Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. St. Anthony2017

    St. Anthony2017 Jax2019

    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Did anyone notice that at the end of the PEOPLE Investigates they did not post the number for the tipline or ask anyone with information about the killer to call the ISP or FBI? I hope this means that they do have a suspect and are about to make an arrest.
     


  2. St. Anthony2017

    St. Anthony2017 Jax2019

    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Or had a work vehicle used by multiple shifts.
     
  3. St. Anthony2017

    St. Anthony2017 Jax2019

    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Or had a work vehicle used by multiple shifts.
     
    minazoe likes this.
  4. photographer4

    photographer4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    6,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Someone pointed this out to me as well - it seems as though they STOPPED asking for tips / posting that number when they released the second sketch. Not sure how accurate that is, but it seems to be the case for sure with the show you referenced. I think they didn't share the number or ask for tips because they don't want to have to investigate false leads at this point. They know what they need, and they may even know who they need it from.
     
  5. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,047
    Likes Received:
    43,841
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the stand alone sentence doesn’t place it into context. RL was admonished by the judge for breaking the law, specifically his drinking and driving. His friend claimed the reason he fell off the wagon was because of the stress pertaining to the discovery of the bodies on his property. It appears to me RL is referring to the same excuse with somewhat of a sarcastic retort.

    BBM

    When asked about his future, Logan told the judge, “maybe in the future someone won’t be murdered in my back yard.”...”

    Tips continue to come in 8 weeks after Delphi double murder | wthr.com
     
  6. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,047
    Likes Received:
    43,841
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you thinking of comments by some of us noticing the lack of emphasis on the 1st sketch during the 2nd anniversary press conference in Feb/19. It was Apr/19 when the 2nd sketch was released.

    I don’t recall LE ever stopping the asking for tips and I certainly wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on a People’s show. They’re in the business of entertainment, not public service. Links about how to go about sending in a tip are everywhere.

    ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation

    LIBERTY GERMAN — FBI

    Contact – Abby and Libby.org
     
  7. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,302
    Likes Received:
    45,283
    Trophy Points:
    113
    gregjrichards, Marzipan and kai like this.
  8. Jerrod

    Jerrod Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    2,219
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Actually, they did:
     

    Attached Files:

  9. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

    Messages:
    1,985
    Likes Received:
    678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you for providing the link.
    In my post #728 i posted a strange theory. But I knew there was something weird at the site where the girls were found. And according to the link the former prosecutor mentioned...
    Former prosecutor in unsolved Delphi rail track murders of two teens says the killer left behind at least three 'signatures' at the 'odd' crime scene which had a 'lot of physical evidence'....I certainly believe that now.

    These 3 signatures would be something only the killer would know. Or someone else whom he told. Which I don't believe he has told anyone. I never believed it was simply, .l....Guys down the hill, across the water and then killed them where found. That's to simple. And according to the former prosecutor it looked staged. Which i believe that also.

    I Still think they were drowned.//and or the water played a big part in the crime scene in some aspect and then tossed them on the bank. Someone on meth or another simulate would have no trouble drowning two young girls, one girl in each hand as they entered the water. Would certainly had prevented either one from screaming if he killed one at a time. Though one could ague he taped their mouths shut before crossing the water to kill them on the other side. I just don't believe they were killed on the other side, But put there after death.

    Those three signatures aka calling cards, tell me the killer is following closely the investigation and probably reliving the killings through updates and chat sites.

    I also believe he took items from the girls, to have a physical remembrance of the crime.

    This was nothing more than a trill kill. Two instead of one. Double the adrenaline boost he must had been experiencing,.

    Killers i read about state, during the killing they enter into a surreal world. Where all there senses are focused on the killing at hand. Things slow down and they sense nothing of the outside world during there killing moments. There was much rage and anger. No one kills in a case like this with joy and happiness. Though I am sure some do.

    As we see the possible killer on the bridge. We see he has not much with him to stage a scene. Other than perhaps something in his pouch he was wearing on the front of his pants.

    The fact this was done during the daylight hours is brazen,. He did not spend much time there, he did what he wanted and then left through that cemetery.

    I dont think this guy is stupid. At one time in hjis life he may had been on the path of being successful at something, but something happened along the way that turned him into what he believed was a failure in life, and lived a simple life, always thinking of what could have been.

    Perhaps some college or a trade school, but something beyond high school as far as education.

    Probably not married, living alone, not many if any friends like he may have had in the past.

