Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #134

Status
Not open for further replies.

Yemelyan

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2017
Messages
3,367
Reaction score
31,610
Great post. Looking back at historical serial killers (I don't want to call them "historic" serial killers!), signatures are often things like posing the body after death, cleaning the body, the specific order of doing things (binding, etc.). Think about it this way: your signature in handwriting is unique and it's something above and beyond just writing your name. The cursive and flourishes are not necessary but they are part of how you identify yourself. It is similar for criminal signatures.

Great analogy. And yes - we've had posters on the Delphi threads before who've speculated things like, maybe the killer left flowers behind, or a deck of cards (trying to speculate on what Ives meant by a large amount of physical evidence, and not what one would imagine). But signatures - again, as criminologists use the term - is usually not about objects, it's about behaviors.

Signatures that are "commonly" seen (odd to call it common as these are the rarest of offenders who are leaving signatures) are mutilation, necrophilia, insertion of objects, posing the body in order to degrade the victim (note: staging the body to mislead the investigation is a different type of act, not signature but MO), cutting or shaving the victim's body hair, taking trophies, use of bindings and restraints (seen in most child murders perpetrated by strangers), and particular forms of violence aimed at depersonalizing the victim. Of course this list is not exhaustive but it's typical.

All JMO but if you want to read more this is a god resource: Articles
 

teedie2

imo
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
2,033
Reaction score
1,535
Post 236 by Margarita 236 in previous thread...after a long absence from the recordings on the Delphi threads, these recordings, to almost fresh ears, sound like ... "Wait! ,,,,,,,, Down the hill." First word doesn't sound anything like "Guys" to me.

I've always admitted to being fairly hard of hearing, but these recordings are so cleaned up, I have no problem. I don't think I do, anyway.

Does everyone still hear "Guys" in these 3 recordings?

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation


Audio downloads:
Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav
Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.ogg
Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.mp3

eta the links. duh.


Another question, how does LE get two different people from a picture of the same person?

Perhaps I should skip the previous thread, and start on this one?

Really, don't we all want this solved and OVER? !!!!!!
 
Last edited:

mi_hiker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
748
Another question, how does LE get two different people from a picture of the same person?

Hopefully someone can link all the relevant stories/interviews to back this up but the first (older looking) sketch was apparently drawn mostly from artist interpretation from the video/stills on phone. Some witness input may have been taken into account.

The second (younger looking) sketch was apparently created very shortly after the murders from an eye witness who saw this person the day of the crime. This is now the sketch in focus and the only one LE want used to reference the suspect.
 

Jax49

Florida Native
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
10,040
Reaction score
29,991
Post 236 by Margarita 236 in previous thread...after a long absence from the recordings on the Delphi threads, these recordings, to almost fresh ears, sound like ... "Wait! ,,,,,,,, Down the hill." First word doesn't sound anything like "Guys" to me.

I've always admitted to being fairly hard of hearing, but these recordings are so cleaned up, I have no problem. I don't think I do, anyway.

Does everyone still hear "Guys" in these 3 recordings?

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation


Audio downloads:
Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav
Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.ogg
Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.mp3

eta the links. duh.


Another question, how does LE get two different people from a picture of the same person?

Perhaps I should skip the previous thread, and start on this one?

Really, don't we all want this solved and OVER? !!!!!!

I still hear "Guys. Down the hill."
 

marisab67

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
69
Reaction score
663
Right where my brain went when I read about him camping.
 

Nancy1954

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
170
Reaction score
862
Four years later and people are still debating what he says about going down the hill.They went down the damn hill to their death...that is the sad part of it all..not what the monster said or didn't say.Bless their hearts.

LE says the monster said.. "guys.. down the hill." I have no reason not to believe LE. There shouldn't BE any reason to debate that again.

JMO
 

Diddian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
1,975
Reaction score
34,675
Last edited:

minazoe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
6,138
Reaction score
14,596
@Sillybilly. Note that there were TWO unauthorized visits to Ron Logan's property that motivated RL to call police; once in his barn and the other time in his house.

ETA: Here's the link, March 31, 2014 at 11:53am.
Police Calls | Carroll County Comet

Interesting because JBC talks about finding a guy in his house and a fight and a 400 dollar fine....just very interesting and want to reread his words.. mOO
 

Inthedetails

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
21,195
Reaction score
108,713
Great analogy. And yes - we've had posters on the Delphi threads before who've speculated things like, maybe the killer left flowers behind, or a deck of cards (trying to speculate on what Ives meant by a large amount of physical evidence, and not what one would imagine). But signatures - again, as criminologists use the term - is usually not about objects, it's about behaviors.

Signatures that are "commonly" seen (odd to call it common as these are the rarest of offenders who are leaving signatures) are mutilation, necrophilia, insertion of objects, posing the body in order to degrade the victim (note: staging the body to mislead the investigation is a different type of act, not signature but MO), cutting or shaving the victim's body hair, taking trophies, use of bindings and restraints (seen in most child murders perpetrated by strangers), and particular forms of violence aimed at depersonalizing the victim. Of course this list is not exhaustive but it's typical.

All JMO but if you want to read more this is a god resource: Articles
Yes, a signature doesn't have to be an object. For example, I can tell who in the family did the dishes and cleaned the kitchen just by the way things were done (or not done!). I can read the "signature" left at the scene.

In this case, we've been told not only did the perp leave a "signature" but there is something "odd" about it.

jmo
 

Sillybilly

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
35,610
Reaction score
101,951
Interesting because JBC talks about finding a guy in his house and a fight and a 400 dollar fine....just very interesting and want to reread his words.. mOO

That forced entry call on March 31 2014 was at 11:53 am. Presumably RL was not at home, so pretty ballsy to break into someone's house in broad daylight.

There are a lot of out buildings on RL's property, but starting at about 1:10 in this video, it pans from RL's house over to where the investigators cars are. About 1/2 way between that distance, through the trees there is a building just down the embankment. It's a fair distance from the house, but I can see someone being able to hang out there without RL knowing about it, and being able to see when RL left the house.

Of course this is all pretty moot in relation to JBC if he was in prison at the time.
 

Sillybilly

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
35,610
Reaction score
101,951
Yes, a signature doesn't have to be an object. For example, I can tell who in the family did the dishes and cleaned the kitchen just by the way things were done (or not done!). I can read the "signature" left at the scene.

In this case, we've been told not only did the perp leave a "signature" but there is something "odd" about it.

jmo

Is that you Mom ?? ;)
 

iamnotagolem

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
5,339
Reaction score
12,422
@Sillybilly. Note that there were TWO unauthorized visits to Ron Logan's property that motivated RL to call police; once in his barn and the other time in his house.

ETA: Here's the link, March 31, 2014 at 11:53am.
Police Calls | Carroll County Comet

After the whole conversation the other day about JBCs clothing style vs BG, then rewatching the interview with RL, it made me really suspicious that maybe If JBC is BG that he stole clothes from RLs house. Because BGs clothes look like RLs clothes.
jMO MOO
 

spandangly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2020
Messages
195
Reaction score
2,355
If BG has an odd signature, which implies a ritual or compulsion, how has he not been connected to any other crime?? I can understand victims who are overlooked or written off, but doesn't it seem like an odd signature would stand out? And what about taking two girls who would immediately be missed, and not hiding them well? Was this a departure from his usual victim? Does his signature degrade over time?
 

Skillz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
236
Reaction score
1,990
I’m sure this has already been said somewhere in here, but a signature in this case could have been:
  • A dog bite
  • A homemade weapon (JBC is a welder by trade)
  • Positioning of the bodies in an A-typical way
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top