Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

Here is the old audio in a loop:
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Some posts have been removed as off topic. Hopefully the following clarifies.

For those enquiring about the use of initials, reference is made in TOS under Name Calling and Derogatory Name Variations by simply stating "Initials may be used, and are encouraged".

There are rules and then there are policies. WS policy is to NOT use full names so that the names of innocent people are not forever etched in stone on a crime sleuthing website when they may have had nothing to do with the actual crime. It could also have potential legal ramifications that nobody needs. The policy has been that we can use full names for a victim and a POI/suspect who has been officially named by LE but for most others we use initials. It is a matter of discretion and WSers have been adhering to that policy for about 20 years now and it has served us well, so it is very possible for members to get used to it. If we can get to know members by their anonymous user IDs such as 1973Aplus8, surely we can get used to initials used throughout a specific case.

Example: One thread some of us are familiar with, a person not only self-identified, but also stated they knew they were a POI although LE had not named them as such. That highly qualified person subsequently reported they were having difficulty getting employment because their name was showing up to potential employers in google searches connected to discussion of a horrific murder.

This is Thread #123 for Abby and Libby and we've have done alright so far. If someone wants to complete the list of initials and abbreviations, please submit it to us via private message and we will include it in future Opening Posts. Otherwise, please stay on topic in this thread.

If you have questions, please do not discuss them on the thread so we don't derail the thread with off topic conversation. You may private message a Mod or Admin for clarification.

Thanks.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Other than a similarity to the Delphi sketch, there is no indication from LE that Martrell Weaver is considered a POI or suspect in the murders of Libby and Abby. We've been down this road before where there are similarities between sketches and other individuals but there ends up being no connection.

Please do not continue to discuss him unless/until we find out that LE is investigating him as a POI or suspect in relation to the Delphi case.

As usual, members may sleuth behind the scenes and discuss via private messaging where up to 20 members can be added to the private conversation. Just don't post your findings on this public thread.

If there is any change, we will review it if/when that happens.

Thanks.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is becoming rife with rumor posts and creating extra work for our Moderators in having to review and trying to determine what is known fact and what is rumor.

RUMORS ARE NOT ALLOWED.

If you can't link information to Websleuths approves sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

This is Websleuths folks. Take time to do your homework. Please don't just throw stuff out there. Before you post something make doubly sure what you are stating is FACT as we know it from MSM, LE or another approved Websleuths source.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

Basic Websleuths folks .. no social media rumors ! Sometimes they're right, most times they're wrong.

If members want to talk about it in private messaging, that's one thing, but please don't bring rumors to WS.

Thanks.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. There are sex offenders everywhere and unless there is a known connection to this case, or LE indicates there may be some connection, please don't bring them into this discussion.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. There are sex offenders everywhere and unless there is a known connection to this case, or LE indicates there may be some connection, please don't bring them into this discussion.

 

[Angels27]

Food for thought.

If after 4 years, the locals in Delphi, and the brightest minds in federal law enforcement and possibly Hollywood video technology, could not figure out who this guy is, maybe the girls didn’t recognize him either. Maybe he was known to them, but for some reason: distance, disguise, having their heads turned, etc. they didn’t recognize him, but maybe not because he was a stranger. I read somewhere that Libby may have been recording while her back was turned to the guy. That would make sense. If he saw the phone, he would have taken it.

And that’s another thing. Why didn’t he take the phone. Was he in a hurry. Surely he knew young girls would have phones with them. Weird he didn’t even think about that.

 

[Yemelyan]

Food for thought.

If after 4 years, the locals in Delphi, and the brightest minds in federal law enforcement and possibly Hollywood video technology, could not figure out who this guy is, maybe the girls didn’t recognize him either. Maybe he was known to them, but for some reason: distance, disguise, having their heads turned, etc. they didn’t recognize him, but maybe not because he was a stranger. I read somewhere that Libby may have been recording while her back was turned to the guy. That would make sense. If he saw the phone, he would have taken it.

And that’s another thing. Why didn’t he take the phone. Was he in a hurry. Surely he knew young girls would have phones with them. Weird he didn’t even think about that.

