Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #134

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taylorss

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I wonder when there will be more news on investigation into BJC. MOO it takes the edge off the wait knowing that he’s in custody for other outrageous crime & not going anywhere ever. W no clock ticking on his detainment (unthinkable that he’d get bail IMO right??) LE has all the time in the world to come to conclusions on this. They should drag it out to make sure they cross all their Ts ... esp if there’s enough evidence that there could actually be a trial JMO
 

musicaljoke

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Is ‘Down the Hill’ Audio Able to Be Analyzed for Similarities to Man Officials Are Reportedly Investigating?

When I hear BG say, "Guys, down the hill", I hear that he is speaking in a lower register than his natural voice. He sounds like he has brushed his throat with a corn broom. It's a raspy, like what we call "vocal fry". It's not uncommon for a man to speak in a lower voice when he is trying to dominate.

It's the same vocal fry voice when JC says, "Find me or I'll find you". He's using his raspy lowered voice to threaten, although this time, he doesn't go quite as low into his vocal register as in the BG example. Other than the vocal register, those voices sound to me like they are coming from the same speaker.

In the other examples of JC's voice, I don't hear the same degree of vocal fry. In those brief vocal snippets, he seems to be wobbling along in his natural voice.

jmo
 

oceanblueeyes

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Some information from Grey Hughes new video. He has an unverifiable source that claims a few things we didn't know. Grey only mentions them because this person had previously known other aspects of the crime that weren't released. He claims this source knew about the young guy sketch before it was released, and knew that it was done days after the crime. Apparently he shared this information with Grey well before the 2019 press conference.

He says Libby was dragged and had bruising on her wrists.
DG was seen on camera searching for the girls and another cyclist was in the area. He says BG had still been in the area for at least 20 minutes while DG was seen on camera.
He claims the first sketch was almost all done by looking at the video with maybe a little witness input.
The only DNA they have is possible weak partial touch DNA from one of the girls clothing.


Thank you for the link.

Our DNA testing has come so far from the 80s. The first time DNA was used in a criminal trial was a rape case in Florida by the same Prosecutor in the Casey Anthony case. He's the first to get a conviction in the US. After then it took off like a rocket.

Since then its grown by leaps and bounds to heights we once thought impossible. Even the tiniest amount of skin cells are all that is usually needed now. Or any type of DNA only needs a very small amount including even leaving DNA from the sweat dripped from the murderer. (Steve Avery)

So what GH said I find very interesting, and incredible sad at the same time to know how he mistreated his young victim. I've always thought he ruled them by fear, and intimidation. Imo, he knew he could just threaten to harm the other one, and they would both comply thinking if they did what he said he would let them live. :(

Has he found out what was odd about the crime scene? Tia!

I have seen cases where skin cells results were entered at trial, and those cases were won.

We all shed thousands of skin cells every day in our daily lives. Even a small amount would yield more than we may think.

The on the ground FBI field agents who actually work the cases, including their forensic experts in the lab are known as top of their field in our country.

So I can only pray that even a small amount found it will be enough for a profile. I know it doesnt take much at all now.

LE would keep that evidence result very close to their vest.

Jmho
 

Tiff23fr

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And the 3:30pm (20 minutes beyond 3:10pm) was stated during a PC and Q&A. I’m very disappointed GH wouldn’t ask “what cameras?” was DG sighted by, looking for his daughter. IMO that’s a real good clue the integrity of his source is questionable.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet
Q. It has been stated in a press conference that “it was all over by 3:30 on Feb 13.” This statement was based on what information?

A. Evidence. I do not recall a specific time though but rather a time line.

Thank you for linking that article as I had not read it before. I found this statement very interesting when combined with the hiding in plain sight comments, etc. It feels like they may know or have a good idea who this horrible murderer is. JMO

Q. You have said you recognize the voice on the video. Do you recognize it as a jail inmate, other law enforcement team or person you know outside your employment sphere?

A. I still have not been able to pin it down. In my 30+ year career or even, as with most of us, we have heard certain voices but have difficulty in recalling exactly who it is.
 

ZoriahNZ

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oh wait, I’m confused on the sketches - I thought “young BG” sketch is one that was done right away from video but then not released for a year or two ?? .. but that has no hat. The hat sketch “old BG” does IMO have a good resemblance to BJC.

“Young BG” is so generic that it could be or could not be about 1/2 the male population of the US MOO including BJC !


I don't think so. I seem to recall that the sketch released 2nd - with the more youthful face - was said to have been drawn only a couple of days after the incident. Due to an eyewitness who saw someone doing something they felt needed to be reported. Not based on the video at all. It also was described at the time of release as a more accurate portrayal of the suspect. Whereas the one released first but made 5 months after the murders was said to be a composite. Based on multiple eyewitness reports AND interpretation of the video footage. YMMV.
 

Sillybilly

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ADMIN NOTE:

Tricia and I have discussed Gray’s recent podcast and, with Tricia knowing Gray for as long and as well as she has, she has absolute trust that he must be exceptionally confident in the information he has received.

Accordingly, we are making a thread specific decision to allow discussion of the information that Gray has presented from his unverifiable source, specifically that:

He says Libby was dragged and had bruising on her wrists.
DG was seen on camera searching for the girls and another cyclist was in the area. He says BG had still been in the area for at least 20 minutes while DG was seen on camera.
He claims the first sketch was almost all done by looking at the video with maybe a little witness input.
The only DNA they have is possible weak partial touch DNA from one of the girls clothing.


While members may not state the information as absolute fact, they may refer to it and discuss it, while others may choose to believe the information or not.

On a separate note, while Chadwell is definitely extremely high on the list as a suspect and is certainly being allowed in this discussion, a decision has been made to keep his extensive social media information over in the Lafayette thread to avoid too much cross-posting and extra work for the Mods in having Alerts come in from both threads.

Any questions, please use the Report feature to ask rather than post on the public thread.

Thanks !!
 

Tiff23fr

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Thank you for linking that article as I had not read it before. I found this statement very interesting when combined with the hiding in plain sight comments, etc. It feels like they may know or have a good idea who this horrible murderer is. JMO

Q. You have said you recognize the voice on the video. Do you recognize it as a jail inmate, other law enforcement team or person you know outside your employment sphere?

A. I still have not been able to pin it down. In my 30+ year career or even, as with most of us, we have heard certain voices but have difficulty in recalling exactly who it is.

Along that line of thinking:
"When we decided that, through the information we received, that we were going to release the second sketch I don’t believe the individual knew we were going to do that. So, it was really, really important. I think he was probably there and/or watching, simply because he thought we were on the wrong path," Carter said when the second sketch was released.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/the-delphi-murders-four-years-later-and-still-no-arrests

Scratching my head here.....o_O
 

raja

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IMHO I think the sketch story could be explained by the scenario that when BG was on the bridge he had facial hair and when he exited the park he did not have facial hair. LE could not connect the witness' first sketch since he was described as clean shaven. They made the mistake of thinking the video was a better witness than an actual person. They released what they saw in the video in the form of a sketch. When the April 2019 happened they said "you thought you fooled us" as in you changed your appearance in the park. They release the new sketch and let him know they figured this out. I think they may have found some type of camp in a place that only someone familiar with the park could easily be found. "You want to know what we know" could be an LE taunt that they have now connected the camp to the correct sketch. We were on to something early on could have been about that camp which was discovered. In GH's video something about 20 minutes still in the park. Is it possible someone saw a clean shaven man packing up a camp so they did not pursue because they thought scruffy older looking man on the bridge did not match a younger looking person. JMHO

Edit...he shaved between time on the bridge and clearing his camp to leave the park.
 

StarryStarryNight

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As far as this new information from GH’s video here’s my initial thoughts:
1) DG was seen on camera searching....it would be nice to know where that camera was
2) another cyclist was in the are...first, I didn’t know there was ANY cyclist seen in the area. Does anyone know anything about this first cyclist?
3) The first sketch was almost all based on the video. Which video? The bridge video or some other video? If the bridge video I really cannot believe that considering how unclear it is.
4) I absolutely believe the DNA they have is almost worthless.
A mixed bag of information.
 

musicaljoke

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IMHO I think the sketch story could be explained by the scenario that when BG was on the bridge he had facial hair and when he exited the park he did not have facial hair. LE could not connect the witness' first sketch since he was described as clean shaven. They made the mistake of thinking the video was a better witness than an actual person. They released what they saw in the video in the form of a sketch. When the April 2019 happened they said "you thought you fooled us" as in you changed your appearance in the park. They release the new sketch and let him know they figured this out. I think they may have found some type of camp in a place that only someone familiar with the park could easily be found. "You want to know what we know" could be an LE taunt that they have now connected the camp to the correct sketch. We were on to something early on could have been about that camp which was discovered. In GH's video something about 20 minutes still in the park. Is it possible someone saw a clean shaven man packing up a camp so they did not pursue because they thought scruffy older looking man on the bridge did not match a younger looking person. JMHO

Edit...he shaved between time on the bridge and clearing his camp to leave the park.

You have suggested an interesting thought. Perhaps BG shaved while still in the woods. It would be odd though, wouldn't it?
 

raja

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You have suggested an interesting thought. Perhaps BG shaved while still in the woods. It would be odd though, wouldn't it?
Not odd if you are living at the camp and have your razor with you. He changed the way he look the fastest way he could and I bet he changed clothes as well and put his wet clothes packed with the rest of his camp.
 

Tiff23fr

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As far as this new information from GH’s video here’s my initial thoughts:
1) DG was seen on camera searching....it would be nice to know where that camera was
2) another cyclist was in the are...first, I didn’t know there was ANY cyclist seen in the area. Does anyone know anything about this first cyclist?
3) The first sketch was almost all based on the video. Which video? The bridge video or some other video? If the bridge video I really cannot believe that considering how unclear it is.
4) I absolutely believe the DNA they have is almost worthless.
A mixed bag of information.

The video is certainly an interesting question. I wonder if potentially BG was seen on this same video leaving. (Just a possibility)
Going back to @MistyWaters last post:

Q. It has been stated in a press conference that “it was all over by 3:30 on Feb 13.” This statement was based on what information?

A. Evidence. I do not recall a specific time though but rather a time line.
County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet
 

mekeritrig

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IMHO I think the sketch story could be explained by the scenario that when BG was on the bridge he had facial hair and when he exited the park he did not have facial hair. LE could not connect the witness' first sketch since he was described as clean shaven. They made the mistake of thinking the video was a better witness than an actual person. They released what they saw in the video in the form of a sketch. When the April 2019 happened they said "you thought you fooled us" as in you changed your appearance in the park. They release the new sketch and let him know they figured this out. I think they may have found some type of camp in a place that only someone familiar with the park could easily be found. "You want to know what we know" could be an LE taunt that they have now connected the camp to the correct sketch. We were on to something early on could have been about that camp which was discovered. In GH's video something about 20 minutes still in the park. Is it possible someone saw a clean shaven man packing up a camp so they did not pursue because they thought scruffy older looking man on the bridge did not match a younger looking person. JMHO

Edit...he shaved between time on the bridge and clearing his camp to leave the park.

  • Well, we don't know if BG knew any outside observers saw him or not.
  • We don't know, but we can assume that BG wasn't aware he had been recorded by Libby and that his images on the bridge would be found and disseminated by law enforcement.
  • We do know that nobody was aware of the murders until a day later.
  • Nobody was pursuing a 'scruffy older looking man' to begin with, the only people being specifically sought out were Abby and Libby, it wasn't until later that the revelation that a murderer was on the loose was realized.
I don't think BG would have committed the murders if he thought he was being watched or someone had paid particular attention to him in a suspicious manner, so the idea that he'd shave some facial hair to hide his identity seems superfluous and would just keep him near the crime scene longer.
 

Inthedetails

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IMHO I think the sketch story could be explained by the scenario that when BG was on the bridge he had facial hair and when he exited the park he did not have facial hair. LE could not connect the witness' first sketch since he was described as clean shaven. They made the mistake of thinking the video was a better witness than an actual person. They released what they saw in the video in the form of a sketch. When the April 2019 happened they said "you thought you fooled us" as in you changed your appearance in the park. They release the new sketch and let him know they figured this out. I think they may have found some type of camp in a place that only someone familiar with the park could easily be found. "You want to know what we know" could be an LE taunt that they have now connected the camp to the correct sketch. We were on to something early on could have been about that camp which was discovered. In GH's video something about 20 minutes still in the park. Is it possible someone saw a clean shaven man packing up a camp so they did not pursue because they thought scruffy older looking man on the bridge did not match a younger looking person. JMHO

Edit...he shaved between time on the bridge and clearing his camp to leave the park.
Well, that certainly would be "odd" evidence to have facial hair that was shaved, as well as a "signature" left.

jmo
 

raja

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  • Well, we don't know if BG knew any outside observers saw him or not.
  • We don't know, but we can assume that BG wasn't aware he had been recorded by Libby and that his images on the bridge would be found and disseminated by law enforcement.
  • We do know that nobody was aware of the murders until a day later.
  • Nobody was pursuing a 'scruffy older looking man' to begin with, the only people being specifically sought out were Abby and Libby, it wasn't until later that the revelation that a murderer was on the loose was realized.
I don't think BG would have committed the murders if he thought he was being watched or someone had paid particular attention to him in a suspicious manner, so the idea that he'd shave some facial hair to hide his identity seems superfluous and would just keep him near the crime scene longer.
If he knew someone saw him before the murders that day they would describe him with facial hair. He did not know if anyone would see him after or not so he quickly changed his appearance from earlier just in case. JMHO
 

oceanblueeyes

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First I want to make this very clear, and I have such admiration for all Gray does. All of his videos have me mesmerized by the skill he has.

Gray has a very close relationship for his inside sources. Imo, they are in law enforcement.

So this is what I've been thinking, and would like to know what you all think.

Gray wants this double murderer caught so could he have been advised to mislead this time about the amount of DNA they really have?

Gray, and LE knows the killer of the girls when caught will have kept up closely with all media sources including SM about the case. I'm sure the FBI profilers have told them this, imo.

Who knows the killer may have been reading here the entire time. Murderers may have even posted on WS in the past. One did at least who was the woman who was an accountant in charge when a gentleman hit a lottery in the millions in Florida. The man had been killed, and she knew he was dead the entire time she posted. She, and a man were tried, and convicted for murder.

Remember when the PC in the WDC sniper mass shooting case purposefully mislead the public pretending they didn't know what kind of car the two were driving when he knew all along it wasn't a white van?

Could it be a possibilty now that Gray put out there was a weak amount of skin cells under advertisement by someone in LE?

They knew he would be watching it thinking they have only very weak DNA giving him a false sense of security. I've been thinking about that, and it doesn't really make sense to me when the murderer came in body to body contact with both girls. I highly respect all who think otherwise.

Other LE in other big cases have purposefully put out misleading information before with the help of trusted media sources, and no doubt they know Gray is one who is trusted by them. They also know the high amount of viewers he gets.

It's just a thought, and nothing more.

Eta: I have to sign off now, but I'll be back some time tomorrow.

Jmho
 
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