Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #139

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otto

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the ISP press release /wanted announcement does not give a height or weight:

Delphi Homicide Investigation

later FBI release says 5'6" to 5' 10"

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/@@download.pdf

when I look at the pictures of BG, his head is down and then there is that that situation with his head/hat/hood(whatever it is) so it makes it difficult to determine where exactly his head ends IMO. Still, I would think some one who could measure the bridge ties could calculate his height, IMO.

Shadow, time of day, angle of the sun could be used to estimate height, but in this case we have to factor in that, as you say, he is not standing up straight. He seems to be slouching with his head/neck tilted down and forward, and his posture somewhat hunched or stocky. Perhaps he's hunched down on the bridge, and standing tall for police.

I'm not 100% convinced that there is an accomplice, although an accomplice hiding under the bridge would explain why the girls did not run when they got to the bottom of the hill.
 

Tiff23fr

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Remember this statement?

Why? “Because of all that has happened over these last 30 months, the information that we had received, the information that we knew, and I hope to one day be able to tell that story”.

“I really believe over time we are going to have an idea that we were onto something early on”

 

otto

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This is how I imagine it played out. The girls were dropped off and hiked the trail to the bridge. The suspect parked at the far end of the cemetery, where a vehicle could be obscured by trees. Police searched this area.

The suspect hiked the creek ridge to the start-side of the bridge. After the girls were at the midway point on the bridge, he started walking across the bridge, essentially causing them to continue to the end before turning back. Abbey and Libby must have realized that something was wrong, therefore the photos of Abbey on the bridge. Libby started recording for snapchat.

They were told to go down the hill. From there they crossed the creek (footprints were found near the creek) and presumably walked to the location where they were murdered (this is similar in the Evansdale murders).

After the murders, the suspect could quickly hike along the creek to the trail leading to his car. I'm thinking that serial murderers of random children plan for a quick getaway. In this case, that getaway was particularly important given how fast people were searching the area. I wonder whether family calling for the girls might have changed the murderers' plans - shortened the time to murder, clean the scene, and exit?

Yellow is girls, white is suspect.

upload_2021-12-9_21-0-47.png

upload_2021-12-9_21-6-28.png

He would have taken the backroads to get to the highway if he was still there when the searchers arrived.

upload_2021-12-9_21-16-52.png

Google Maps
 

DeDee

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This is how I imagine it played out. The girls were dropped off and hiked the trail to the bridge. The suspect parked at the far end of the cemetery, where a vehicle could be obscured by trees. Police searched this area.

The suspect hiked the creek ridge to the start-side of the bridge. After the girls were at the midway point on the bridge, he started walking across the bridge, essentially causing them to continue to the end before turning back. Abbey and Libby must have realized that something was wrong, therefore the photos of Abbey on the bridge. Libby started recording for snapchat.

They were told to go down the hill. From there they crossed the creek (footprints were found near the creek) and presumably walked to the location where they were murdered (this is similar in the Evansdale murders).

After the murders, the suspect could quickly hike along the creek to the trail leading to his car. I'm thinking that serial murderers of random children plan for a quick getaway. In this case, that getaway was particularly important given how fast people were searching the area. I wonder whether family calling for the girls might have changed the murderers' plans - shortened the time to murder, clean the scene, and exit?

Yellow is girls, white is suspect.

View attachment 325994

View attachment 325995

He would have taken the backroads to get to the highway if he was still there when the searchers arrived.

View attachment 325997

Google Maps

There is a light trail near where the bodies were located on RLs property that cuts straight across then up to the cemetery. The trail may have been made by deer and critters passing through and possibly by hunters, too. I no longer have access to my screenshots from the case, unfortunately. Even though LEO wants details about a car parked at CPS, I always thought the cemetery made the getaway best option.

When Grey Hughes worked on graphics of BG walking on MHB, he told us that when the FBI, Disney and whatever other companies were employed to work on the video file from Libby's phone, that BG was originally about the size of a dime. That explains why we have such a heavily pixelated image that cannot be enhanced any further.

It's about a 40 minute drive to the bridge from Peru. If KAK is BG, would he have to leave his home before Kelsi drove the girls to the bridge?

Jmhoo
.
 

penguinface

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the ISP press release /wanted announcement does not give a height or weight:

Delphi Homicide Investigation

later FBI release says 5'6" to 5' 10"

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/@@download.pdf

when I look at the pictures of BG, his head is down and then there is that that situation with his head/hat/hood(whatever it is) so it makes it difficult to determine where exactly his head ends IMO. Still, I would think some one who could measure the bridge ties could calculate his height, IMO.

