Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

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Trebor5591

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What did RL know that we don't? There is no way a guy decides that "oh crap! Two kids are missing in my area, and I have a criminal record, so I better get an alibi together!" before they're even found, let alone found dead on his property!!

So what did he know that we don't? RL may not have been the killer, or involved at all. Was someone looking to frame him? Did someone taunt him with evidence of what they'd done before the girls were found by searchers? What happened that RL needed an alibi for the specific time when the girls went missing to when he called his cousin to alibi him?? I'm not buying that this guy didn't know anything about the murders. Are you

This is just my opinion and speculation.

I believe that RL may have heard the murders (which too place about 1/4 mile (400 yards) from his home). He may have even seen the murderer. He apparently had enough negative interactions with LE that he thought to himself "I'd better have a verifiable alibi or LE may try to pin this crime on me." That's why I believe he lined up an alibi.

And he was arrested and jailed--but not for the murder. Under circumstances like these, I sort of understand why he didn't share what he saw with LE. In his eyes, LE weren't the "good guys", that one would want to help. They were a persecuting force to be wary of.

Just my opinion.
 

Snow_In _June

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This is just my opinion and speculation.

I believe that RL may have heard the murders (which too place about 1/4 mile (400 yards) from his home). He may have even seen the murderer. He apparently had enough negative interactions with LE that he thought to himself "I'd better have a verifiable alibi or LE may try to pin this crime on me." That's why I believe he lined up an alibi.

And he was arrested and jailed--but not for the murder. Under circumstances like these, I sort of understand why he didn't share what he saw with LE. In his eyes, LE weren't the "good guys", that one would want to help. They were a persecuting force to be wary of.

Just my opinion.
I think he was told to get out of dodge by person/s unknown to us. He did so because he was frightened I also think he knew who the perportrator/s were but not why. IMHO I dont think BG is RL but I think he knew who it could be.

S_I_J
 

sunshineray

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What did RL know that we don't? There is no way a guy decides that "oh crap! Two kids are missing in my area, and I have a criminal record, so I better get an alibi together!" before they're even found, let alone found dead on his property!!

So what did he know that we don't? RL may not have been the killer, or involved at all. Was someone looking to frame him? Did someone taunt him with evidence of what they'd done before the girls were found by searchers? What happened that RL needed an alibi for the specific time when the girls went missing to when he called his cousin to alibi him?? I'm not buying that this guy didn't know anything about the murders. Are you?
I think he might have first heard something. Maybe he was outside in his yard. Then he probably went and looked down towards the creek and saw something at a distance.

Do we know a time frame for when RL was asked if it was ok for people to search in his property?
 

m00c0w

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I think he might have first heard something. Maybe he was outside in his yard. Then he probably went and looked down towards the creek and saw something at a distance.

Do we know a time frame for when RL was asked if it was ok for people to search in his property?
I believe it was soon after he returned home. 6-6:30 or something like that.
 

Snow_In _June

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I think he might have first heard something. Maybe he was outside in his yard. Then he probably went and looked down towards the creek and saw something at a distance.

Do we know a time frame for when RL was asked if it was ok for people to search in his property?
reportedly 6:30 pm when he arrived home from tropical fish shopping
 

sunshineray

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BG almost certainly had blood on him per the RL warrant. He's just killed two kids in broad daylight. He's on private property and he has has to get out of there and get cleaned up or he's literally wearing the evidence of his crime. How's he do this? Did he clean up in the creek? How long do police think the killer was in the general area before he left?
That's what made that article where LE asked about anyone saw a man along the highway hitchhiking or a duffel bag laying somewhere so interesting. I always thought killer may have changed clothes.

 

Betty P

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BBM, I don’t know that those are mutually exclusive. I think RL could be BG but not the killer and not the catfisher.

In most cases you KISS (keep it simple s…) but this case seems like it’s anything but simple. KAK seems to have started the AS account but doesn’t seem to be the one who was talking to Libby. AS seems to be who catfished Libby, possibly luring her to the bridge. The catfish may or may not be the killer. RL seems to have been involved or aware of what happened but IMO probably not the killer.

