Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #133

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Yemelyan

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My husband laughs that people at work call me too quiet. I get it lol.

Idk about the timeframe as to when we'll know. But they eliminated the last guy fairly quickly. Or at least let us know that they weren't charging him. I'm hoping they're fairly confident this is the guy.

IMO what LE want to avoid, if Chadwell isn't the perpetrator, is the appearance of having dismissed any "good candidate" too soon. Because that's a reasonable doubt that could easily by used by a defense attorney at trial. So that's why we really didn't hear anything definitive about any of the POI in this case for weeks and weeks.

I mean, can you imagine if eventually they charge someone else with this crime - of course the defense will be bringing up Chadwell, Etter, and probably a few others I can name and say - how closely did they look at these guys? How likely is it that my client did this when there were others within 20 miles who were abducting and raping children and women? They zeroed in on my client and only looked at this other child rapist very cursorily because they were already saying within a week that it wasn't him.

I also think it's going to be harder to for LE to cover Chadwell than some of the other POI just because of the length of time that has elapsed since the crime. It's a lot easier to prove in July 2017 where you were in February 2017 than it is in 2021.
 
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zencompass

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The whole town of Delphi is tight-lipped, as they should be.
JMO

Yes, the town of Delphi has kept any knowledge of the crime scene to themselves and thus have respected Abby and Libby as well as their families.

This speaks to their character and their respect for one another. It's impressive.
 

Alethea

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Just wanted to say that there is an idea taking hold on this thread (and in other places where people discuss this case) that there was something unusual about the DNA that was found, and it could be dog DNA or something along those lines. IMO this is not what LE has said. The former chief prosecuting attorney said that there was a lot of crime scene evidence, and some of it was odd, and it was not what one would expect. He is talking about the totality of the physical evidence at the scene, he never said that DNA evidence specifically was odd. In fact, he never confirmed the presence of DNA at the scene - other LE members have done that.

The first piece of big information that we heard about the crime scene came from former chief prosecutor Ives in Down the Hill podcast, episode 3 "Signatures." In this podcast, he tells a reporter that the crime scene evidence was odd.

Reporter: What do you mean by odd?
RI: Well, in one sense any murder scene is probably odd. But again, this is where I have difficulty because I'm not sure what all has been released. But there were a variety of things, at the scene of the crime, where - I guess I would ask you to talk to the State Police about that, they have to decide what is going to be released and what's not going to be released, but it was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime. That's all I can say about it....All I can say about the situation with Abby and Libby is that there was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene (
note: he's talking about a previous example he gave of a "normal" murder, which is a domestic violence scenario) and it's probably not what you would imagine. What people think I'm talking about, it's probably not....I do think it will be solved because it's so odd, and so unusual, and people are so compelled to talk about the horrible things they do.

I'll also pull forward a transcript of an interview Robert Ives did with HLN, where he talked about evidence at the scene. He says that the large amount of physical (not biological) evidence at the scene led everyone to believe it would be solved within 2-3 days, and IMO it's clear from his comments that the prolific evidence that he is talking about was not DNA. Whatever evidence it is that LE thought would solve the crime right away is something that even police in the 1960s, prior to DNA investigative techniques, would have been able to use to solve a crime:


RI: There was so much physical evidence of the crime and the crime had been found so immediately after it had been committed that experienced investigators thought it would be solved really quickly and normally it would be. It’s shocking that it hasn't been solved today.

In today’s world we have cell phone evidence and DNA evidence but if you had been a police officer in 1960 and had arrived at this scene with the traditional physical evidence that was there - not to mention that we had video and audio of the person I think certainly killed the girls - you would be certain you were going to catch them within 48 hours.

So when you add in that we have evidence today - or investigatory methods that we didn’t have in the 1960 all police officers - I believe anybody who was involved - had any doubts that it would not be solved within 2 or 3 days.

Interviewer: Just from the evidence at the scene?


RI: Yes, due to the circumstances of the crime.