We know the phone was found in the same general area as the girls but we don't know exactly where so I think it's a mistake to assume it was still directly on Libby's person by the time the murder occurred. It's possible the phone was not in a visible location and he may have looked for it but not been able to find it before he felt it was dangerous to stay longer.

We know one thing about child abduction murderers specifically; the Keppel and Brown study found that about a quarter of them return to the body disposal site of their victims (which for the Delphi case was apparently the same place that they were killed). Though I think this is a less likely possibility, it could be that the killer of Abby and Libby thought there may be an opportunity for him to return at some later point to re-visit the crime and/or look for the phone or other evidence left behind. He may have misjudged how concealed they were or how urgent the search response might be/how quickly they would be found.

 

[TL4S]

Food for thought.

If after 4 years, the locals in Delphi, and the brightest minds in federal law enforcement and possibly Hollywood video technology, could not figure out who this guy is, maybe the girls didn’t recognize him either. Maybe he was known to them, but for some reason: distance, disguise, having their heads turned, etc. they didn’t recognize him, but maybe not because he was a stranger. I read somewhere that Libby may have been recording while her back was turned to the guy. That would make sense. If he saw the phone, he would have taken it.

And that’s another thing. Why didn’t he take the phone. Was he in a hurry. Surely he knew young girls would have phones with them. Weird he didn’t even think about that.

My own opinion is that nobody, including LE, has been able to identify him based off the camera video because it is simply not of good enough quality. L did what she could do without drawing attention to her actions, and she did a good job, too. I don't think he had any clue he was being recorded, which is likely why he didn't bother taking the phone, and how his image ultimately ended up plastered all over billboards and the internet. JMO

Unfortunately, his face is nothing but a blob of shifting pixels, IMO (I cannot see any of the things people have claimed to see over the years). But I stick with LE that SOMEBODY has to recognize him. Not from the pixelated face, but the general clothing, figure, etc. The fact that they haven't come forward with it does not mean they don't know (or suspect).

MOO, from comments made by family and LE, I don't believe the girls knew him.

 

[janewall]

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...ets-55-years-in-death-of-woman-found-in-shack

Interesting. Found in shack. Not sure if we can post about GK on here or not.

GK has not been named a POI in the murders of Abby and Libby, so no. His victim in the case from your link has her own thread on WS where he and his accomplices can be discussed. Found Deceased - IN - Newton County, Fem, 30 Mar 2019 - Nicole Bowen

 

[Angels27]

Re the “guys, down the hill” audio. I don’t hear anything in between. It’s clear they are two separate bits cut off then started again. imo. I don’t see how people are hearing “oh my god’ or anything else. There’s nothing there. It’s just blank. It’s like 2 separate recordings with just dead space in between.

 

[photographer4]

Food for thought.

If after 4 years, the locals in Delphi, and the brightest minds in federal law enforcement and possibly Hollywood video technology, could not figure out who this guy is, maybe the girls didn’t recognize him either. Maybe he was known to them, but for some reason: distance, disguise, having their heads turned, etc. they didn’t recognize him, but maybe not because he was a stranger. I read somewhere that Libby may have been recording while her back was turned to the guy. That would make sense. If he saw the phone, he would have taken it.

And that’s another thing. Why didn’t he take the phone. Was he in a hurry. Surely he knew young girls would have phones with them. Weird he didn’t even think about that.

RBBM
That you *know* of! He may have been aware of the phone. He may not have been.

If he was aware of it, he may not have imagined he was the star in their video, or maybe he was acutely aware and didn't care. Heck, he may have recorded something of his own for LE to find later (sights, sounds... ) who knows.

 

[photographer4]

We know the phone was found in the same general area as the girls but we don't know exactly where so I think it's a mistake to assume it was still directly on Libby's person by the time the murder occurred. It's possible the phone was not in a visible location and he may have looked for it but not been able to find it before he felt it was dangerous to stay longer.

We know one thing about child abduction murderers specifically; the Keppel and Brown study found that about a quarter of them return to the body disposal site of their victims (which for the Delphi case was apparently the same place that they were killed). Though I think this is a less likely possibility, it could be that the killer of Abby and Libby thought there may be an opportunity for him to return at some later point to re-visit the crime and/or look for the phone or other evidence left behind. He may have misjudged how concealed they were or how urgent the search response might be/how quickly they would be found.