RL may be BG, as stated above by @Barbieshell , maybe he chased the girls away as the were at the end of the bridge. Maybe when he heard later that day they were missing he freaked out for having encountered them and sending them “down the hill” and went looking for them, found them dead, then decided he needed an alibi.

But the chances of these poor girls encountering so much evil from multiple sources seems astronomical.

LE has implied or said that the audio recording from Libby's phone was continuous from the "down the hill" order until the murders were committed. So, whoever BG guy was, he was the guy who took them to the crime scene and killed them. If BG was not the killer, LE would know it from the recording. Since early days after the murder, LE has said that BG was the killer.
 

sunshineray

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reportedly 6:30 pm when he arrived home from tropical fish shopping
The thing that gets me is RL asking his cousin to lie he picked him up between 2-2:30 and Libby's picture of Abby on bridge posted at 2:07. Shortly after BG was on the bridge heading towards the girls. So that 2-2:30 probably includes the actual down the hill abduction time. It's also been mentioned one of the girls may have been dragged to the murder scene.

Maybe that's what RL heard, what drew his attention, the reaction of one of the girls to the other being incapacitated?

The only thing is why wouldn't a person yell down to seeing something, HEY WHAT'S GOIN ON!! That I wouldn't understand from a man in his 70's on his land...not doing that.

So maybe the lies all were just about him driving under probation?
 

m00c0w

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LE has implied or said that the audio recording from Libby's phone was continuous from the "down the hill" order until the murders were committed. So, whoever BG guy was, he was the guy who took them to the crime scene and killed them. If BG was not the killer, LE would know it from the recording. Since early days after the murder, LE has said that BG was the killer.
The entire clip is only 43 seconds long and “down the hill” is towards the end of the 43 seconds. We learned this from the HLN information, and part of that was reaffirmed in the affidavit.

It takes much longer than that to reach the crime scene from where they were on the bridge, much less 10 seconds or however long remained after “down the hill”. I do not believe there exists a recording of the murder, at least not by the girls.
 

MistyWaters

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LE has implied or said that the audio recording from Libby's phone was continuous from the "down the hill" order until the murders were committed. So, whoever BG guy was, he was the guy who took them to the crime scene and killed them. If BG was not the killer, LE would know it from the recording. Since early days after the murder, LE has said that BG was the killer.

That’d right, it’s been heavily speculated the audio was recorded (potentially ordering the girls “down the hill” represents a forced abduction) as a continuation of the video of the man on the bridge so that would be why the connection was made. Aside from murder which indisputably is considered “criminal behaviour”, IMO it’s the most logical assumption of what was “about to occur”. LE knows what other words were spoken even if they’ve chosen not to publicly release it.

BBM
“German’s quick thinking in the face of fear prompted Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocom to pronounce her a “hero.” That young lady is a hero, that is no doubt,” Slocom told reporters. “To have enough presence of mind to activate the video system on her cell phone to record what we believe is criminal behavior about to occur, there is no doubt in our mind that she is a hero.”
 

MistyWaters

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That's what made that article where LE asked about anyone saw a man along the highway hitchhiking or a duffel bag laying somewhere so interesting. I always thought killer may have changed clothes.


What duffel bag? In this case there’s a awful lot of details originally discussed as possible theories but were never stated by LE as factual.

“We're asking people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or someone walking. We're asking people that live in Logansport all the way to Lafayette, if they saw somebody late that afternoon, that evening of Monday the 13th, if they saw somebody walking down the roadway that just did not look like they should be there, or they're just a hitchhiker, we would like to talk to that person," said Sgt. Kim Riley, Indiana State Police.”
 

MichMan015

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RL has had LE attention from the beginning. Unfortunately they did not find any evidence that we are aware of that was any more incriminating than lying to a LEO. Police had certainly moved on from RL. As far as texts/calls etc from 2/13 or 2/14 I am surprised there were not more. I would think people and Ron would be talking about the missing girls and search etc. Remember that this is not anything close to normal activity for the area. By the time he got back from the fish store it was dark and I just don’t see him out wondering out back looking for the girls or roaming around the woods.
I also just don’t think he does this crime goes home changes clothes and decides it’s time to go to the fish store.