IMO because so many people have pets, finding animal DNA at an outdoor crime scene would be the least odd thing about it. Animal DNA could have been part of the "large amount of physical evidence" at the scene but it's clear from Ives' comments that the really odd evidence is not DNA in nature.

This is a very, very good post. If we want to brainstorm - what type of evidence found at the scene of a crime would be useful to a 1960s detective?

- a wallet
- clothes with some identifying mark (tshirt from a local company, etc)
- shoe prints
- fingerprints
- a weapon
- a signature tying the killer to previous crimes

What else? There’s a lot of possibilities here.
 

oceanblueeyes

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Omg. I wish I could have the last 45 seconds of my life back. J/k. I tend to have pretty long-winded posts, so I'm not going to throw any stones. Ironically, most people (other than my spouse) think I'm the quietest person they've ever met. I guess I have to let it out somewhere. On the other hand, I think my spouse wishes I'd put a cork in it most of the time.

Anyway, I see a dilemma for LE in this case. I doubt we'll get much more out of them until/ if charges are filed. They have all the time in the world to investigate this and other unsolved cases because he's going to be locked up for the foreseeable future. The main incentive I see for wanting to charge him in the delphi case soon is as a courtesy to the families. To give them their closure asap. More importantly, though, is that they have an airtight case. I feel like the sooner they charge him, the better the evidence they have.

I don't really know what kind of timeframe to expect. It can't be easy investigating a 4+ year old case unless they find some kind of smoking gun. If many months go by and they still haven't charged him, I will be worried that they never will. Either because of lack of evidence, or because he is just not THE guy.

I guess all we can do is hope.

MOO

You are so right.

We can't ever lose sight of hope until we know all hope is gone.

Imo. This is the driving force behind these two grieving families, and why they are able to put one foot before the other one each day for years now as they wait for justice to come.

They show us the way to always remain hopeful as we wait with them hoping for the same thing to happen.

Jmho
 

zencompass

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snipped by me...

I believe the killer had killed before. Was a some times transient. JBC posted about sleeping under a bridge. His family is terrified of him. His brother called him evil and said he tried to drown him. So water seems to make him either feel angry or safe to commit crimes.

I think he held them at gunpoint, at one point before they crossed the water, either one of them tried to run, or he was instilling fear and injured at least one of them. <modsnip>

Dear @bourbongal,

Makes me wonder whether he slept under the Monon High Bridge the night before and was there on February 13th.

It seems possible to me because it seems he was "between" jobs during that time. He didn't start his new job until April, 2017. We're not sure when his job ended at Moon Fabrications Inc.

Just a thought. JMO
 

minazoe

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I've wondered about the "thing" in this image posted March 14, 2017. At first I thought it was a fishing lure, but also considered it could be some type of carved weapon with possibly a rawhide string.
its the stringy things that tie off the quilt on the dog..its just a fold in the quilt you are seeing and it looks weird the way the light is hitting it..look again. mOO
 

Tealgrove

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Re: Libby’s phone.

Whether BG saw Libby videoing him or not, who wouldn’t check pockets of my victims to check for a phone?

I’m 60 and would be checking.

Maybe BG found the phone, put it in his pocket, and it fell out in his haste to get away.

So many seem to be assuming he didn’t know about Libby’s phone. I’m not so sure. I think that’s the one big mistake. HE lost the phone.

MOO
 

data_nerd_2005

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This is a very, very good post. If we want to brainstorm - what type of evidence found at the scene of a crime would be useful to a 1960s detective?

- a wallet
- clothes with some identifying mark (tshirt from a local company, etc)
- shoe prints
- fingerprints
- a weapon
- a signature tying the killer to previous crimes

What else? There’s a lot of possibilities here.

Based on LE’s claim that he’s likely a local, I have to wonder if something such as a key chain or clothing item was found that is specific to the local area.
 

yelodoggie

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Without any doubt whatsoever our @margarita25 is a priceless asset for all of us.

I may have missed it, but have they released what kind of dog this demonic man owned? Tia!

Imo, he had a dog to alert him if the police came with a SW or knocking on his door.

Hmm now I'm wondering how long he's had the dog.

/QUOTE]

2 or possibly 3 pit bulls, or pit mixes
 

minazoe

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I wish there was some press there while they toss his home etc..they will find all his things,
souvenirs, clothing, hard drives, things, all his kinky stuff...they are going find every last bit of it ..I am sure they are waiting for the release of all his phone records, whereabouts, cars, purchases...

they are waiting on dna, foot print analysis and voice work..I can imagine how they must feel as they wait .

literally everything about him that we have looked at painstakingly in SM could be
real evidence. his own words..

as for some who would try to create a fictional version of how this crime went down, I think we will know soon enough what he did to Libby and abby and if it is him, I suspect that he b battered the girls badly as he likes to fight dirty with his fists. He likes to completely overwhelm and shock his victim. I don't mind calling Chadwick a killer. He was looking to kill..he was doing it.

any even microscopic suggestion that the child did any thing at all to participate in this horror in any way even in an alternate universe should be totally rejected by any good and
thoughtful persons.

mOO
 

Megster024

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Re: Libby’s phone.

Whether BG saw Libby videoing him or not, who wouldn’t check pockets of my victims to check for a phone?

I’m 60 and would be checking.

Maybe BG found the phone, put it in his pocket, and it fell out in his haste to get away.

So many seem to be assuming he didn’t know about Libby’s phone. I’m not so sure. I think that’s the one big mistake. HE lost the phone.

MOO
I was thinking he spent those 13 years in prison maybe he’s not as aware as you or me that everyone over 8 has one now. Idk IMO
 

Boxer

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My husband laughs that people at work call me too quiet. I get it lol.

Idk about the timeframe as to when we'll know. But they eliminated the last guy fairly quickly. Or at least let us know that they weren't charging him. I'm hoping they're fairly confident this is the guy.
Agree.
Dear @bourbongal,

Makes me wonder whether he slept under the Monon High Bridge the night before and was there on February 13th.

It seems possible to me because it seems he was "between" jobs during that time. He didn't start his new job until April, 2017. We're not sure when his job ended at Moon Fabrications Inc.

Just a thought. JMO
Not only was he between jobs, but MHB is literally between his job locations.
 

bourbongal

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Dear @bourbongal,

Makes me wonder whether he slept under the Monon High Bridge the night before and was there on February 13th.

It seems possible to me because it seems he was "between" jobs during that time. He didn't start his new job until April, 2017. We're not sure when his job ended at Moon Fabrications Inc.

Just a thought. JMO


That's honestly what I think. I think he had set up camp in the area and just happened to come up on them. A case of being in the wrong place at the worst possible time. JMO.. I could be wrong
 

bourbongal

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I wish there was some press there while they toss his home etc..they will find all his things,
souvenirs, clothing, hard drives, things, all his kinky stuff...they are going find every last bit of it ..I am sure they are waiting for the release of all his phone records, whereabouts, cars, purchases...

they are waiting on dna, foot print analysis and voice work..I can imagine how they must feel as they wait .

literally everything about him that we have looked at painstakingly in SM could be
real evidence. his own words..

as for some who would try to create a fictional version of how this crime went down, I think we will know soon enough what he did to Libby and abby and if it is him, I suspect that he b battered the girls badly as he likes to fight dirty with his fists. He likes to completely overwhelm and shock his victim. I don't mind calling Chadwick a killer. He was looking to kill..he was doing it.

any even microscopic suggestion that the child did any thing at all to participate in this horror in any way even in an alternate universe should be totally rejected by any good and
thoughtful persons.

mOO

Agree. This little girl was in no way at all responsible for what this animal did to her.
 

carbuff

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There's so much stuff to analyze, I think it could be a good long time before they get forensic testing results and even longer to figure out what the data means.

I'm sure he's committed other assaults and murders before. I don't know whether those crimes include L&A's murder, though.
 
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