Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #145

[curiousLR]

I followed this case for years but have not kept up recently but excuse me…..

“Indiana State Police said in February they know who killed the girls, but say they have insufficient evidence to make an arrest.”

February of this year?

From: New details of Delphi Bridge Murders reveal victims died in bloodbath

Ugh the Daily Mail. They appear to be referring to what Kegan Kline said in his interview with Barbara Mitchell. He claimed that LE told him they knew his dad did it. I don't put much stock in anything he says, and if LE did say that, big if, it was probably an interrogation tactic.
Law Enforcement has never publicly stated they know who did it. Doug Carter specifically stated in February he wouldn't go that far (when asked if they knew who BG was).

 

[photographer4]

the suspect is how old 77? yeah if he was I dont know how well he could take on two young girl's? wish LE would just release everything it can't hurt at this point its gone cold so doing that can only help.

If LE released everything, they’d never get a chance at a successful conviction. That could hurt things! If the perp is still alive and not already behind bars, what’s going to stop him from doing this again?

 

[Cryptic]

This is an excellent point -- and one I think argued pretty convincingly against RL as the culprit. His violence based on the affidavit seems reactive and not deliberate. He was clearly a dangerous man, but his anger and threats seem to have been directed against women he had a relationship with and felt offended by -- this was not a planner.

Well said.

RL was probably prone to bully and dominate physically weaker individuals who placed himself in his orbit. These people were then attacked if / when they angered him.

RL as a "reactive" verse a "deliberate" in regards to aggression could probably be confirmed by interviewing his former romantic relationships. Then noting whether RL's aggression occurred when RL mixed alcohol and an argument or, if he attacked with out provocation.

Likewise, I think there would have been a build up if RL was moving from being an alcohol fueled "reactive" to a "deliberate" with say, a power or control motive.

For example, RL starts to intimidate female trail users, but does not harm them. Presents himself as a "security guard" and enjoys ordering people off the bridge. Maybe graphically warns hikers about "possible" dangers. Or, starts to patrol for trespassers and then aggressively confronts them etc.

Instead, RL appeared to show little interest in the nature center or its users and continued to direct his aggression solely against people in his orbit.

 

[photographer4]

Why would the FBI agent write there was no struggle if they did fight back?

I wonder if it comes down to a keyword? “Visible”.
This begs the question visible to whom and at what point? So are they talking about no signs of a struggle on the victims bodies? EG no defensive injuries, no bumps, bruises, broken bones obvious at the scene? No visible signs of a struggle at the scene itself? No disturbed areas of land? I didn’t read the entire warrant, so if that was covered, then forgive me.

The kids were murdered. Unless they were already rendered unconscious somehow then how is there no visible sign of a struggle? You mean to tell me the kids just stood or sat there and allowed it all to happen? I’m doubtful of this. If you’re in a choke hold, you’re going to try to breathe and you’ll struggle. If you’re being restrained, you’re going to try to get out of the restraints. These would leave signs. If you’re been hacked at, you’re putting your arms up defensively unless you’re restrained. If you’re being drowned, you’re going to thrash around, there’d be signs of that on the body.

The only way there are no visible signs is if the kids were dead so fast they had no time to react or if he drugged them then killed them whilst they were unconscious in my mind but I’m open to ideas that oppose my views, so please, fire away!

 

[Spartygirl]

I wonder if it comes down to a keyword? “Visible”.
This begs the question visible to whom and at what point? So are they talking about no signs of a struggle on the victims bodies? EG no defensive injuries, no bumps, bruises, broken bones obvious at the scene? No visible signs of a struggle at the scene itself? No disturbed areas of land? I didn’t read the entire warrant, so if that was covered, then forgive me.

The kids were murdered. Unless they were already rendered unconscious somehow then how is there no visible sign of a struggle? You mean to tell me the kids just stood or sat there and allowed it all to happen? I’m doubtful of this. If you’re in a choke hold, you’re going to try to breathe and you’ll struggle. If you’re being restrained, you’re going to try to get out of the restraints. These would leave signs. If you’re been hacked at, you’re putting your arms up defensively unless you’re restrained. If you’re being drowned, you’re going to thrash around, there’d be signs of that on the body.

The only way there are no visible signs is if the kids were dead so fast they had no time to react or if he drugged them then killed them whilst they were unconscious in my mind but I’m open to ideas that oppose my views, so please, fire away!

I Agree.
Unless they were killed at the onset , the end of the bridge and after the "Down the hill", there has to be signs of some sort of a struggle.
Maybe not bruises or prints on their bodies, but I think there was a bit of a struggle, IMO

 

[hafom8840]

the suspect is how old 77? yeah if he was I dont know how well he could take on two young girl's? wish LE would just release everything it can't hurt at this point its gone cold so doing that can only help.

37 years older than the initial estimated age. Jeez.

 

[MuddyTires]

Not seeing why FBI Special Agent Nikkole Robinson would have lied in this sworn affidavit under penalty of perjury about LG and AW having no visible signs of struggle or flight.

 

[Charlot123]

The only way there are no visible signs is if the kids were dead so fast they had no time to react or if he drugged them then killed them whilst they were unconscious in my mind but I’m open to ideas that oppose my views, so please, fire away!

Respectfully snipped.

Or, if the kids don't expect the attack at all, fully trusting the attacker(s).

 

[Yvettea]

LG and AW having no visible signs of struggle or flight.

This would be more consistent with gunshots than with knife attack IMO

 

[gliving]

isnt it possible however ..that while the victim lost so much blood >>the crime scene could still be clean ?
cause that what RL said afterwards describing it..after le left of course
i mean is it possible..that the loss of blood was mainly due to examination of the bodies and due to horrific injuries ? or does it necessary mean the state of the said crime scene

He does say that. He's shown the crime scene, allegedly on his property, and describes it as "pristine".

CASAREZ: So did you go -- did you go out -- since this was your property, you find out that they are there. Did you go out to the crime scene yourself?

LOGAN: The crime scene has been closed off. It was not -- my property was not released back to me until late Wednesday. I went to the crime scene Thursday morning to try to get a feeling of it. And it`s still difficult to just...

What did you see when you went out there?

There was not much to see, other than the crime scene tape around the area. The area was still very pristine. You couldn`t actually tell
that there was any such a violent action.

CASAREZ: You didn`t see any blood? You didn`t see a gruesome scene?

LOGAN: No, nothing. The area was very, very pristine. There was nothing there to see. I mean, really...

CNN.com - Transcripts

So, they're killed at one location where nothing is evident, then moved to another location where there's a really bloody scene with 'posed' bodies. It's like, look over here and not back there.

I forget, did RL keep cattle on his acreage? I remember questions about a hired hand.

I thought the shoe was lost while being dragged to location #2.

 

[Andreee]

Respectfully snipped.

Or, if the kids don't expect the attack at all, fully trusting the attacker(s).

I really don't think it needs to be assumed or is of importance that the two victims struggled or didn't struggle! I would think if there was indeed a gun used, that most people would not struggle with that pointed at them! I certainly wouldn't think any less of any victim for reacting in a way that doesn't show so-called 'braveness.'

 

[monkey222]

When was the cousin asked to lie vs, when were the girls first reported missing? I am getting confused. Thanks

 

[Yvettea]

I really don't think it needs to be assumed that the two victims struggled or didn't struggle! I would think if there was indeed a gun used, that most people would not struggle with that pointed at them!

It seems irrelevant to include the statement about a struggle. Why would an FBI agent include that information in a search warrant?

 

[squareandrabbet]

This would be more consistent with gunshots than with knife attack IMO

… did anyone else in the vicinity of the Monon bridge report hearing gunshots, I wonder?

I wonder about strangulation or injection.

 

[Andreee]

It seems irrelevant to include the statement about a struggle. Why would an FBI agent include that information in a search warrant?

I don't know either.

 

[susiQ]

It’s been a couple of years since I’ve been here. Nice to see familiar names and avatars . After the April 2019 PC, I was so very sure, they would make an arrest within six months. And here we are…..

Just wondering about how the killer accomplished this without a struggle. If he had a gun and a knife, is it plausible that he ”marched” the girls down the hill single file, brandishing his gun? As the girls are walking down, watching their steps, he exchanges the gun for the knife, grabs the girl closest to himself around from the back, around her left arm across her chest grabbing her right arm and then slashing her throat or her carotid artery. I imagine shock would set in very quickly. He drops her, steps forward quickly and grabs the other, same thing . Once they were unconscious he moves them closer together for the staging. LE would know this from two significant deposits of blood. Another thought is that he grabbed the first in a similar fashion and covered her mouth to prevent a scream alerting the other? It would all happen SO fast. All MOO.

BG was well covered/dressed and therefore likely no DNA under the nails if the second did put up a struggle.

I really hate thinking about what he did to those girls . I just hope there will be an arrest at some point, sooner rather than later and that there is justice for Abby and Libby.

 

[Yvettea]

Yes, I’m concerned that any attempt to speculate about the circumstances of the girls deaths that attempts to reconcile a lack of struggle, a signicant amount of blood loss and the pristine nature of the crime scene per RL’s interview will only result in gruesome speculation that doesn’t promote the truth in the situation and works against respect for the victims. This is MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

When was the cousin asked to lie vs, when were the girls first reported missing? I am getting confused. Thanks

The girls were first found to be missing when they didnt meet their ride home from the trails around 3 pm on February 13th. LE were notified about their disappearance around 5:30 pm the same day.

According to the affidavit, RL asked his cousin to lie about accompanying him to an aquarium store in a nearby town, which LE calls an attempt to deceive and provide false information to investigators. The call from RL asking the cousin to lie about their activities on the previous afternoon was placed around 9:20 am on February 14th. The girls' bodies were located by searchers a little after noon on February 14th.

 

[IQuestion]

It seems irrelevant to include the statement about a struggle. Why would an FBI agent include that information in a search warrant?

Just a thought. The agent was trying to secure a search warrant and needed to put something in the report that would address the lack of DNA evidence, no foreign tissue/skin found under fingernails, no other bodily fluids found etc. IE, since the victims did not appear to have struggled, it would make it easier to get a search warrant issued that would allow for a search based on "contrived alibis" and lack of physical evidence. Now the FBI agents didn't have to worry about scratches, bruises or bite marks etc....they just needed to get on RL's property and have a look around because RL was manufacturing too many false alibis. I'm thinking the search warrant turned out to be a fishing expedition that ultimately did not provide 'any or enough info" to constitute an arrest.

 

[monkey222]

Thank you Yemelyn for the time clarification.