Michman015
 

m00c0w

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RL has had LE attention from the beginning. Unfortunately they did not find any evidence that we are aware of that was any more incriminating than lying to a LEO. Police had certainly moved on from RL. As far as texts/calls etc from 2/13 or 2/14 I am surprised there were not more. I would think people and Ron would be talking about the missing girls and search etc. Remember that this is not anything close to normal activity for the area. By the time he got back from the fish store it was dark and I just don’t see him out wondering out back looking for the girls or roaming around the woods.
I also just don’t think he does this crime goes home changes clothes and decides it’s time to go to the fish store.

Michman015
They would have only mentioned datapoints that were relevant to the warrant. If it would have revealed similar data, it may have been omitted. RL also strikes me as the type of person to still be using land line phones as well, so that may be where a large amount of conversation was happening as well.

JMO
 

sunshineray

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you know what worries me
. that they think BG can be 77 or 18 ! that image..that voice
also worries me is that they for whatever reason decided to drop the early witnesses on the trails
these are very bad signs on top of everything else
The early witness is where the current sketch YBG came from. And we still have ISP Carter's words that it could wind up BG is a combination of the OBG (first released) and YBG (second released and current) sketches combined.
 

Betty P

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This is just my opinion and speculation.

I believe that RL may have heard the murders (which too place about 1/4 mile (400 yards) from his home). He may have even seen the murderer. He apparently had enough negative interactions with LE that he thought to himself "I'd better have a verifiable alibi or LE may try to pin this crime on me." That's why I believe he lined up an alibi.

And he was arrested and jailed--but not for the murder. Under circumstances like these, I sort of understand why he didn't share what he saw with LE. In his eyes, LE weren't the "good guys", that one would want to help. They were a persecuting force to be wary of.

Just my opinion.

Also recall that the recently revealed search warrant made reference to LE thinking that the killer did something that sounded like taking photo or video. May or may not be relevant.
 

photographer4

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True. But the question remains: Why then was LE never able to point to RL as playing a role in the crime, even as a peripheral accomplice in some sense?
They may well have done so, and we just don't know it. We don't know what police know or when they found out about it. But I'm not going to be surprised to find out one day that RL knew or likely knew something that we didn't know. Do I believe he is the killer? I don't know. I'm on the fence and anything is possible. Would I believe he could have been some sort of accomplice or blackmailed into some role it in it? Sure. He didn't strike me as a trustworthy guy when I first saw him in the news walking through where the crime had taken place.
 

photographer4

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This is just my opinion and speculation.

I believe that RL may have heard the murders (which too place about 1/4 mile (400 yards) from his home). He may have even seen the murderer. He apparently had enough negative interactions with LE that he thought to himself "I'd better have a verifiable alibi or LE may try to pin this crime on me." That's why I believe he lined up an alibi.

And he was arrested and jailed--but not for the murder. Under circumstances like these, I sort of understand why he didn't share what he saw with LE. In his eyes, LE weren't the "good guys", that one would want to help. They were a persecuting force to be wary of.

Just my opinion.
I agree that he probably viewed LE as people to be careful of. I get that he felt threatened and didn't want to have the crime pinned on him. That all makes sense.

But then why is he calling his cousin up to concoct and alibi BEFORE the kids are even found?? At that point, all he knew at best was two kids were missing in the area of the bridge that he lived near. At the point when he called up his cousin, the kids weren't known to be *dead* yet. At least not to searchers or police. I don't think we can discount that he may have had good reason to concoct an alibi when he did. But I'd like to know what that exact reason was. And why he opted to do it when he did vs when the kids were found.

For all he knew, the kids were just out in the woods hurt or lost. You don't need an alibi if two kids are just hurt or lost in the woods, do you? You need an alibi if two kids are *abducted* from the woods near your house, or when two kids are found dead, in your backyard.
 

photographer4

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That's what made that article where LE asked about anyone saw a man along the highway hitchhiking or a duffel bag laying somewhere so interesting. I always thought killer may have changed clothes.

He almost certainly did in my opinion. I think he did the crime then washed up in the creek. Changed clothes and was on his way.
 
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