coming along.

Just a thought.

jmo

Even if the girls were more than 1/2 way across on their way back to the trail when he suddenly began to walk toward them on the bridge, if he was veering from side to side with unsteady movement I think most people would turn around to avoid crossing paths in a situation like that, on the high bridge with no railings. If that’s what happened it’s possible the girls had no intention of walking all the way across to the end of the bridge but his unpredictable forward movement gave them no choice.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Even if the girls were more than 1/2 way across on their way back to the trail when he suddenly began to walk toward them on the bridge, if he was veering from side to side with unsteady movement I think most people would turn around to avoid crossing paths in a situation like that, on the high bridge with no railings. If that’s what happened it’s possible the girls had no intention of walking all the way across to the end of the bridge but his unpredictable forward movement gave them no choice.

JMO

Right, we don't know their intentions. But we know he walked on the bridge without waiting for them to get off, knowing, likely, he was breaking local bridge protocol and that others wouldn't also be going on the bridge. He had some time, but not unlimited time to coerce them to go where he directed.

I know people are sick of hearing my theory, but I think he knew where to find them. It's really a good spot to intimidate and control a couple of young teens. And, if it didn't work out, he'd have a walk in the park that day with nobody the wiser.

jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

Right, we don't know their intentions. But we know he walked on the bridge without waiting for them to get off, knowing, likely, he was breaking local bridge protocol and that others wouldn't also be going on the bridge. He had some time, but not unlimited time to coerce them to go where he directed.

I know people are sick of hearing my theory, but I think he knew where to find them. It's really a good spot to intimidate and control a couple of young teens. And, if it didn't work out, he'd have a walk in the park that day with nobody the wiser.

jmo

I’ve wondered how long the girls spent on the bridge deck taking photos, maybe goofing off, just having innocent fun with each other the way teen girls do. According to the timelines, getting dropped off just after 1:30pm, SC at 2:07, the FBI billboards eluding to the video being taken at about 2:30 iirc, the girls could’ve been on the bridge deck for well over 1/2 hour. The bridges height would afford high visibility of the two from various surrounding locations.

So leaves the question - were Libby and Abby being closely watched while they were on the bridge, not realizing it? It’s possible this was when they were first noticed.

Because even if he hadn’t preplanned a murder in advance, possibly by watching them for a time he became pervertedly aroused and chose to capitalize on the opportunity. As you say, walking toward them on the bridge using intimidation would be all that was required to force them ahead to the far end, a more isolated area away from the trail.

Only my speculation....

 

[Inthedetails]

I’ve wondered how long the girls spent on the bridge deck taking photos, maybe goofing off, just having innocent fun with each other the way teen girls do. According to the timelines, getting dropped off just after 1:30pm, SC at 2:07, the FBI billboards eluding to the video being taken at about 2:30 iirc, the girls could’ve been on the bridge deck for well over 1/2 hour. The bridges height would afford high visibility of the two from various surrounding locations.

So leaves the question - were Libby and Abby being closely watched while they were on the bridge, not realizing it? It’s possible this was when they were first noticed.

Because even if he hadn’t preplanned a murder in advance, possibly by watching them for a time he became pervertedly aroused and chose to capitalize on the opportunity. As you say, walking toward them on the bridge using intimidation would be all that was required to force them ahead to the far end, a more isolated area away from the trail.

Only my speculation....

Right. He wouldn't need a weapon - the height and danger of the bridge was the threat. Imagine the fear. Awful.
jmo
jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

Right. He wouldn't need a weapon - the height and danger of the bridge was the threat. Imagine the fear. Awful.
jmo
jmo

It is awful, terrifying. How a beautiful old historic bridge, a sunshine filled afternoon, the smell of fresh air, probably birds chirping amidst sounds of the water flowing in the creek...how that could become such a horrible site of tragedy to two innocent girls is beyond where I’m willing to allow my imagination to go. Other than to say only a disgusting, despicable creature would be capable of such a deplorable act.

 

[sunshineray]

It could be that they met him before and he appeared later and startled them enough to video tape. Sounds like a good explanation. I wondered about that mostly. After a friend of mine mentioned the murders and video first thing i asked her was why did they record him when he was so far. Someone walking towards you is not enough to set an alarm in one's head. Somehow always thought that was the strangest part of all, why she started to record him from afar.


If they felt scared and followed wouldn't they alert families or authorities? Is it a normal thing to record? I don't mean to imply anything im simply asking. If they were able to post a snapchat from the bridge there had to be some sort of reception there.

When I enlarge and watch the video loop of the killer on the bridge, I think he's either singing outloud or talking to himself. It's possible his out of the norm behavior (maybe seen by the girls before they crossed the bridge) tus what alerted Libby to take her video. ISP link to that video is below

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation