Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #136

[ShamelessObserver]

There are some YouTube channels that show (and break down the psychology of) an official police interview. They are instructive in how to think about interrogation and what might go on if a suspect in the Delphi case was questioned.

Police don't simply bring the person in, say "what do you know about this? Nothing? Okay."

Usually the interrogator goes through a very detailed questioning of how or if a person might know the victim, what exactly they did that day, and they go at these points in several different ways so they can see if the story is changing. Sometimes just in the course of this type of questioning, small details are revealed in the suspect's knowledge that he could not be expected to know unless he was at the scene. However, even if this doesn't happen, a second phase of the interview may occur.

In phase two, the suspect may be asked something like "what do you think the killer of these girls might have done? Would he have crossed the creek with them? Why do you think their clothes were in the creek?" For example. And the answers to these questions would be analyzed - the "hypothetical" situation. Often a suspect will reveal details here that incriminate him if there are facts held back from reporting on the case or that otherwise could not easily be guessed.

Finally, there is a specific technique of interrogation used often in the US called the Reid technique. You can see an excellent example of this at work in the Chris Watts murder interrogation, which is widely available to be viewed. In this technique, the interrogator presents a "lesser evil" scenario to the offender to see if he will agree that this other, not-quite-as-bad scenario, was what occurred. In the Chris Watts example the interrogator offered up the scenario that his wife hurt their kids first and he retaliated by killing her. Then they let him talk to his parents and he immediately "confessed" to them this alternate version of events that was not "as bad." But this is not the endpoint. They keep working on inconsistencies in your story and the evidence until they eventually get the suspect to incriminate himself in the actual scenario that occurred. In the Delphi case, if LE knew, for example, that a sexual assault had occurred or been attempted, they might present the scenario that the girls made fun of the suspect and he killed them in a rage. They know this is likely not the motive but they want to see if he will agree to this other, "not as bad" scenario that doesn't involve child rape, and see what real details he might also admit to.

If you want to read about the interrogation of a suspected child killer which actually took several years to bear fruit (the suspect was imprisoned on other charges at the time), read The Last Stone by Mark Bowden.

All MOO.

Doesn’t work if you just keep responding with no comment

they can only hold him for so long without clear proof

 

[ShamelessObserver]

I believe they know who he is. If there’s just one piece of the puzzle left, then what else could it be except a name and plausible reason to arrest him?

A name alone isn’t enough to solve this case though. They need a name with some further info that matches what they know about him.


For example

‘The suspect looks just like my friend Joe Bloggs. He had a bright purple Ford Mustang around that time and would drive it around quite a lot, but I haven’t seen him drive that thing in years and I don’t think he’s ever sold it.’

Name
Car
Car is the same as the one at the CPS building


Arrest

 

[Yemelyan]

Doesn’t work if you just keep responding with no comment

they can only hold him for so long without clear proof

Most people IMO will eventually say something other than "no comment." An experienced interrogator is great at making you think that there are certain non-incriminating things you can respond to without getting yourself in trouble.

And then some people end up talking because LE worked to charge them with some other, often petty, crime and they are sitting in jail and have nothing better to do, or they want to bargain for some luxury they don't have.

Sometimes it's because of hubris, or they think they are smarter than LE. Sometimes they are in fact pretty smart but they just have to have some small amount of recognition for how smart they are and that's their downfall.

And sometimes - don't discount this because the Delphi case isn't solved yet - the suspect is not too intelligent. LE always has to watch out for this type because they can end up confessing to things they didn't do. That's how well the Reid technique works.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Most people IMO will eventually say something other than "no comment." An experienced interrogator is great at making you think that there are certain non-incriminating things you can respond to without getting yourself in trouble.

And then some people end up talking because LE worked to charge them with some other, often petty, crime and they are sitting in jail and have nothing better to do, or they want to bargain for some luxury they don't have.

Sometimes it's because of hubris, or they think they are smarter than LE. Sometimes they are in fact pretty smart but they just have to have some small amount of recognition for his smart they are and that's their downfall.

