Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

[Marzipan]

Really having a deep think again about what SteeleTownGirl said (jumping off of what M00C0w said) with the flip that the cousin’s alibi was really for the cousin’s sake and that “cousin” could be approximate language for close person (or maybe friend of father). The man I’m not supposed to initial who killed two people and is in prison knew Logan and his property. And used hard drugs and could have needed money enough to be hired by the Klines to produce photos/video. This isn’t an entirely new idea. When I search back I see similar thought. This convict looks like BG to me and things are fitting.
Then again, I’ve had this feeling before. We could still find out someone we have never heard of is BG, whether any of these people we are talking about are involved or not.

 

[Falling Down]

The tv stations were running news on Libby and Abby and the girl from Detroit? fairly often. By late that evening, we were feeling a bit of dread. When morning came and they still hadn't been found, I really thought something bad had happened to them. I don't think it's unrealistic to think that RL could have the same thoughts.

There was an Amber Alert out of Gary that evening.

My thoughts on RL and that evening are he and other property owners were probably concerned, but there was no indication the girls were in danger. Additionally, the search in the gorge was closer to the bridge and a little west of it, if memory serves.

Why BG picked RL's property is anyone's guess, although the CS provides some concealment.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I just don’t see how a 77 year old man with a white fluffy mustache is video BG, OBG, or YBG. The witnesses that provided input into the sketch would have surely pointed out his big white mustache. Could it be as simple as this is a small town and many people were already talking and asking RL questions (including cops) early on given the proximity of his house and he got spooked and thought it prudent to secure his alibi even though the girls were not yet found?? I could see this being the case more than I can see RL being BG.

Thats a good possible explanation. Thing is LE certainly would’ve questioned RL about the false alibi so once again we’re mulling over information LE already knows. This crime will only be solved when they obtain the missing pieces to the puzzle which they don’t already have.

 

[Diddian]

There was an Amber Alert out of Gary that evening.

My thoughts on RL and that evening are he and other property owners were probably concerned, but there was no indication the girls were in danger. Additionally, the search in the gorge was closer to the bridge and a little west of it, if memory serves.

Why BG picked RL's property is anyone's guess, although the CS provides some concealment.

JMO

It's also possible that the location where the perpetrator(s) killed the girls was not a planned choice so much as a consequence of actions the girls took that were outside the perpetrator'(s') control. Suppose that one or both of the girls - despite having their hands restrained shortly after the "Guys... down the hill" command, as I think likely - broke away, ran to and crossed the creek in an attempt to escape and she was (or they were) chased and recaptured. So, the perpetrator(s) killed and left the girls' bodies within a private location in close proximity to where that recapture occurred.

The perpetrator may have planned for an entirely different location, perhaps easily reached from the side of the creek where he first confronted them, or even entirely distant from the MHB and associated trails (if he had a vehicle nearby, on the road under the bridge or at a nearby property).

 

[Sillybilly]

There was an Amber Alert out of Gary that evening.

My thoughts on RL and that evening are he and other property owners were probably concerned, but there was no indication the girls were in danger. Additionally, the search in the gorge was closer to the bridge and a little west of it, if memory serves.

Why BG picked RL's property is anyone's guess, although the CS provides some concealment.

JMO

I don't recall an Amber Alert and just for the record going forward, according to this, Sgt Riley explained why the case did not meet the criterion.

Delphi, Indiana missing girls: State Police say an Amber Alert would not have done 'any good'​

DELPHI, Ind. -- An Amber Alert for two missing Carroll County girls wouldn't have helped in this case, Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said Wednesday morning.

He also said it didn't meet the necessary criteria for an Amber Alert anyway.

 

[Yemelyan]

I don't recall an Amber Alert and just for the record going forward, according to this, Sgt Riley explained why the case did not meet the criterion.

Delphi, Indiana missing girls: State Police say an Amber Alert would not have done 'any good'​

I'm not the original poster but I think the "Amber Alert out of Gary, Indiana" on the same evening that Abby and Libby went missing that is being referred to here is this one: Amber Alert for missing Indiana teen

This was one approved while one for Abby and Libby wasn't granted. Interesting fact, the missing teen in that Amber Alert was actually suspected by LE of murdering her own mother.

 

[Ravenmoon]

RL died January 24, 2022.
DC said in an interview in February , 2022 something along the lines of: We know about you. We know A LOT about you. An arrest could be made today, maybe tomorrow , sleep well.
I really don't think he was talking to a deceased RL>.

AMOO

 

[sunshineray]

Where did you see that one of the may have been dragged to the murder scene? I don’t remember seeing it and must have missed it.

Sorry it took me awhile to find it again.
It's a Gray Hughes video, whom we're allowed to link, talking with that guy he trusts/has vetted who has information on a number of things. Examples are the touch DNA on one of the girl's sweatshirt shoulder, the killer being in the area while DG was looking for the girls and other things including Libby being dragged, wrists were badly bruised. Video is 3 hrs plus.


Time stamp for Libby being dragged is at 44:45

 

[sunshineray]

i meant the (young ) witness of the first sketch not the second ..
I dont care about what he says.. it doesn't make any sense...they say in the same breath that its two individuals

We don't know for sure the current sketch was from a young witness, do we? I always thought it could have been that guy working nearby who saw something he felt the need to report...the man who blows that fancy horn.

 

[sunshineray]

Also recall that the recently revealed search warrant made reference to LE thinking that the killer did something that sounded like taking photo or video. May or may not be relevant.

Betty, I just reread it and didn't see them stating that? Can you tell me the page please, thanks. Sorry, guess I'm having a senior moment

 

[sunshineray]

What duffel bag? In this case there’s a awful lot of details originally discussed as possible theories but were never stated by LE as factual.

