Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #137

[Charlot123]

Picture an excel spreadsheet with each case getting its own individual row. The date would be in the columns, and columns can be unlimited. Think dates, locations, victimology, any relevant info really. Another similar table could be setup for tips and suspects. Those databases can then be linked by time and or location for cross reference.

Yes I am thinking of it.

I'm always thinking of any opportunity, that JBC in case A/L worked together with the real killer, maybe even not the first time. I can't figure out, whether and how it would have been possible .......

I swear I was thinking about of it for the last year. I don't know how the two are connected, but chances are, not financially. Maybe one of them is from Midwest, or lived there long enough to speak with the accent, if needed. And the other one is either manipulated into it, or just enjoys it but it is enough for him to watch? Some form of mutual enjoyment? And if someone else suffers, like the parents of the victims, they get additional kicks?

Maybe they need one another to provide some alibi? One thing is, I don't believe they'd ever leave the car next to the spot. Probably, somewhere mid-way and then, walk?

 

[Charlot123]

Specifically on the 13th of the month

That I am not 100% sure of. An opportunity is an opportunity. I believe it is an urge, not a date. However, both June 1, 2015 (Alicia Hummel's case) and February 13, 2017 were one day away from the full moon.

Remember how RL said about the area being lit so brightly at night? Maybe it was the moonlight? Waning Gibbous, Waxing Gibbous... they both produce 98% illumination.

 

[heartgoesout]

LE has repeatedly stated there is no connection with Evansdale. If I had to guess why they are so confident about that, it would be because they know who BG is and are able to confirm he was not in Evansdale that day. IMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

Any similar types disappearing in 2019 or 2021? 2011?

RSBM

Serenity Dugard went missing from Rockerville SD in February 2019. She ran away but if this is the work of a serial predator I can’t see him turning down a child on the run.

 

[minazoe]

My “profile” is in conflict with most of this. I should preface with MOO and acknowledge that I am biased due to the similarities to Evansdale (the case that brought me here).

The similarities are too much for me. The hunting grounds are the same.

- Generally safe public recreational sites. People feel comfortable here, more specifically people feel comfortable leaving children their relatively unsupervised.

- In this generally safe area, there is a secluded location suitable for executing a stealth attack with high probability of success. A&L we’re essentially trapped, L&L we’re in a tunnel of sorts (heavy vegetation).

- This generally safe recreational area is located next to a relatively major highway.

I firmly believe the cases are related. Either the same killer, or a copycat of sorts. If I were a psychotic waste of oxygen and wanted to do something like this, I’d probably study similar unsolved crimes for tips on getting away with it.

I’m sure many have, but I’d be interested in researching attempted and successful abductions/murders from similar sites across the midwest. My focus would be one similarities in the hunting ground.

yes to all of this, some of us here believe the cases are connected. :0). Nice to meet you!

 

[minazoe]

MOO find the voice very similar. MOO JBCs got the E/SE Indiana - W Kentucky accent.

KIN tuckie

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Taken from LE statements.
-Someone hiding in plain sight.
-Someone younger.
-Local & well known that the community will be shocked.
-Someone who has spoke with LE and privy to the direction of the case.
-Not in the system so has not committed serious crimes before.
-A coward. Organized killer associated with power.
-Has caring family. ("what will those closest to you think")
-Noticeable changes in behavior or appearance.
-Has a little bit of conscience left.

All of this stuff seemed so important in April 2019. I think time has shown us it signified nothing.

-Someone hiding in plain sight
I don’t believe this anymore. It defies logic in my opinion that this killer lives among the good folks of Delphi and they don’t recognize him on that bridge.

-Someone younger
Yes. The two second video shows BG is not some pot bellied older guy.

-Local and well known that the community will be shocked.
Don’t believe it for a minute. Locals do not know this person.

-Someone who has spoken with LE and privy to direction of case.
Possible but LE is hinting here that the killer is a twisted guy who is feasting off his crime by hanging out with LE. They might have talked to him but I think he’s more likely to just be smirking at LE’s ineptitude.

-Not in the system so has not committed serious crimes before.
Maybe but unlikely

-A coward. Organized killer associated with power.
Definitely a coward but thinks he’s a big man. Impulsive rather than organized. Opportunist. I do not think the killer is some criminal genius.

-Has a caring family(“what will they think...?)
I doubt it, but concede it’s 50/50 chance.

-Noticeable changes in behavior or appearance
Possibly

-Has a little bit of conscience left
I doubt this.

Just my opinions, but I think too much time has passed for any of this to matter anymore.

 

[FromGermany1]

LE has repeatedly stated there is no connection with Evansdale. If I had to guess why they are so confident about that, it would be because they know who BG is and are able to confirm he was not in Evansdale that day. IMO

bbm
Then they should also be able to know, if he was in the Delphi/MHB area on Febr 13th 2017 between noon and 5pm.

 

[JnRyan]

Too many victims?

I think LE needs people who can recognize patterns. I know some, and they all, if you ask me, are employed in wrong areas; anyhow, their pattern-recognizing ability is not used.

(One recognizes not only patterns, but breaks in them, too).

For criminology, or any profession where analysts are needed, it is a gift, but no one puts it in job description. AFAIK.

This might require a separate work group in LE as an investigator or investigative team may get tunnel vision and either not look at other crimes or not look hard enough. I remember reading Vincent Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter" about the Charles Manson murders. He pointed out that the team working on the Tate murders and the team working on the LaBianca murders were working side-by-side in the same office and were failing to make a connection between the two sets of crimes in spite of similarities between the two crimes. I often wonder if there are other murders out there committed by this killer that are being missed assuming this might be a serial killer. There are known weaknesses in the FBI's ViCAP (Violent Criminal Apprehension Program) system that can allow another crime to fall through the cracks.

 

[minazoe]

you guys..JBC has killed before and has not been caught...that is almost guaranteed...it's almost guaranteed because he did attempt to murder this child..this is not some out of the blue lapse of judgement..the odds are JBC is a murderer and has open cases that can be attributed to him..

I really wish we would get some hot tea..must be very very difficult to investigate all of the pathways and places he has camped out, stayed at..people's sofa's..what will records show ? and could living victims also be coming forward? I don't feel like he lets his victims live..as a rule...
I feel his exes will have something to say. mOO

 

[JnRyan]

Picture an excel spreadsheet with each case getting its own individual row. The date would be in the columns, and columns can be unlimited. Think dates, locations, victimology, any relevant info really. Another similar table could be setup for tips and suspects. Those databases can then be linked by time and or location for cross reference.

That would definitely work but I'm thinking Access rather than Excel. (Same theory, same process you propose, just a personal preference for a different tool.) The question in my mind is where one would go for the data? The FBI's ViCAP has weaknesses as some LE agencies simply choose not to use it and it isn't mandated as of the last time I checked. Someone on another thread mentioned the Murder Accountability Project, but I've checked actual cases against the MAP and found errors. This case is an excellent example as the MAP does not list any murders of teenagers in Carroll County in 2017. (MAP gets its raw data from the FBI.) Trying to find a pattern with incomplete data can be a problem in itself. NOT saying the analysis shouldn't be done. On the contrary I believe it should be done periodically as the data may be updated or new data added.

 

[JnRyan]

you guys..JBC has killed before and has not been caught...that is almost guaranteed...it's almost guaranteed because he did attempt to murder this child..this is not some out of the blue lapse of judgement..the odds are JBC is a murderer and has open cases that can be attributed to him..

I really wish we would get some hot tea..must be very very difficult to investigate all of the pathways and places he has camped out, stayed at..people's sofa's..what will records show ? and could living victims also be coming forward? I don't feel like he lets his victims live..as a rule...
I feel his exes will have something to say. mOO

I'm not totally onboard with JBC and the Delphi murders being connected. But JBC having committed murders somewhere else at another time? Oh, yeah, I can see that.

 

[fridaybaker]

you guys..JBC has killed before and has not been caught...that is almost guaranteed...it's almost guaranteed because he did attempt to murder this child..this is not some out of the blue lapse of judgement..the odds are JBC is a murderer and has open cases that can be attributed to him..

I really wish we would get some hot tea..must be very very difficult to investigate all of the pathways and places he has camped out, stayed at..people's sofa's..what will records show ? and could living victims also be coming forward? I don't feel like he lets his victims live..as a rule...
I feel his exes will have something to say. mOO

Minazoe: You are 100%, absolutely, on target with this.

This guy has an eight-page rap sheet, including aggravated assault. He assaulted a prison guard, was nearly charged with child abuse, and obviously has a sadistic streak, considering the horrific attack on the little girl and the material on his Facebook.

He is obviously a very violent person, and bold as brass in his willingness to commit violent crime: I believe that there is a similarity in the two crimes. Both are very bold. Abby and Libby were killed out in the open where anyone could hear, and the girl was kept in the basement and attacked while the cops were out combing the neighborhood. He talked both to a neighbor and cop, apparently, while the girl was in his basement.

 

[JnRyan]

LE has repeatedly stated there is no connection with Evansdale. If I had to guess why they are so confident about that, it would be because they know who BG is and are able to confirm he was not in Evansdale that day. IMO

To expand on that there is this from an interview between Fox59 and ISP 1st Sgt. Jerry Holeman in August 2017:
A: [9.21] And personality traits in a person like this, and that's I think what people have thought about before and maybe him, if there was just one person, is this the guy that was able to get both of these little girls in the woods and do these, you know, brutally murder them, do you think he possibly has done this before?

H: Uh, he could be, you know, that's, again, just kind of our theory or speculation, we have no evidence that he's done it again. But we do keep that in mind. We do check with other states to see if they have anything close; and obviously the case in Iowa is the closest; but they don't even know the cause of death in that one because they didn't find the victims until later. So, it's hard to compare. But it is similar, but, so, we have taken that into consideration as well, and we have investigated that. We've been in contact with Iowa and they have been in contact with us, and we've discussed that, but nothing else seems to be popping up around the nation that is similar to this. But that doesn't mean he is gonna kill everybody the same way every time, so (shrugs), we don't know.

[Taken from thread #65, post 186 transcript of that interview.]

 

[heartgoesout]

I know part of following true crime is being able to speculate, give opinion, go down rabbit holes and dig. WS'er do it best!
But when LE tells us absolutes...

Delphi, Iowa killings not believed linked
"Authorities investigating the killings of two teenage girls in Delphi say they've contacted Iowa police about the unsolved 2012 killings there of two cousins, but they don't believe the crimes are connected."

 

[buggiegirl]

look , even his own family thinks he's guilty..what does that tell you? can you imagine your own family saying they think you might be a serial killer?

not in a million years..right? even the shi&&iest family wouldn't do that..wouldn't rat you out or point at you and say yeah...lock up my bro...I think it's him..have at him! .NO WAY...I can't wait for the day because we will learn so much when they crimes are on trial and the details come out.

mOO

Sure, MY own family would not do that. Because I’m not a violent jerk with a history of criminal acts. But the family of a person who DOES have a violent history of crimes might!

 

[nch14]

I know part of following true crime is being able to speculate, give opinion, go down rabbit holes and dig. WS'er do it best!
But when LE tells us absolutes...

Delphi, Iowa killings not believed linked
"Authorities investigating the killings of two teenage girls in Delphi say they've contacted Iowa police about the unsolved 2012 killings there of two cousins, but they don't believe the crimes are connected."

LE gains nothing by showing their hand. I don’t think they would acknowledge the connection if there were one.

 

[Charlot123]

This might require a separate work group in LE as an investigator or investigative team may get tunnel vision and either not look at other crimes or not look hard enough. I remember reading Vincent Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter" about the Charles Manson murders. He pointed out that the team working on the Tate murders and the team working on the LaBianca murders were working side-by-side in the same office and were failing to make a connection between the two sets of crimes in spite of similarities between the two crimes. I often wonder if there are other murders out there committed by this killer that are being missed assuming this might be a serial killer. There are known weaknesses in the FBI's ViCAP (Violent Criminal Apprehension Program) system that can allow another crime to fall through the cracks.

Makes me wonder.

Imagine this. He lives, say, in Illinois. Commits a crime in Indiana and soon moves to Oregon. Everyone is looking for a person from Delphi neighborhood to suddenly relocate, but he relocates from Illinois. Too far to be noticed. Then he kills/disappears someone in WA. Then he moves from Oregon to Texas. Kills in Oklahoma...etc.

He is always one state away. I think he might even keep a certain pattern, how many states away from the target one.

 

[Zabble]

Makes me wonder.

Imagine this. He lives, say, in Illinois. Commits a crime in Indiana and soon moves to Oregon. Everyone is looking for a person from Delphi neighborhood to suddenly relocate, but he relocates from Illinois. Too far to be noticed. Then he kills/disappears someone in WA. Then he moves from Oregon to Texas. Kills in Oklahoma...etc.

He is always one state away. I think he might even keep a certain pattern, how many states away from the target one.

This peaked my interest. A while ago I was looking for comparisons using Google Trends. Essentially you can input several search key words and then it shows you how often it's been searched. You can narrow down the results by geography such as state and city.

What struck me was that in the months leading up to the murder no one really searched "Monon High Bridge". However, I could see that someone googled for "Monon High Bridge" from Chicago, IL. I've attached a screenshot that shows this.

The following is speculation, but I think BG could potentially be from the Chicago area and have searched for suitable sites online, including the "Monon High Bridge".

Edit: I attached a second screenshot from Google Trends where it can be seen that keywords "Abigail Williams", "Libby German", and "Monon High Bridge" were all searched from Chicago in the months leading up to the murder.

 

[heartgoesout]

Super interesting. Did you tip that in?? Please do.
Someone who knows what they’re doing can hide all sorts of ways online.