Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #135

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. UnapologeticallyAspie

    UnapologeticallyAspie Hiding In Plain Sight: Women On the Spectrum

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    <modnsip> Although an accomplice has not been stated by LE, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not possible.
    Also, from what I’ve read these witnesses, the woman & her fiancé, have not really been mentioned anymore by LE, AND they were never identified. And this is exceptionally odd to me. But hey, what do I know.

    All mO0 of course.
     
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  2. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    There are media posts about the trails which are still active going back to at least 2007, albeit posts from Logansport and Delphi.

    Which makes me wonder how long BG had known about them, and had fantasized and planned for the attack.

    Hikers experience beauty of Delphi Historic Trail
     
  3. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I got the impression what’s now referred to as the High Bridge trail was the original rail bed, as old as the bridge although in more recent days it would’ve been private property prior to the donation of the land.

    From your link -

    “The trail follows a rail trail to old Camden Road and over to the Monon High Bridge, a decommissioned railroad bridge currently owned by CSX….”

    June, 2015
    Work continues on Monon High Bridge Trail | Carroll County Comet
    “The nonprofit organization, Heartland Heritage Inc. (HHI), recently extended the trail on the west end with old rail bed land donated by adjacent landowners.”
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  4. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I have no reason why I didn’t see this on the link posted earlier other than it might be time to visit the optometrist. My mistake, the alleged “man in black” story was from the same Monday. But notice a discrepancy to known fact - “….was not on the trail with the girls…but other friends were”. Then after the detailed story she goes on to say …”could just be rumour”.

    Memorial grows as police continue search for Delphi girls' killer | wthr.com
    “Chasity was not on the trail with the girls Monday after noon, but other friends were. They talked about a man they saw.

    "They said that they had said, 'Hi' and he, like, just brushed them off and kept going," Chasity said.

    The teens said the man seemed out of place, though Chasity says that "could just be a rumor."

    The children described the man wearing all black. Meanwhile, police continue their search for a man dressed differently. They circulated his photo Wednesday, saying he would have been on the trail at the same time as the girls….”
     
  5. UnapologeticallyAspie

    UnapologeticallyAspie Hiding In Plain Sight: Women On the Spectrum

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    All mO0 of course.
    i just googled the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. I think my ex BIL is most definitely a psychopath, as he has ZERO remorse.
    But BG may be a sociopath based on what Carter said in the 2019 PC: “To the murderer: I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left.“, DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights
    My google search said that sociopaths “have a limited, albeit weak, ability to feel empathy and remorse.”
    That leads me to believe that LE’s/BAU’s profile of BG is that he is a sociopath, and not a psychopath. But who really knows besides God. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    All mO0
     
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  6. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    In the past I've found photos of what you describe, the right-of-way was terribly overgrown for many years after abandonment. Albeit on private land acquired after abandonment. I don't know the timeline of trail improvements, but I do know there were efforts in 2006, 2012, and sometime since 2012 signs were put in on what is now the west side of 25. Excavation removed a lot of earth along there, eliminating the old r-o-w where Freedom Bridge is now.

    I just found this, before pics of the area now occupied by Freedom Bridge and the trail by there. You can see in one where a lot of vegetation had been cleared on the old r-o-w just east of FB, also those efforts revealed the old Milroy bridge was still there, put there by the RR so the family could farm parcels on either side of the r-o-w. Posts are from 2013.

    Monon line around Delphi - Historic Railroads in General - Indiana Railroads Bull Session

    Found this gem a while ago, again great "before" pics.

    The one with the rails which were welded together and then put in the ground and painted red to prevent vehicles from getting on to the bridge should look familiar to folks who have followed the case. Author is looking north, bridge would be behind him.

    MONON Railroad Historical-Technical Society
     
  7. SMK777

    SMK777 Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip- quoted post removed>

    That’s what’s so haunting about this crime: Two female eighth graders brutally murdered in broad daylight on a weekday afternoon on lovely, historic trails, just as the Dad was arriving to pick them up.

    I’ve heard of young college-age women murdered in the middle of the night while camping in a tent somewhere, which is tragic enough— but the Delphi murders are beyond the pale.
     
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  8. news buff

    news buff Well-Known Member

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    So no other person besides Kelsi and a possible person on the bridge saw the girls before they were murdered? Surely there would more.
     
  9. FromGermany1

    FromGermany1 Don't like it, but have to wait.

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    ^^ LINK : I just stumbled about: Monon High Bridge is the formerly Deer Creek Trestle.
     
  10. Nancy1954

    Nancy1954 Well-Known Member

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    @ StarryStarryNight.. where I differ is in my belief that the murderer of Abby and Libby is not going to "sort themselves out for us like this." He is not going to commit an act that would put him directly on LE's radar. I truly don't believe the murderer, who has gotten away with this for four years, is going to take a 9 year old girl in his home and do what he did. It just doesn't make sense. I just don't see JBC as the one who did that to Abby and Libby. In my opinion, it was more than just "luck," it was a lot of planning. JBC seems to me impulsive, the monster on the bridge doesn't. Him walking on that bridge, and ordering the girls "down the hill" to a planned location says that to me. JBC.. being so impulsive.. would have found/taken the easiest and quickest way to murder them.. in R.L.'s nearby field perhaps, without even having to go down the hill.

    I can understand us looking into every single person that LE brings to the forefront in their investigation, that is NOT what I am saying, I CAN'T understand why so many are hell-bent on forcing each of these PERSONS OF INTEREST into being the bridge monster. And then they aren't. Yet we do it over and over. We CAN'T be sure that JBC is the murderer of Abby and Libby, yet some of us here seem to be! Though I say that I think he isn't, I could be wrong too. I'm just saying that perhaps keeping an open mind and taking our tunnel vision off of JBC and focusing it on all of the possibilities would be the prudent thing to do.

    Yes, I agree 100%, we all want to see the bridge monster caught ASAP, we are all on the same team.

    <modsnip>

    JMO
     
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  11. Tiff23fr

    Tiff23fr Verified Expert - Cultural & Behavioral Dynamics Staff Member Moderator

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    Sincere question - I haven’t followed this case from the beginning. What piece is the known discrepancy?
     
  12. SMK777

    SMK777 Well-Known Member

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    I think because JBC fits in so many ways, and there’s such a desire to have closure all around in this case, that the temptation to latch onto him as the key of keys is irresistible.

    I would agree that grabbing the 9 year old, IF he’d gotten away with the bridge murders, would be reckless in the extreme. However, these things have been known to happen.

    <modsnip>
     
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  13. WildHuncher

    WildHuncher Certified Insane Amateur

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    It's an insane behavior even if you've been a pure angel up to that moment. We already know JBC had a rap sheet out to there and warrants outstanding at the time. Still, he went ahead.

    We don't know that Delphi was all that planned. It might have been pure opportunism. Possibly LE knows the answer on this, but we don't.
     
  14. SMK777

    SMK777 Well-Known Member

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    All true.
     
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  15. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    There were no friends with Abby and Libby that day. A widely spread rumour that another friend had earlier planned to go with them that day but changed her mind at the last minute was also refuted by BP. BP has further stated no one saw the girls that day on the trails (other than the killer obviously) as it just happened there was a lull in other walkers at the time. But I’ve watched too many videos, so I’m sorry I don’t recall the specific source. I’m hoping someone else might.
     
  16. Tiff23fr

    Tiff23fr Verified Expert - Cultural & Behavioral Dynamics Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok- thanks!
    I watched the video in the article and got the impression she (CJ) was saying she wasn’t on the trails with the girls (meaning whomever the girls may have been that observed the alleged individual in black, not necessarily meaning with Abby & Libby).
    Just my interpretation when I watched it. It’s always interesting how things can be interpreted in different ways.
    Memorial grows as police continue search for Delphi girls' killer | wthr.com
     
  17. keystothekiller

    keystothekiller Member

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  18. Ozoner

    Ozoner Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget to differentiate between primary and secondary psychopaths.

    All these attempts to differentiate people on the psychopathy spectrum are a bit academic. Psychopaths, sociopaths, and narcissists are basically the same thing—more similar than Coke and Pepsi.
     
  19. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    In the beginning, I had the thought that the killer was familiar with the area because he knew about the area off the trails where the crime scene was. Now as time goes on, I'm of the opinion that just knowing about the existence of the trail and how to get there may be just as important, if not more important. And even if the trail was not there 10-15 years prior, how long had the private road underneath the bridge been there? Could this killer have been a visitor to the area walking down that road? Just hanging out or maybe even going down to the creek to fish?
     
  20. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    Despite what I hear in some theories, I don't believe this killer knew either of the girls. (There is probably a small chance he had seen them somewhere before and/or maybe they had seen him, but none of the parties knew names.) The degree of planning, if any, that went into this is an interesting topic. For example, did the killer park at the far end of the cemetery or at the now demolished CPS building? That would almost seem to indicate that when this killer parked his vehicle he knew he was going to do something - kill, abduct, rape - when he went there. (I suppose the argument could be made that this killer always did this as he was always on the prowl for a victim.) OTH, if this was PURELY opportunistic he could have parked where everyone else usually parked. I do believe the choice of victims was opportunistic. If a petite 5', 100 pound blonde 20 something woman had been where Abigail and Liberty were that person would have been the victim instead. For Abigail and Liberty it was wrong place, wrong time.
     
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