Shadow, time of day, angle of the sun could be used to estimate height, but in this case we have to factor in that, as you say, he is not standing up straight. He seems to be slouching with his head/neck tilted down and forward, and his posture somewhat hunched or stocky. Perhaps he's hunched down on the bridge, and standing tall for police.

I'm not 100% convinced that there is an accomplice, although an accomplice hiding under the bridge would explain why the girls did not run when they got to the bottom of the hill.

<modsnip - ref to a non approved YouTube>

As both of you, and many in the Youtube comments, mention, BG is slouching whereas they’re standing up straight, so I think he’s maybe two or three inches taller than they conclude.
 
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Charlot123

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Isn’t it frightening? Anymore, I’m afraid to even make eye contact with people, let alone speak to someone. <modsnip> What is happening to people?

it was always in issue, even in pre-computer word, but today, kids would spend the whole day at the computer, without distraction. Their imaginary world gets bigger and bigger. I know guys who wouldn’t date because they are addicted to VR *advertiser censored*. Some people are marrying mannequins. Perhaps certain people are not connected enough to live humans, as opposed to VR subjects, to even feel the difference between alive and dead? Horrible to type it, but possible.
 
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Charlot123

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Nothing has connected the two double homicides, but plenty has been said about DNA. Like much of this case, it’s been ambiguous though. They have DNA, but it’s not clear whose it is or what it means. They discussed it in the anniversary special last year, and said they have DNA but are unsure if it belongs to the killer. I will have to search for the video.

This statement was definitive back in March 2017.

“Investigators are anxiously awaiting full DNA test results being compiled by FBI forensic analysts.”

Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe | Fox 59

I am wondering if not only can they not find “relative” DNA in Gedmatch, but whatever they see about this “Delphi DNA”, like Y-clade, or mito, would usually belong to a person of another ethnicity? The BG, as much as can be seen, looks Caucasian. If the Y-group, or mito, or both, do not belong to what is expected in mainstream Hoosiers, it could explain all early talks about “adoption”, or something along these lines. When Hole spoke about the long road ahead of ISP, i had too explanations: a) wait till the technology is available, or b) go through a huge database of people in the search of the pattern explaining this DNA. Maybe the latter.
 

Charlot123

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I think BG very well could be KAK.
His chubby face eliminates a neck.
He's bulging through his jacket and about to pop the buttons off.
He's a very sick individual simply based on what we've learned this week.

View attachment 325983 View attachment 325984 View attachment 325985

Sources: https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...-was-on-the-walking-trails-monday-near-delphi
Kegan Kline: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

What resembles KK on BG video is short neck. Otherwise, impossible to say.
 

otto

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There is a light trail near where the bodies were located on RLs property that cuts straight across then up to the cemetery. The trail may have been made by deer and critters passing through and possibly by hunters, too. I no longer have access to my screenshots from the case, unfortunately. Even though LEO wants details about a car parked at CPS, I always thought the cemetery made the getaway best option.

When Grey Hughes worked on graphics of BG walking on MHB, he told us that when the FBI, Disney and whatever other companies were employed to work on the video file from Libby's phone, that BG was originally about the size of a dime. That explains why we have such a heavily pixelated image that cannot be enhanced any further.

It's about a 40 minute drive to the bridge from Peru. If KAK is BG, would he have to leave his home before Kelsi drove the girls to the bridge?

Jmhoo
.

I'm guessing that the catfishing was intended for that day, Feb 13, 2017, at a specific time. He would have had to leave home earlier than the girls. It's likely that Libby shared information with her murderer - that students had a day off that day.

Does anyone have handy the time that they were dropped off and the time that family arrived to search? I have a vague memory of 6:30 that searchers arrived.
 

iamnotagolem

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I'm guessing that the catfishing was intended for that day, Feb 13, 2017, at a specific time. He would have had to leave home earlier than the girls. It's likely that Libby shared information with her murderer - that students had a day off that day.

Does anyone have handy the time that they were dropped off and the time that family arrived to search? I have a vague memory of 6:30 that searchers arrived.
From the timeline thread:
On Monday, February 13, 2017 around 1:00- 1:30pm, Liberty German and Abigail Williams were dropped off near an abandoned railroad bridge known as "Monon High Bridge," east of Delphi to hike in the area. The girls were dropped off by Liberty's sister. The girls were not in school due to a scheduled day off (snow day not used), per the school calendar.

The girls were last seen in a photo posted to German's Snapchat account at 2:07pm showing Williams walking along the bridge. This was the last time anyone heard from either one of them.

The girls were supposed to meet at the same location to be picked up later in the afternoon between 3 and 3:30pm, but they never showed.

The family contacted police around 5:30 p.m. to report the girls missing. At 6.49pm on Monday, Abby's mother wrote a panicked post on Facebook for anyone who had seen the girls to &#8220;please contact myself or the sheriff&#8217;s department immediately! The girls haven&#8217;t been in contact for about three hours!!!!&#8221;.
 

otto

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Now that we know it was most likely catfishing, and not some random man who happened to be on the bridge (over-dressed for weather, hunched down, fake raspy voice) at the same moment the girls were on the bridge, we can look at the big picture differently. His primary contact with Libby prior to the murders was virtual, their planned meeting was the day before Valentines day (coincidentally the 13th day of the month, like Evansdale).

He planned to be there, he planned to commit murder of Libby and whatever friend was with her. He planned where to murder them. He planned a quick getaway - as criminals do - so his car was nearer to the bodies.

He knew he was going to walk across the creek and knew that he wanted to keep his feet dry. He knew that if they ran down the hill before him they could run in different directions to get away. He knew that if they ran down the hill before him they could run away together except if he had a gun. That would stop them in their tracks and they would comply - believing that compliance would buy them enough time to get away later.
 

otto

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From the timeline thread:

On Monday, February 13, 2017 around 1:00 - 1:30 pm, Liberty German and Abigail Williams were dropped off near an abandoned railroad bridge known as "Monon High Bridge," east of Delphi to hike in the area. The girls were dropped off by Liberty's sister. The girls were not in school due to a scheduled day off (snow day not used), per the school calendar.

The girls were last seen in a photo posted to German's Snapchat account at 2:07 pm showing Williams walking along the bridge. This was the last time anyone heard from either one of them.

The girls were supposed to meet at the same location to be picked up later in the afternoon between 3 and 3:30pm, but they never showed.

The family contacted police around 5:30 p.m. to report the girls missing. At 6.49pm on Monday, Abby's mother wrote a panicked post on Facebook for anyone who had seen the girls to please contact myself or the sheriff's department immediately! The girls haven't been in contact for about three hours!!!!.

Thank you!

1:00 - 1:30 PM: dropped off at trailhead by Libby's sister
2:07 PM: snapchat from Libby of suspect
3:00 - 3:30 PM: pickup from Libby's sister
5:30 PM: girls reported missing
6:49 PM: searchers in the area

Sunset was at 6:17 PM. They were probably dead around that time. Perhaps he was driving home by 6:20, arriving at 7 PM.

sunset peru indiana Feb 13 2017 - Google Search

I have read that abduction victims are usually dead within the hour, as with Molley Tibbetts, but if a pedophile murderer know that he has time with the victims, would he take more time?

If he abducted them at 2:15 PM, they walked to the scene of the murder in the next 20-30 minutes, the sun went down at 6:15 PM, he had four hours to assault, murder, clean up, get to his car and then drive the 40 minutes home.
 
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darkstar105

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It feels wrong to type this out, but, does anybody know how pedophiles get in contact with each other? Do they use secret Facebook groups or more secretive sites that I’ve probably never heard of? I have a strong feeling if it wasn’t KAK that was BG, it is definitely a pedo he knew. I’ve been doing some web scraping for his various profiles on traditional social media with no useful info found yet. I have to wonder if I’m looking in the wrong place.

My guess would be IRC (Internet Relay Chat) at least some of them.
 

Charlot123

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I believe he had an Android, not an iphone.

Androids track your activity a lot more than an iphone. If you have google, they basically track every single thing you do on your phone and log it through the android.

1) yes he did. Samsung Galaxy. But didn’t he also delete the apps from iPhone 5c?

What I want to say, if I were LE and polygraphed someone, and after taking the polygraph the person went home and started uninstalling apps, I’d view it as indication of lying, and a slap in the face. But they just let him go for 5 years?

It looks very strange.
 

otto

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1) yes he did. Samsung Galaxy. But didn’t he also delete the apps from iPhone 5c?

What I want to say, if I were LE and polygraphed someone, and after taking the polygraph the person went home and started uninstalling apps, I’d view it as indication of lying, and a slap in the face. But they just let him go for 5 years?

It looks very strange.

We don't know why police interviewed this suspect 10 days after the murders. Perhaps it was a routine inquiry into known pedophiles in the area. Today, we know that police have revisited earlier interviews and may have found a link to the murders.
 
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