And sometimes - don't discount this because the Delphi case isn't solved yet - the suspect is not too intelligent. LE always has to watch out for this type because they can end up confessing to things they didn't do. That's how well the Reid technique works.

Fair enough I just personally think that BG will give them nothing but I hope I’m wrong!

 

[helpfulcharlie]

Why do LE make statements like (paraphrasing)

talking about when they have the suspect ‘we want to ask the suspect what he knows about the case’

or Doug Carter talking about not releasing COD helps them identify him saying ‘we won’t release that info because only the killer knows the cause of death’

do they really think when they arrest BG he’s just going to spill all the beans?? He won’t tell them anything, that’s what criminals do...

I share the frustration. The flipside of this, to LE's great benefit, is that when you keep details close to the vest, and some nutjob tries to inject himself into the case by making a lot of wild claims, you have a real good sense right away of whether they actually know anything or not.

 

[Justice101]

If they need one thing.. then I agree with others, that is it probably a name.. so they can get DNA from him in a backdoor manner.

I like the discussions about LE ways to get to the truth. These guys are masters of that... that is, if the person brought in doesn't actually think they are a prime suspect. If the guy will talk at all, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that interrogation room. They'll lie to him if they have to (say they have his DNA) so that they can turn the guy's story back against himself. No matter how smart you are as a criminal, you can't make up every little detail that LE will ask you... and eventually it will all start to unravel.

Fascinating to watch this. It is a science.

My HOPE is the JBC is the guy. My 2ND HOPE is that some other guy is in their target My FEAR is that they've eliminated their top 5 suspects and they are only working on 6 thru 10.

 

[minazoe]

it's a weird situation because JBC is already lawyered up on the attempted murder case
and he's really so totally GUILTY in that case ..the cops really have zero excuse to offer him any kind of a deal. Also it's unlikely they can even talk to him.

wonder what they do in this situation?

 

[jg580]

If they know who it is but the missing piece is the name then how could they know who it is but not know his name? I'm sure I'm missing something obvious (my brain isnt working quite right these days lol) but can someone please clue me in?

 

[ShamelessObserver]

If they know who it is but the missing piece is the name then how could they know who it is but not know his name? I'm sure I'm missing something obvious (my brain isnt working quite right these days lol) but can someone please clue me in?

Because they may know who he is but lack evidence....

so if you tipped in BG and you were correct, you could perhaps give them some info about BG that would confirm to LE it’s finally the day to make the arrest.

for example the type of car he drove at the time of the murders, or that you know he was off work that day

 

[ShamelessObserver]

So they may already know his name but need that little tip of info like the above to arrest him

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Because, like I keep saying, just giving his name alone won’t be enough for LE to arrest him. They need some credible info alongside the name to ‘push the button’ and get the cuffs on him

 

[Yemelyan]

it's a weird situation because JBC is already lawyered up on the attempted murder case
and he's really so totally GUILTY in that case ..the cops really have zero excuse to offer him any kind of a deal. Also it's unlikely they can even talk to him.

wonder what they do in this situation?

What he's accused of in that case is horrible and he SHOULD go away a very long time for it, but you might be surprised at how light the sentence may end up being. And if that turns out to be so, he may be very interested to know how seriously LE are looking at him for the Delphi case, and that could make him want to test the waters.

I know of another case where a person was in the process of serving a lengthy sentence for child rape and he was given an immunity agreement to talk to investigators on a cold case if only he would also agree to be candid, honest, and completely truthful. LE were able to show that he changed his story multiple times and was being the opposite of honest. He ultimately incriminated himself and ended up sentenced to a further two life terms for child abduction with intent to defile and murder. The immunity agreement was tossed out, appealed, and tossed again. Why did he agree to talk to them in the first place, you may ask? Only he knows the reasons but likely because he was bored. Whenever he got to interview with the cold case investigators, he often got restaurant food brought in for him or a ride to a different correctional facility to do the interview. It's the little things, apparently.

 

[jg580]

Thank you for the explanation So its not literally a name as I was taking it but more info that can confirm what they suspect.

 

[SMK777]

If they know who it is but the missing piece is the name then how could they know who it is but not know his name? I'm sure I'm missing something obvious (my brain isnt working quite right these days lol) but can someone please clue me in?

I don’t get it, either.
Edit: Just read posts above, got it.

 

[JnRyan]

I was just watching a news clip from April of this year on the Missy Bevers case. The police chief states they've received over 3,000 tips. This is a nationally covered case with video of the killer and they've got 3K tips in 5 years. With 4 years here LE has over 50,000 tips. If only 5% appear to be worth following up that amount is almost equal to the total tips in the Bevers case. And I imagine the number of tips LE have looked into is much greater than 5%. If new investigators are assigned and they decide to start from the beginning that is going to be a massive undertaking.

I still believe that when an arrest is made the killer will be found to be the subject of a tip or tips. Maybe a DNA sample didn't make it to the lab or failed to be tested. Maybe a miscommunication between original investigators led to an alibi not being verified. With 50K tips it is lot easier for a mistake to be buried.

 

[Detective Willy]

After 4 years these are some of the key points I have taken:

1) There are 3 "odd" signatures left by the killer. If BG kills again these signatures may be present.
2) There is no point releasing more video.
3) There is no more audio of BG. "Down the Hill" is the only audio LE has of BG.
4) Investigators have regrets that they cancelled the canine unit that was on the way before they found the girls bodies. The dogs may have been able to track where BG went after the murders.
5) LE has a lot more info like the cause of death but they will be saving this for the court room.
6) Full time investigators are still working on this case every day.
7) They are very confident they will catch "the person or people". This indicates they think its possible 2 people are involved.

 

[CNYDarkStar]

I share the frustration. The flipside of this, to LE's great benefit, is that when you keep details close to the vest, and some nutjob tries to inject himself into the case by making a lot of wild claims, you have a real good sense right away of whether they actually know anything or not.

Like Chadwell...

 

[SMK777]

After 4 years these are some of the key points I have taken:

1) There are 3 "odd" signatures left by the killer. If BG kills again these signatures may be present.
2) There is no point releasing more video.
3) There is no more audio of BG. "Down the Hill" is the only audio LE has of BG.
4) Investigators have regrets that they cancelled the canine unit that was on the way before they found the girls bodies. The dogs may have been able to track where BG went after the murders.
5) LE has a lot more info like the cause of death but they will be saving this for the court room.
6) Full time investigators are still working on this case every day.
7) They are very confident they will catch "the person or people". This indicates they think its possible 2 people are involved.

Very good summation. What was the reason they canceled the canine unit, if the girls had yet to be found?

 

[Yemelyan]

Very good summation. What was the reason they canceled the canine unit, if the girls had yet to be found?

The canine unit that was en route was trained to find living people and the idea was that the canines would track the girls (whose whereabouts were still unknown). However, before the dogs arrived, the girls were found dead. It's my understanding from the HLN Down the Hill episode that a decision was made that there was no longer a need to track a living person. Later it was realized that IF the canines could have tracked the perpetrator's route from the area, that would have been useful information. Key word being "if." It's unknown if this would have been successful. Leazenby cited this as one of his regrets about the handling of the crime. According to the Carroll County Comet Q&A, as of February 2021 investigators still don't know exactly how the killer left the area. Theories have been developed but nothing is 100% certain at this time.

 

[SMK777]

The canine unit that was en route was trained to find living people and the idea was that the canines would track the girls (whose whereabouts were still unknown). However, before the dogs arrived, the girls were found dead. It's my understanding from the HLN Down the Hill episode that a decision was made that there was no longer a need to track a living person. Later it was realized that IF the canines could have tracked the perpetrator's route from the area, that would have been useful information. Key word being "if." It's unknown if this would have been successful. Leazenby cited this as one of his regrets about the handling of the crime. According to the Carroll County Comet Q&A, as of February 2021 investigators still don't know exactly how the killer left the area. Theories have been developed but nothing is 100% certain at this time.

Thanks very much, I understand.