Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    13,593
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In the recently broadcast HLN show on the Delphi murders, while the search was called off officially, many officials remained in those woods searching. Libby's phone (I believe it was Libby's) was pinging in the early morning hours and Sheriff Leazenby called the fire house to get better lighting down at the search area to try and find it.

    I've never understood officially calling it off either under the cold weather circumstances and the missing being kids not dressed well for those overnight temps.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2021


  2. FrostedGlass

    FrostedGlass Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    4,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe LE didn't think they were in the woods. I remember one of the grandfathers speculating where they might have been.
     
  3. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    19,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not saying I agree with the decision, but there were two main factors IMO, based on interviews in Down the Hill and the HLN special:

    1. Until they received info about the ping from Libby's cell phone well after midnight, LE and Fire did not think the girls were still near the bridge. See TL's comments in Episode 2 of DTH about "the twist" - Carroll County had always been successful in finding its missing people and the authorities thought they had a handle on what missing teens do. As AW said "the police officer told me....the late movie gets out in Logansport right about now" (paraphrasing). LE weren't expecting foul play given the crime rates in Delphi, what they were able to discern about the girls' behavior, etc.

    2. Overnight conditions were dangerous for searchers. In Episode 2 of DTH we learn that the fire chief (who was a close friend of MP - he sheds tears on this episode thinking about the fact that "he {MP} only ever asked me one thing {to find the girls} and I couldn't give it to him" - was involved in the decision to stop searching and he cited the fact that the terrain was dangerous to search even in daylight hours. There was heavy fog forecasted to come in the overnight/dawn. IMO they feared a searcher would fall off the bridge itself in the darkness or they would have some other kind of serious injury to deal with if they sanctioned people searching all night. They knew, however, that they couldn't stop the family/close friends and MP kept searching all night along with others.
     
  4. sandy_80

    sandy_80 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    1,499
    Trophy Points:
    93
    that's not very probable
    first you have two sketches with different sets of witnesses
    le doesnt seem to be sure which witness to trust or whether they saw bg at all .. with different statements as usual
    the first sketch was made by both witness description and the artist looking at the video image .. which might have created conflict of opinions in the end results
    so my opinion is that le are no longer in contact with any witness .. and that no witness actually saw bg clearly to recognise him from a lineup
     
  5. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,869
    Likes Received:
    24,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    MOO the search was called off because LE thought they were runaways or spending the night at the home of a friend.

    Because of their ages and the lack of violent crime and feeling of relative safety in the small town.
     
  6. minazoe

    minazoe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,293
    Likes Received:
    8,359
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I feel the faces are essentially "made up' at this point..and if the perp matches the second sketch and not the first or vice versa, he can then say it's mistaken identity and he is being arrested based on an erroneous sketch.

    I feel like a lawyer could use this double sketch thing down the line..or maybe anything based on the sketches won't be allowed.. I hope we can argue these points someday soon.

    mOO
     
  7. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,102
    Likes Received:
    15,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO, the change in sketches, along with some of LE's comments about them, only seem questionable if LE has already identified the killer. If they have not, then they therefore do not know what he looks like or can fully verify which one, or to what extent, each sketch resembles him.

    LE has stated that they do not know if the DNA they have belongs to the killer. This is another statement that is treated as controversial, but imo, only points to the fact that they have not ID'd the killer and need someone to come forward with his identity so they can use the evidence they have to prove him a match. JMO
     
  8. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    19,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They are essentially made up and they always were...like all police composite sketches, they are only an artist's interpretation of someone else's memory.

    No one is arrested or convicted based only on resemblance to a composite sketch. The sketch is only to jog people's memories enough that, hopefully, a tip can come in with a person's name. The identity will be used to determine if enough evidence exists to further investigate the tipped person.

    When/if the Delphi killer is found, some will say "he looks nothing like the sketches" and others will inevitably say "it's eerie how much he looks like the sketches." It is all subjective. IMO
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  9. StarryStarryNight

    StarryStarryNight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    14,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LE can’t even decide how or if either one of the sketches relates to the case. If they are of any importance LE has rendered them useless by their seemingly constant attempts to clarify and reclassify them. By now, they are pretty worthless in my opinion.
     
    MistyWaters, Seenit, JnRyan and 4 others like this.
  10. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    686
    Trophy Points:
    113
    not very clear, but its there.
    photos of face taken from a 54 second video
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
    DeDee, JWSleuth, FromGermany1 and 5 others like this.
  11. PaulaDC

    PaulaDC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    14,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hey, your post got me curious what old 90's duck clothing was, check out these hoodies! Camo top, hand pocket brown! Interesting!
    Google Image Result for https://www.outdooralabama.com/sites/default/files/styles/full_size/public/Rainer%20articles/Youth%20waterfowl%202018.jpg?itok=RVHO1Mze
     
    DeDee, Seenit, Ekliptika and 2 others like this.
  12. PaulaDC

    PaulaDC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    14,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Seenit, JnRyan and Laughing like this.
  13. Laughing

    Laughing Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,866
    Likes Received:
    28,754
    Trophy Points:
    113
    [​IMG]
    image from OutdoorAlabama.com

    bbm

    This what you wanted? Interesting, the two fabrics -- pattern, color, texture. Hhhmmm.
     
    Seenit, sunshineray, janewall and 3 others like this.
  14. reallylikereally

    reallylikereally Former Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    3
    New to the case so I apologize in advance for any redundant terrain vis a vis my inquiries. Thx.

    Would anybody happen to know how Abby got to Libby and the Patty's house on the 12th for the sleep over? Did Ana drop her off, or Derek, or was she picked up by either Becky or Mike or Kelsi? Or somehow otherwise?

    I'm thinking that BG could have spotted either Abby, Libby or both some days/weeks before and if so then perhaps he was surveilling (voyeuristic stalking would probably be closer to what I'm implying) them, and then either followed them as they left Mike and Becky's that afternoon or catfished (I know this has supposedly been dismissed as a possibility) them to the bridge while he lay in wait

    Have any of the families mentioned any odd occurrences that now really stand out in the days/weeks leading up to the bridge ambush?

    What I would be most interested in, however, is an answer to my first question...how did Abby get to Libby's on the 12th?

    Thanks.
     
  15. Hopperrr

    Hopperrr Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    13
    It would play into his overall methodology (IMO). I imagine he fancies himself a hunter: someone coming to an area popular with adolescents, on a day they were not scheduled to be in school, using a route/circuit he is likely familiar with, and quite literally cornering the girls in an area beyond escape.

    I don’t have any media pieces on this - but I feel like the idea of him being a duck/game/something hunter was floated around? Possibly because where the girls were found was popular with hunters?

    All JMO
     
  16. Imvp2

    Imvp2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    775
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Anyone have a somewhat educated guess on the type handgun, appearing to be "impressed" on his right coat pocket?
     
    minazoe, janewall and JnRyan like this.
  17. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    971
    Likes Received:
    3,589
    Trophy Points:
    93
    After watching the People Magazine Investigates show about the Delphi murders, I think it was ok. There was not a lot of new information, but LE said that the first sketch, the second sketch, the audio and video should all be considered when looking for a possible suspect.

    When you look at the case from LE perspective, you realize they had to do something. The sketches themselves are from people they think may have witnessed this man on the bridge. Are either of the sketches possibly this bridge guy? That is your opinion.

    The one thing I have noticed looking at cases is that people tend to follow whatever the prevailing LE theory is at the time. So if LE thinks it was a younger man driving a white car parked next to a building that was close to the trails, people tend to follow that information. The one thing that keeps hope alive is the video Liberty German got of this man walking on the bridge. Someday the right person might see it and call in the tip to police.

    But as time passes by that last theory becomes the theory until enough time has passed and people forget because the media presence is no longer there and discussing the same thing over and over becomes boring. Then you have to start all over again.

    There was this double murder case that happened back on February 13, 2017 involving two girls who were out walking the trails in Delphi, Indiana. Have you heard of it?
     
  18. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,207
    Likes Received:
    15,817
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I believe if I had enough detail to tell what kind of gun this killer had - IF he even had a gun - I'd have enough detail for many out there to recognize his face.
     
  19. PaulaDC

    PaulaDC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    14,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes. Thank you. Just another perspective on that sweatshirt/fanny pack conversation.
     
  20. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    13,593
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think the local LE gave enough weigh that night to what the Patty's were telling them about Libby. BP very quickly knew, when DG called her and said LG wasn't answering her phone, that something was amiss. She tried LG's phone numerous times and then called her husband at work, who left immediately to come search at trails. BP stated not answering her phone was something Libby would never do, that she was very responsible about that.

    As far as the bridge being a dangerous spot at night, in the dark, they'd just need to post an officer at each end. The rest of the searching could have continued with spot lights (hand held or generated even by vehicles parked) and led by professionals. AJMO

    We know now it wouldn't have helped because the girls were already gone but that was unknown then. I can't imagine the desolation the family members felt being told LE was officially calling off their help overnight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice