Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #145

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TL4S

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This affidavit is a nice find for a defense attorney if there is ever an arrest. They can point to RL and since RL is now deceased that is very convenient.
Yeah, and if you watch those videos linked above, there he is with a voice "not inconsistent" with the audio, wearing a camo hat and blue jacket, his ex's saying he carried a gun in his fanny pack and him asking someone to lie for his alibi. LE would not be doing their job if they didn't look at RL.
 

cuecard

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Honestly, this whole case is just so confusing and has been since the day and hour it started. Regardless of what actually happened on that bridge, there are some incredible coincidences in there.

If it is really connected to RL, then the things that have come to light about KAK are peculiar coincidences. If KAK is really connected then the info contained in the warrant about RL are peculiar coincidences. Is it even somehow connected to both?

And just to further confuse myself I don’t actually think BG is either of them so I have no clue where I sit regarding this case right now. It is all just so bizarre and baffling. It’s hard to know what to think.

It just seems like there are giant red herrings and pitfalls everywhere in this case.
 

MassGuy

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Honestly, this whole case is just so confusing and has been since the day and hour it started. Regardless of what actually happened on that bridge, there are some incredible coincidences in there.

If it is really connected to RL, then the things that have come to light about KAK are peculiar coincidences. If KAK is really connected then the info contained in the warrant about RL are peculiar coincidences. Is it even somehow connected to both?

And just to further confuse myself I don’t actually think BG is either of them so I have no clue where I sit regarding this case right now. It is all just so bizarre and baffling. It’s hard to know what to think.

It just seems like there are giant red herrings and pitfalls everywhere in this case.
I think it's pretty obvious that this RL thing ultimately went nowhere. It's certainly curious that he was building an alibi right away, but their focus seems to be on KK right now.

The most important revelation for me is about the crime scene. The killer appears to have behaved like a serial killer (trophies, staging) although that isn't to say that he is one in reality.

Reading between the lines, it seems these girls were stabbed to death too. Glad to see there is apparently hair/fiber evidence at least.
 

Facinatingtimes

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Honestly, this whole case is just so confusing and has been since the day and hour it started. Regardless of what actually happened on that bridge, there are some incredible coincidences in there.

If it is really connected to RL, then the things that have come to light about KAK are peculiar coincidences. If KAK is really connected then the info contained in the warrant about RL are peculiar coincidences. Is it even somehow connected to both?

And just to further confuse myself I don’t actually think BG is either of them so I have no clue where I sit regarding this case right now. It is all just so bizarre and baffling. It’s hard to know what to think.

It just seems like there are giant red herrings and pitfalls everywhere in this case.
I agree - if it is one killer with no accomplice(s), and in no way related to RL or KAK or ashots….just wow.
 

justtrish

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Honestly, this whole case is just so confusing and has been since the day and hour it started. Regardless of what actually happened on that bridge, there are some incredible coincidences in there.

If it is really connected to RL, then the things that have come to light about KAK are peculiar coincidences. If KAK is really connected then the info contained in the warrant about RL are peculiar coincidences. Is it even somehow connected to both?

And just to further confuse myself I don’t actually think BG is either of them so I have no clue where I sit regarding this case right now. It is all just so bizarre and baffling. It’s hard to know what to think.

It just seems like there are giant red herrings and pitfalls everywhere in this case.
You got that right! What are the chances?

Girls happen to have the day off from school AND it's warm enough in Indiana in mid February to enjoy a walk at a nature trail in a small town. Should have been fairly safe...

<modsnip>

There is an older man who happens to look like BG with property next to this trail AND he happens to ask a relative to lie about where he was for him during the time of this crime before he should even know there was a crime committed.

The girls just happen to be talking online and the last person known to interact with one of them was a perverted guy with a dad equally as disgusting who has been in trouble for CSAM. He was supposed to meet them, but they didn't show up (according to him)..

Broad daylight on a public trail.. nobody hears a thing, nobody sees a thing, they are found murdered 1400 feet from RLs residence.

The girls got video of the man..

Still not solved. What is the chance all this stuff is happening and it isn't even one of these suspicious people, but another person was in the area that did this? It's terrifying just how many "bad" people the girls had contact with or came in very close contact with in this one day alone.
 
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Falling Down

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Also wanted to point out that this released document has the exact GPS coordinates of the crime scene, for those who always wonder if the place reported in MSM or by LE is exactly where it was or merely an estimate (or purposeful misstatement). I mapped it and it is approximately below the cemetery. On the satellite map I looked at, which of course is particular to the time it was captured and may not be representative of the day they were killed - it was very near shallow places in the creek. It's in the general place that most people assumed it was, but I know there has been debate on this point.

Yes it helps. Also the insistence that the CS is a half mile or mile away from MHB is false, the private trail which follows the creek is under 3/8 of a mile, line-of-sight from the NW end of the bridge would be 1100 or so feet, and from the SE end of the bridge to the CS is roughly 550 feet.

People have made it out like he marched them a mile to the CS, when in reality it was around 550 feet.
 

Falling Down

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You got that right! What are the chances?

Girls happen to have the day off from school AND it's warm enough in Indiana in mid February to enjoy a walk at a nature trail in a small town. Should have been fairly safe...

<modsnip>

There is an older man who happens to look like BG with property next to this trail AND he happens to ask a relative to lie about where he was for him during the time of this crime before he should even know there was a crime committed.

The girls just happen to be talking online and the last person known to interact with one of them was a perverted guy with a dad equally as disgusting who has been in trouble for CSAM. He was supposed to meet them, but they didn't show up (according to him)..

Broad daylight on a public trail.. nobody hears a thing, nobody sees a thing, they are found murdered 1400 feet from RLs residence.

The girls got video of the man..

Still not solved. What is the chance all this stuff is happening and it isn't even one of these suspicious people, but another person was in the area that did this? It's terrifying just how many "bad" people the girls had contact with or came in very close contact with in this one day alone.

I'll add that the perp had to know a certain neighbor was not home that day.

BG did his homework before heading to the bridge that day, I can guarantee that much.
 
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Pimlipo

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If we hadn’t had the recent stuff on Anthony shots KK/TK what would this news make you think today? Considering we probably all ruled RL out a long time ago.
GK was always an interesting one. He knew RL and his property very well, and was arrested for murder just weeks before the ‘switch in gears’ April 2019 press conference and sketch, which looks a bit like him. His girlfriend also lived in Delphi.
I know we all probably know this and have been down these roads years ago. But this news today makes everything feel questionable again.

You would like to think LE would clarify the latest rumour mill, what with RL now deceased, but the Murder Sheet said that LE redacted what they wanted to before they allowed them to release it yesterday so LE are obviously quite happy to let us all speculate using these names and scenarios. Same goes for the TK rumour mill. LE knows what this online Delphi community are like in speculating on a large scale on these people and they don’t seem to have wanted to make it slow down or stop. I find that interesting.
 

cuecard

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I think it's pretty obvious that this RL thing ultimately went nowhere. It's certainly curious that he was building an alibi right away, but their focus seems to be on KK right now.

The most important revelation for me is about the crime scene. The killer appears to have behaved like a serial killer (trophies, staging) although that isn't to say that he is one in reality.

Reading between the lines, it seems these girls were stabbed to death too. Glad to see there is apparently hair/fiber evidence at least.
I just find the coincidences between it all very bizarre. Like I said, I don't believe RL or KAK is BG. Just a hunch and feeling I've always had regarding both of them. For whatever reason RL was dropped as a suspect and the investigation was taken in an entirely different direction in 2019. What that reason was, we don't know. But I think this warrant itself just shows how much we don't know.

I go back and forth about BG's offending style. He may be a serial killer or he may be a one and done type of offender, at this stage we simply don't know since it seems like no other crime has been linked to him as of yet.
 

cuecard

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You got that right! What are the chances?

Girls happen to have the day off from school AND it's warm enough in Indiana in mid February to enjoy a walk at a nature trail in a small town. Should have been fairly safe...

<modsnip>

There is an older man who happens to look like BG with property next to this trail AND he happens to ask a relative to lie about where he was for him during the time of this crime before he should even know there was a crime committed.

The girls just happen to be talking online and the last person known to interact with one of them was a perverted guy with a dad equally as disgusting who has been in trouble for CSAM. He was supposed to meet them, but they didn't show up (according to him)..

Broad daylight on a public trail.. nobody hears a thing, nobody sees a thing, they are found murdered 1400 feet from RLs residence.

The girls got video of the man..

Still not solved. What is the chance all this stuff is happening and it isn't even one of these suspicious people, but another person was in the area that did this? It's terrifying just how many "bad" people the girls had contact with or came in very close contact with in this one day alone.
The whole picture of this case is difficult to get your head around. It is honestly one of the most bizarre cases I have ever come across. Every time you think you are starting to get the whole picture, a piece of the puzzle falls away and you're back to where you started.
 
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Nobody_special

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Really interesting in light of what’s come out today.
Added to the fact LE had the idea in March 2017 that the bodies had been posed/staged at the crime scene in order to possibly be “photographed to later be downloaded onto electronic storage devices for later viewing, scanning or copying.”
It seems pretty obvious to me that Barbara/HLN has some inside information and had likely seen this affidavit when she interviewed KAK.

Does that mean that RL committed the murders? I seriously doubt it but I do have to admit that I think that he makes a more believable BG than KAK or TK and the alibi request, coupled with Barbara’s “interesting,” does make me curious as to whether or not he may have at least been aware of the murders by 9:20 the next morning. Maybe he actually saw something but was afraid that finding the bodies on his own property would indeed make him the prime suspect?

