Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #137

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    The "We only need one tip..." is a theme I see every now and then in unsolved cases. There is another case I'm following, the murders of Heidi Childs and David Metzler, from 12 years ago. LE said something similar at the 12 year mark last week. Police continue to seek justice in Childs-Metzler cold case

    “You know we only need really one and that if that one piece of information is what we need, then that’s success,” Geller said.

    Of course, in the above case many in that area believe someone knows but is unwilling or afraid to come forward. And maybe in Abigail and Liberty's case that is what LE believes here.
     


  2. distracted

    distracted Well-Known Member

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    There are a number of reasons people insert themselves into a case - notoriety, information gathering, distraction, diversion, etc. There's a reason that LE return to a crime scene often, attend funerals and interview anyone who is connected whether intimately or peripherally. And the reason is that sometimes a person connected to a crime inserts himself into the investigation or family members' lives for access or in an effort to protect himself or someone else who is involved.

    At this point, I can't dismiss anything.
     
  3. distracted

    distracted Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree with you. I have never understood why they used a sketch at all when they have the guy on video. I can understand why they had the sketches drawn, but I would have expected them to be kept as part of the file and not shown to the public.
     
  4. heartgoesout

    heartgoesout Well-Known Member

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    Yes, two looks. One that he was covered up with a disguise if you will, and one as himself. Speculating the white image coming out of his jacket could possibly be the duffle bag handles he put the BG clothes, hat, scarf in.

    Remember when they were asking about a duffle bag?
    "We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.
    Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide | wthr.com
     
  5. heartgoesout

    heartgoesout Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind the second sketch released was actually done three days after the murders but not released until April 2019.
    The first sketch released in August 2017 and took a long 6 months. Speculating that they were going back and forth between disagreeing witnesses.
     
  6. heartgoesout

    heartgoesout Well-Known Member

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    Nicely said. There may be some tweaks to the dots, but at the end of the day there were only so many people there that day.
     
  7. heartgoesout

    heartgoesout Well-Known Member

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    Great thoughts and questions. As someone said above I know that voice, is a hint. He's telling BG we know.
    LE cannot come out and say it's so and so. So they tell it subtly. They also cannot come out and explain that the POI lied about the sketch, hence the confusing statements on the sketches. IMO
    LE can triple check on witnesses. They can triple check witnesses friends and family. Doesn't matter if they are lying and holding strong to that lie.
     
  8. Ekliptika

    Ekliptika Well-Known Member

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    Wonder if they have made voice recordings of the people they know were there that day. And compared with Libbys recording. I do not know if there are forensic methods for comparing voices. But if so I would assume that must have been done in this case. I trust that the police have used every tool they have in the box to solve this case.
     
  9. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    Well Said !!!! (or written, LOL)

    Yes, anything is a possibility after 4+ years.

    That one tip, that One piece of the puzzle.

    Hopefully, LE will have that soon.
     
  10. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    You're really very close with your speculation per ISP 1st Sgt Jerry Holeman at the 2018 CrimeCon: Delphi Murders CrimeCon Interview Transcript - CrimeLights
    SGT. HOLEMAN: You can ask the tough questions, I’ll answer them. Again, it takes a lot of time. I’m not a sketch artist. The FBI actually–an agent from the FBI–did the sketch. And you know, I think when somebody sketches it takes like, 10 minutes [shakes head ‘no’]. It takes several weeks. But to get the information, to find the people that we believe saw that person that day near the time of the murders, that takes months. So we had to locate these people, interview them, find out who they really saw. Did they really see the guy on the bridge from the video, or did they see Mike out there helping search, or did they see somebody else out there helping with the search? So we had to identify those people, and once we felt like we identified the people that actually saw the guy on the bridge, then the sketch itself took, again, several weeks. They sketched it, looked at it, “No…that’s not correct”. I will say that she still–[Clarification note: he quickly corrects his use of ‘she’ to ‘they’]—they, there’s a couple people— still aren’t convinced that’s the proper hat, but that’s the hat that the sketch artist could come up with as close to what the witnesses were describing. And I know the Superintendent [Doug Carter] said “Don’t focus on the sketch”, and we got a lot of calls on that. I think what he meant to say was…you know, where there’s four or five of us up here right now and if we pick somebody out of room right now and identify them to a sketch artist, there would be five different sketches. They’d have the similar features, as we believe this sketch has of the guy on the bridge, but they’d be a little different.
     
  11. distracted

    distracted Well-Known Member

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    Quite telling, IMO.
     
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  12. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    No wonder Carter was pi**ed at the April PC...