By all accounts, Libby was super smart! She may have hidden it in a pocket, or she may even have tossed it without him realizing she'd done so - its possible he couldn't find it, but LE did!

 

[Boxer]

RBBM
That you *know* of! He may have been aware of the phone. He may not have been.

If he was aware of it, he may not have imagined he was the star in their video, or maybe he was acutely aware and didn't care. Heck, he may have recorded something of his own for LE to find later (sights, sounds... ) who knows.

I have always hoped she threw it with a strong softball arm into the thick leaves or the creek and BG decided searching was useless.

 

[sunshineray]

From the Robert Ives interview:

"there was a lot more physical evidence than at that crime scene."

I'm just going back and re-reading this transcript. This comment jumped out at me. Where do you suppose, and he says a 'lot' more evidence, just where would that evidence be if not at that crime scene?

Indeed, some have speculated maybe he was referring to the immediate CS where the girls were found, so the surrounding area, the woods, the bridge, the trail, right?

But what about in town? Or at a place that was searched early on?

Any way, what could this evidence possibly be, seeing how it was a 'lot' of it?

And he goes immediately in to this "And it’s probably not what you would imagine, or what people think that I’m talking about, it’s probably not. And so because of unique circumstances, which all unique circumstances of a crime are a sort-of ‘signature’"

Was there something set up in the woods prior to the murders?
Was there something left behind, or planted, somewhere along the trail, or along the creek?

I admit, I'm baffled by the comment.

I think most likely he meant the obvious you've stated...on the bridge, on the path down the hill (as Kelsei has said the ground was noticeable disturbed), the crossing at the creek bank on both sides (there's a photo of a detective on the crime scene side inspecting the bank) and then eyewitnesses's testimonial evidence to the killer's appearance (coming, lurking or going) AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

IF the perp/s was/were at the area from noon to 17h (the car at the abandoned building!), only then I can imagine, that there was a lot of evidence (more than that at the crime scene on RL land).

According to what Anna Williams was told and then relayed on her last podcast, 50+ people were out and about in that area, that day.

 

[sunshineray]

Please excuse me if this has already been mentioned before (I'm new to this thread) but I get the feeling this isn't the first kills for the guy. Has there been any discussion about this aspect?

Yes there's been much talk about that. Being that this killer is still at large and barring that there was some terrible mishap with collection or chain of control wise with evidence left, this killer seems to have been careful and quick in his actions. I don't think there was a lot of nervousness or panic, before or after he committed the murders. I think his cold-bloodedness kept mistakes at a bare minimum.

 

[Angels27]

Popped on to make 2 quick comments.

1. I just started researching this case after the HLN doc last month, and the deeper I dig the more possible suspects I realize there are. So it is critical that LE gets it right. Imagine if they rushed and brought in the wrong guy and the killer was still out there.

2. I personally think the odds that the perp was some random psycho killer are less than 1%. My money is on there being some connection, direct or indirect.

 

[sunshineray]

Food for thought.

If after 4 years, the locals in Delphi, and the brightest minds in federal law enforcement and possibly Hollywood video technology, could not figure out who this guy is, maybe the girls didn’t recognize him either. Maybe he was known to them, but for some reason: distance, disguise, having their heads turned, etc. they didn’t recognize him, but maybe not because he was a stranger. I read somewhere that Libby may have been recording while her back was turned to the guy. That would make sense. If he saw the phone, he would have taken it.

And that’s another thing. Why didn’t he take the phone. Was he in a hurry. Surely he knew young girls would have phones with them. Weird he didn’t even think about that.

It was recently said in the HLN show that once LE called off the search the fire was called to bring lightning down to the Monon High Bridge area because one of the girl's phone was pinging there. LE and some fire department personnel returned to search and try to find it.

It's possible Libby dropped it at some point, maybe with purpose, near the crime scene. Why it couldn't lead them to their bodies is a question. Maybe the battery ran out during that search.