See somebody walking near Delphi? Call police

If you saw a hitchhiker or somebody walking along roads in Delphi last week, the police would like to talk to you. You could help find who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

www.wrtv.com

“We're asking people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or someone walking. We're asking people that live in Logansport all the way to Lafayette, if they saw somebody late that afternoon, that evening of Monday the 13th, if they saw somebody walking down the roadway that just did not look like they should be there, or they're just a hitchhiker, we would like to talk to that person," said Sgt. Kim Riley, Indiana State Police.”

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

The search continues for the person who killed two teenage friends in Delphi one week ago.

www.google.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

There was an Amber Alert out of Gary that evening.

My thoughts on RL and that evening are he and other property owners were probably concerned, but there was no indication the girls were in danger. Additionally, the search in the gorge was closer to the bridge and a little west of it, if memory serves.

Why BG picked RL's property is anyone's guess, although the CS provides some concealment.

JMO

Thank you. Yes, the one out of Gary was the one I was thinking of. I didn't think 'Detroit' sounded quite right.

 

[Tealgrove]

We are all assuming he left his own hair, or the hair of an animal behind right? What if that isn't the case? What if he removed some hair from one or both kids and that is what was found? He may have cut some out, or pulled some out to keep as a trophy and in doing so, some may have been left at the scene.

In the interview with KAK he mentions that he was asked for a sample of his hair so I believe that would be for comparison sake.

In addition, didn’t the warrant indicate they were looking for fibres and hair?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I was curious about common sources of fibers and animal hair found at a crime scene. Considering both girls had a pet, did the fibers come from their own clothing?

Fiber - Crime Museum

The Federal Bureau of Investigation identifies fiber as the smallest unit of a textile material that has a length many times greater than its diameter. Fibers can be natural (derived from plants and animals) or synthetic (man-made). Plant-based fibers include cotton, flax, jute, and hemp. The...

www.crimemuseum.org

Fibers are gathered from a crime scene using tweezers, tape, or a vacuum. The most common sources of transferred fibers are clothing, drapes, rugs, furniture, and blankets. Once fibers are collected, they are brought to a lab and then placed under a microscope, where they are compared against fibers from a suspected source.

 

[Colorado303]

I dont think the police are blaming it on RL.

Rather, news channels are sensationalizing and hyping their "new" material. While the material does contain some new information regarding the victims and the circumstances of the crime, the core facts regarding RL seem to be old:

- RL was not a pleasant person and lied to the police. This contributed to him being a suspect to some degree.
- An FBI search warrant was served on his residence / property.
- The search warrant yielded nothing. RL also had a plausible explanation for his lies (prevent probation officer from learning that he was driving on a suspended license).

The investigation then moved on.....

I just jumped back into this thread after months away and I’m sure you’ve already discussed this to smithereens, but if LE doesn’t think RL is guilty they’ve likely made it a whole lot easier to defend the actual guilty party (s) should they ever be arrested. With the published evidence “The dead guy did it” will be hard a hard defense to overcome unless LE has a smoking gun all these years later.

I hope they know what they’re doing. And not using the info release as a test balloon to judge public reaction should they decide to call it solved and close the case.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

In the interview with KAK he mentions that he was asked for a sample of his hair so I believe that would be for comparison sake.

In addition, didn’t the warrant indicate they were looking for fibres and hair?

I never quite forget that LE requested PE's autopsy results. More than looking at him as a suspect, I always thought that request might hint at some forensic evidence they had to compare.

 

[CADwrest]

Really having a deep think again about what SteeleTownGirl said (jumping off of what M00C0w said) with the flip that the cousin’s alibi was really for the cousin’s sake and that “cousin” could be approximate language for close person (or maybe friend of father).

Snipped for focus.
Remember, though, the SW refers to the individual as a cousin. The SW isn’t going to use colloquial language like that, even if RL referred to him that way.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I never quite forget that LE requested PE's autopsy results. More than looking at him as a suspect, I always thought that request might hint at some forensic evidence they had to compare.

What do you suppose they were hoping to find from an autopsy that would tie him to the murders? Wouldn't DNA answer those questions?

 

[TL4S]

What do you suppose they were hoping to find from an autopsy that would tie him to the murders? Wouldn't DNA answer those questions?

I don't know. I always wondered if it mainly served as due diligence since PE had been previously tipped in to LE. But the request, either way, suggested there was forensic evidence in Delphi. I had hoped, anyway. Now we know they at least have hair and fiber.

 

[Tealgrove]

I was curious about common sources of fibers and animal hair found at a crime scene. Considering both girls had a pet, did the fibers come from their own clothing?

Fiber - Crime Museum

The Federal Bureau of Investigation identifies fiber as the smallest unit of a textile material that has a length many times greater than its diameter. Fibers can be natural (derived from plants and animals) or synthetic (man-made). Plant-based fibers include cotton, flax, jute, and hemp. The...

www.crimemuseum.org

Fibers are gathered from a crime scene using tweezers, tape, or a vacuum. The most common sources of transferred fibers are clothing, drapes, rugs, furniture, and blankets. Once fibers are collected, they are brought to a lab and then placed under a microscope, where they are compared against fibers from a suspected source.

Animal hair contains DNA just the same as human DNA. If there was a root present, the girls’ pets could be excluded as contributors based on a DNA test.

No root, then a side by side comparison could determine if the hair came from the same animal. This examination could also exclude family pets.

Examination and testing could also determine type of animal, ie, dog, cat, cow etc.

If family pets are excluded via either of these methods, the contributor (if known) could be included as the contributor.

Fascinating stuff what can be done with a single hair.