    After all that work talking to multiple witnesses, spending weeks and months reviewing the sketch, changing details, and corroborating stories, LE then changes course. Just how many witnesses gave input into that sketch? Surely they weren't all lying, so who did they see? From Holeman's quote, it sounds like at least some of them saw this person after the murders ("...did they see Mike out there searching..."), so did LE assume the killer did not try to stay hidden afterwards? Did the witnesses see someone wet and muddy? Or not? How could the killer not be wet and muddy at that point? Why would LE veer course away from someone who was seen to be wet and muddy? But I'm assuming...

    So now they go with a sketch that took hours to days instead of weeks to months. Three days at the most. Not an FBI, multiple sourced, thoroughly reviewed sketch with a hat (because clearly the witnesses described seeing a hat, even if not in agreement to the sketch result). A sketch which is not to be dismissed, but is of secondary importance now. Okay...

    Unless the witnesses were in cahoots while describing hat guy, something else is going on here. That man, killer or not, seemed to be there that day. He is of secondary importance and the killer will look like a combination of the two sketches. What? Man, I'm nearly almost, but not quite, ready to buy the disguise theory I've always despised...:confused:
     
  13. heartgoesout

    heartgoesout Well-Known Member

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    We know of three people who saw BG. The witness he scowled at, the one who saw something he felt needed to be reported and said witness.
    We have a before siting (up close) and we have an after siting (distance). Those are going to be different since BG disguised himself with a scarf to hide his face. Then IMO hid the original clothes in a duffel bag. (You can see the bag handles coming out of the jacket in the BG pic IMO).

    Carter said "looking for a driver between the hours of noon and 5:00". By 5:00 the clothes would have been dry.
    This all makes sense.
    Now the last witness, since they were there, is able to agree but throw in the wrong hat, or the wrong eye color, change the hair, make it older, etc... he's there to help right?! he's the nice, local, good looking guy, why would he lie.
    All IMO.
     
  14. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    I suppose my hesitation with the disguise idea comes from my personal feeling that this crime was most likely impulsive. To have a disguise and duffel bag would mean a planned attack, but I suppose he could have carried that stuff around in his vehicle for whenever the right moment came about. So in a way, he still could have seen them dropped off, or whatever, and saw the opportunity to put his plan into action. IDK. For this killer to then change clothing, hang around the trail, and interact with other people, would make him a completely different kind of killer than the opportunistic, in and out quickly, striving to leave unseen kind of killer I've always imagined.

    I guess LE might be more apt to speak in code to a killer who immerses himself into the investigation in that way, as well. I'm willing to consider this scenario for awhile, but I have to be honest that it feels too Phantom of the Opera for me. That said, there are a lot of unhinged people in the world that do a lot of odd things...
     
  15. minazoe

    minazoe Well-Known Member

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    I can totally see JBC going to the search or presser even...talking to cops or neighbors to suck in the horror and reaction to his accomplishment. He is completely shameless, I think it's not unusual...it's part of the pathology, like the staging..as a sadist he gets secondary supply from this. mOO
     
  16. StarryStarryNight

    StarryStarryNight Well-Known Member

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    I snipped some of your post.

    The hat is important. I think it is a welder’s hat people couldn’t quite describe to the sketch artist. And Chadwell is a welder.
     
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  17. heartgoesout

    heartgoesout Well-Known Member

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    The human brain tries to understand why this happened. The unimaginable! We tend to think this is someone who looks like a monster. That'd we'd be able to pick him out. Many killers are attractive and charming.

    The disguise is simply heavy clothing and a scarf over his face. Not a halloween mask. The speculatory duffel bag has hunting stuff in it. Typical stuff. The disguise wasn't really a disguise, as he was hiding in plain sight.

    There was very little interaction. BG scowled at a girl on his way in. Then was seen, IMO, post crime out of the BG clothing.

    If he needed to hide behind the forestry or the shack on the trail in his escape, he had the patience to do that. Carter said the car was there until 5:00

    I don't think this was random. It was certainly opportunistic, hedonistic and about power.
     
  18. heartgoesout

    heartgoesout Well-Known Member

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    Another thing to consider is that BG was very direct. "Down the hill".
    I don't know what would have been down the hill. There could have been a police training camp down the hill.
    He knew exactly where he was taking them.
    This was not random, this was planned IMO.
     
  19. waltzingmatilda

    waltzingmatilda Verified Insider-Roy Moore

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    Good call on the welders hat,@StarryStarryNight I looked on Amazon and had no idea there were so many styles.
     
  20. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I must have seen this before, but I had forgotten it.
     
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