Regardless, I know I have more questions now than I did yesterday.
 
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Ravenmoon

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Didn't RL give permission for people to search his property around 6:30 PM , the evening of the 13th?

Is it possible that he did a little searching of his own and found the bodies that evening?
Could that explain the 2 texts that night and the call to his cousin in the morning?

I just can't fathom RL as a mastermind killer that left 2 kids in the back acreage of his home . He has a violent history with women- but nothing on this scale- including keeping trophies and some type of possible photo/video.

The FBI would have nailed RL if he was the perpetrator IMO.

JMO
 

abams

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This affidavit is a nice find for a defense attorney if there is ever an arrest. They can point to RL and since RL is now deceased that is very convenient.

I'm sure any prosecutor will anticipate that and be able to show how/why they moved on from him. LE were clear at the time that RL's property search was one of a number of searches in connection with the Delphi case and if they didn't thoroughly investigate and clear this guy, any defendant later tried for these murders would naturally point to RL, for one, anyway.

I am hung up on why he wanted to establish an alibi for the specific times he did, though. And the reporter questioning KAK on whether he or his father knew RL. Just speculating but maybe RL saw/knew something or someone took advantage of knowing RL.
 

iamnotagolem

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I guess there are things about this RL affidavit that might have made more sense back in 2017, but now, it doesn't fit. The first sketch and description was still too young to be RL. In the April 2019 PC, LE released a new, younger sketch and discussed a vehicle parked in the CPS lot. What reason would RL have to park at a lot farther away than his own driveway?

Later, as recently as 2020, LE was interviewing KAK, telling him he was the last person to talk to L on the day they died, as a_shots. They've had two public asks specific to a_shots.

Then, we have BMcD asking KAK if he and his dad knew RL. Was that just a random question, or did she know something we don't? Maybe RL was caught up in the CSAM case, on some level. Who knows, but in the last few months, LE is not asking about RL, they are asking about a_shots.

ETA: Which odds are better? A 77 year old man knowing he might get caught on a probation violation lying and using his phone on his own property? Or a younger man charged with CSAM, who admittedly groomed young girls, including L, who lied and followed the case closely, and whose fake profile was the last to speak with one of the murder victims?
I think BM asking KAK about RL speaks volumes. If RL killed the girls then he was very good at covering his tracks.

I think it’s much more likely that TK & RL were both involved (or RL knew or assumed who killed them) and KAK helped facilitate the CSAM, while AS was the last to talk to LG, I personally don’t think it was KAK, but someone else with access to the account.

Has anyone come across anything indicating a connection between TK & RL? Did they hunt together? Did TK hunt on RLs land?

Are none of the above involved in the murders but just all suspicious because of their varied connection to the crime scene or girls?
 

steeltowngirl

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I think BM asking KAK about RL speaks volumes. If RL killed the girls then he was very good at covering his tracks.

I think it’s much more likely that TK & RL were both involved (or RL knew or assumed who killed them) and KAK helped facilitate the CSAM, while AS was the last to talk to LG, I personally don’t think it was KAK, but someone else with access to the account.

Has anyone come across anything indicating a connection between TK & RL? Did they hunt together? Did TK hunt on RLs land?

Are none of the above involved in the murders but just all suspicious because of their varied connection to the crime scene or girls?

Or any link between KK and GK? GK and RL knew one another.

Also thinking back to the Bicycle Bridge warrant. Did that have something to do with the idea that the girls were moved?

Sure wish there was more information about RL’s cousin.
 

Prime8

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The FBI agent's take on the video is that BG is "a White Male wearing a blue jacket, with a heavy physical build, wearing a cap and blue jeans". Does that settle the hat vs. hair debate?
IMO, it does not. I think the fact that the OBG sketch shows the cap and the YBG sketch does not, it could indicate that they just don't know. I think if they knew for sure, they would let the public know.
 

Prime8

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Thank you for that piece of information.


But still another thing thing that doesn’t make sense to me is what’s the point of someone giving an alibi for a different time of day since LE would be far more interested in the store receipt or CCTV at the aquarium store to prove when someone was there.
I think this speaks to RL trying to cover something up and not being super sophisticated. He's not thinking about an alibi for a crime, just that he was in violation at the time of the crime. I've been thinking about how he asked for an alibi for later in the day, but not the morning of the 13th. Yes, it's super suspicious that he asked for it prior to the girls being found but I think this could be explained by the fact that the there was a huge community and news outreach for the search for the girls. I'm sure the timeline of when the girls went missing, 3pm, was public knowledge pretty early on. So he's not panicking about covering a crime, just that 3pm time period where he was breaking the law.
 
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