Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    I figure that when he figured out they were unaccompanied juveniles, he thought this was an opportunity to really be famous and to scare people. He accomplished a lot, in his mind, by what he did that day.

    Yes I meant "pairs of juveniles" by strangers since 1974.

    JMO

    JMO
     


  2. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the graph on this page, 30 females who were all juveniles were abducted by strangers in 1997. 15 of victims were assaulted, sexually or otherwise. But the statistics are not accumulative up to the present date.

    Even though the legal definition of “abduction” involves forcing victims from one location to another, I don’t think this case can fairly be compared to abduction statistics considering the girls were also murder victims, their bodies found not far from the bridge.

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure...he-Victim-and-Type-of-Location_fig3_246605161
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
  3. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    MOO there are elements that should be addressed, from the search for two missing girls being called off at midnight, to no heat sensitive scanning helicopter being brought in and blood hounds being sent home before the suspect's in and out routes were established.
    It all bears looking at.
     
  4. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I’m certain it bears looking at and I’d be surprised if it hasn’t already. I think the main emphasis as far as the public is concerned should continue to be identifying the killer and media coverage has been extensive in that regard. Otherwise does it really matter what we think should’ve been done when the girls were first reported missing? How would that assist in this crime being solved?

    I can understand the search being a larger issue if it was determined the girls had survived throughout the night but we know that wasn’t so.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
  5. minazoe

    minazoe Well-Known Member

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    the girls were abducted. they did not go willingly to their deaths. the moment you coerce by threat or with a weapon to move to another location, it is kidnapping.

    mOO
     
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  6. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Yes but not all juveniles who are kidnapped are also murdered. Statistics also cannot tell us how many teens are missing as a result of an abduction by a person unknown to them who then later murdered them. Regardless, statistics do not prove who was the killer here. Whether it was a stranger or someone known to them, it still was an equally senseless act IMO
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
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  7. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 I'm the same as always.

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    Anna met him outside, afaik, so we don't know, if he ever went inside the market/store or sat in his car only.
     
  8. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    It is an unsolved crime with witnesses, video, voice audio and probably a shoe print.
    A suspect sketch done at the time of the crime was then released years later to supplant what had been released before.
    Is there more that could be buried in these details to find the killer?
     
  9. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 I'm the same as always.

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    I think, the missing juveniles are important also. They also could have been kidnapped, nobody knows. Or have they already been taken into account?
     
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  10. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 I'm the same as always.

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    If I would be a teenager (still) and ready for "unallowed" adventure, I would ask my grandma and my sister at the last minute as well to take me to the MHB area. I intentionally wouldn't have dressed different than every other time. I would have led the adults astray as good as I was able, if the planned adventure had been important to me and to my friend for some reason. Teenagers have their secrets and their strategies; they aren't stupid. They aren't actually disobedient, but only curious, according to their age.
     
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  11. minazoe

    minazoe Well-Known Member

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    maybe they can tell us what size shoe he wears if they have a shoe print.

    I want to see someone walk that bridge...a grown man , same stature, walk that bridge in the same way, hands by pockets , off to the side...someone who has never set foot, and isn't afraid to do it.

    I don't want to see someone fall now...but I just want to see it, can that be done? how many tries would you need before you could sail across unbothered?

    mOO
     
  12. Luckyzmom

    Luckyzmom Well-Known Member

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    @minazoe are you alluding to familiarity as opposed to boldness ?
     
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  13. FrostedGlass

    FrostedGlass Well-Known Member

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    I've always had a hard time convincing myself that Abby did something she knew was forbidden unless it was important to one of them. Add to that I remain very puzzled that they would post the picture knowing how much trouble she would be in if Anna saw it. The catfishing theory remains close to the top of my theory list.
     
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  14. Luckyzmom

    Luckyzmom Well-Known Member

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    Could they have been there to meet someone from SM ? Surely LE would have found the trail online by now wouldn't they ? Did the girls think they were meeting up with boys their age ?.
    That just gives me the chills MOO
     
  15. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    Agree !!!
    With everything above
     
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  16. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    Correct
    and there are a few "sheds" or "shacks" in the area along with the one on RL's property
     
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  17. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    I have more maps so not sure what exactly you are looking for.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. UnapologeticallyAspie

    UnapologeticallyAspie Well-Known Member

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    But what about the possible difference between life, and death?
     
  19. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    Beacon - Carroll County, IN - Map (schneidercorp.com)
     
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  20. Yemelyan

    Yemelyan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not in a first responder position, thankfully, where I need to make decisions between life and death for people but I presume that in situations like this LE has to take into account what is the least risk of harm to the greatest number of people. So for example, if someone is missing overnight and it is not known whether or not they are out in the elements (as was the case here), LE also has to consider how many others may be harmed searching and then make a decision. There have been plenty of missing children cases, some children much younger than this, where the official search was suspended for similar reasons. In the Delphi case, I think we've been told that finding them in the overnight hours would not have made a difference in terms of their survival. Obviously, LE didn't know at that time they were dealing with murder or even if the girls were still in the vicinity of the trails. LE didn't prevent people from staying to search if they wanted to - and people did stay, including volunteer fire fighters.

    I don't know whether LE made the "right" decision in this case but I don't think that it materially affected the outcome as IMO the girls were already dead by the time the search started. As far as murders go, the bodies were found in a challenging scene from a forensics standpoint (outdoors) but were found relatively quickly, all things considered. I can't pinpoint this specifically and say the delay finding the bodies is why the crime isn't solved.
     
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