    A loner now, possibly a drinker to kill the pain he feels from his failures in life. Probably does go to bars, and hopes to listen to others talk about the murders without him getting involved, especially since there is video of him now.

    Those clothes he was wearing im sure have all been destroyed now. Probably burnt never to be retrieved again. He would live in a modest home, nothing fancy or real expensive. Could be a mobile home at a mobile park or private property.

    He may have inherited some land through a will, and place a mobile home on it, or inherited a small house but nothing fancy.

    I dont think hes a big guy, though looking at him on the bridge one may think that. He was wearing lalyers of clothes i think with baggy pants on. Which made him appear much bigger. He probably wearing a beard now.

    Being caught on video has made him lay low for 4 years. THAT in itself may have prevent5ed some one else from being murdered . To close for comfort, plus he got two instead of one. I t5hink hes satisfied wit55h that number.

    Do I think he is local, living there in delphi.......NO, I don't. ;BUT...........perhaps within two hours from that place, 100 miles or so in either direction. And probably lives in a mobile home on some private property or his own.

    If it had been just one, we probably would still be looking for the person as missing. I think he had a plan to take one away back to his place, but since there were two he just killed them there. Much harder to travel with two young girls, than a single woman or girl.

    He definitely left his calling card/cards. Probably caring them in his patch. Which would mean perhaps he planned on not taking them anywhere, one or two, but killing them there and leaving his signature calling cards. Could have been a regular deck of cards, or even tarot cards. I think he did leave something on the bodies only the killer would know.



    THE ABOVE ALL MOO AND SPECULATION. NOTHING POSTED AS BEING FACT UNLESS OTHERWISE KNOWN TO BE. All SPECULATION AND ASSUMPTIONS. UNFOUNDED THOERIES. GUESSING ETC.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  10. UnapologeticallyAspie

    UnapologeticallyAspie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    5,765
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Or stole another vehicle’s plates.
     
    St. Anthony2017, TL4S and news buff like this.
  11. news buff

    news buff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    727
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Just saying where I saw the term staging. Is it not an approved source?
     
  12. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,047
    Likes Received:
    43,841
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It’s not a factual source of “staging” occurring if it’s only the reporter summarizing Ive’s comments from the podcast. I notice that sentence isn’t a quote, it appears to be the reporter’s opinion. The question would be, does the reporter know the definition of “signatures” or do they think it only involves physical objects left at the scene as a type of “signed by the killer”? Because signatures and staging are not synonymous at crime scenes.


    BBM

    Former prosecutor in unsolved Delphi murders of two teens says they had signature elements | Daily Mail Online

    'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.

    Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.

    However, Ives raised the possibility that elements of the scene had been staged in an attempt to trick investigators by sending them down a false path.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  13. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,036
    Likes Received:
    17,664
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bolded by me.

    For anyone wondering, signatures are rarely objects. The "calling card" of a serial killer, for example, is probably not going to be an actual card. It is only called by this term because of the tendency of certain offenders to repeatedly act out specific behaviors before, during, or after their crimes that go above and beyond what was necessary to carry out the crime itself.

    The signature aspect of a crime almost always refers to offender behaviors, not objects brought to the scene of the crime. The signature has to do with the inner emotional motivations of the offender. In sexually-motivated murders, where signatures are most commonly seen, the behaviors that make up the signature represent the underlying sexual needs of the offender. In fact, almost all signature behavior is sexually linked. The signatures that are seen typically fall into one of these behavioral categories: an offender repeatedly engaging in a specific order of sexual activity; using a specific type of binding; a pattern of similar type injuries; displaying the body for degradation or shock value; torturing and/or mutilating his victim; and engaging in some form of ritualistic behavior (these normally have to do with paraphilias).

    As stated repeatedly in the Delphi threads, staging doesn't have anything to do with the presence or absence of signature behavior. As used by criminologists and profilers, staging is when the offender alters the crime scene for the primary purpose of misleading the investigation. Another possible form of staging is directing attention away from the actual offender onto an innocent or unknown person. It doesn't mean "bringing a lot of stuff in a kill kit," "scoping out the scene ahead of time," or "planning what he is going to do."

    This is an article that is written in a very accessible fashion and clearly explains the difference between M.O., signature, and staging: Serial Killers: Modus Operandi, Signature, Staging & Posing

    From that article: The FBI profiler may also encounter deliberate alterations of the crime scene or the victim’s body position at the scene of the murder. If these alterations are made for the purpose of confusing or otherwise misleading criminal investigators, then they are called staging and they are considered to be part of the killer’s MO. On the other hand, if the crime scene alterations only serve the fantasy needs of the offender, then they are considered part of the signature and they are referred to as posing.
     
  14. Jerry_Rikshaw

    Jerry_Rikshaw New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I think those flashes are just the person who posted the video taking the screenshots.
     
    FrostedGlass likes this.
  15. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,072
    Likes Received:
    13,216
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So a single set of footprints, spotted by a firefighter-searcher (info from ID show), were found and followed to CS. I'd think, being that they were singular prints (info from your link), they must have been across the creek and made by the killer while leaving the CS. JMO
     
  16. Ravenmoon

    Ravenmoon "Justice is a dish best served cold"

    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    3,427
    Trophy Points:
    93
    The "signature aspects" of this crime are even more chilling to me now than they were before I read and processed exactly what they mean. I did have an understanding to a degree- but now, I am quite devastated to know that there were at least THREE signatures left here. That is some dark, disturbing information.
    While it is obvious that that this person is as low an individual that society can produce- I cannot fathom how someone is so depraved that they can have so many perverse qualities.
    Whether this person has killed before- or since is a frequent topic of conversation- I think it is equally important to realize that he WILL hurt someone again. I feel certain that he has a lack of impulse control in that respect now that he has acted out this horrible reality.
    For lack of a better term- I feel "woke" knowing that this level of filth walks among unsuspecting people in everyday life.

    AMOO JMO MOO
    EBM
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  17. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,072
    Likes Received:
    13,216
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ISP Carter saying the person who knows killer is living in "excruciating fear" for their safety.
    That's a very specific and quite strong word to use. He didn't say terrible, great or even horrible fear. Excruciating...like he knows for certain, has seen this person's living hell created by their agonizing fear. Again certain language makes me think the same...they know who it is they need to talk. AJMO
     
  18. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,047
    Likes Received:
    43,841
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you know the source of this? I don’t quite get it because if DC, the Superintendent of Indiana State Police, knows a person who knows who the killer is and also is aware that person is living in “excruciating fear”, why is he not offering full protection to that person? IIRC in the past he already committed to doing so.
     
  19. news buff

    news buff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    727
    Trophy Points:
    93
    This just seems unsettling to me. Objectivity has been tossed aside. And Carter "owes" MP. MP "cherishes" their friendship?
     
  20. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    3,274
    Trophy Points:
    93
    That was the point I planned to make. FBI and specifically Georgia FBI were responsible for the change of direction in 2019. Then the presser was butchered so badly by Carter I'm convinced the FBI was irate and implored Indiana to quickly offer the clarifications, including that the older sketch was no longer a person of interest. But Doug Carter doesn't want to go that route and he has steadily persuaded others from ISP to embrace the combo platter.

    Otherwise, regarding People Magazine Investigates:

    * IMO, you've really got to be a contortionist to watch that program and conclude they have any clue who did it

    * Hour program that was wasted to half hour value via all the senseless examination of the non-suspects. I fast forwarded through all of that garbage. Delphi has never had a decent suspect. Why did People Magazine think it had to follow its standard format of traipsing through all of the names? I kept thinking that the wasted time in those segments was symbolic of Delphi case examination in general. Sites like this one and the Reddit subreddit that don't allow doxing offer vastly superior content than ones desperately trying to solve the case by name

    * The female hosts were good. The one guy Chris Harris had remarkable propensity to screw up every time reference by 15-40 minutes

    * The recreations were very poor and misleading and should have been skipped. I'm referring to the footprints and Libby's shoe. Basically every time the show used a homemade visual it erred. At least they picked some good photos, including the best angle of the crime scene, from just above the shelf

    * Most interesting aspects were glimpses of the FBI computer, and Leazenby later emphasizing that local sex offenders were checked first. That's why I've always said that Leazenby thinks first and foremost of the local creeps. He can't imagine Bridge Guy outside that group

    * I didn't know Libby tried golf. I was impressed to hear that. I'm not surprised we haven't heard more about it in four years. Tough game. Very easy to embarrass yourself. Skilled athletes who excel in everything else can absolutely butcher the golf swing and give up quickly. That's particularly prevalent among digital generations.

    * Someone asked if the theater ramp was homemade. It looked natural to me. But keep in mind I visited during fall with heavy leaf cover. Terrain wasn't easy to decipher.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice