Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

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smith72

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What are the odds that RL knew TK do we think? I feel like it's far more likely, age wise, that RL would've been in connection with TK as opposed to KAK.

Or could it have been that BG was notorious enough to be someone RL knew he didn't want to mess with, if he heard BG committing the crime? Or if he hadn't notice but was at home then, was RL's property large enough that he might not have noticed the killer washing up on his property?
 

DrQ

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JMHO If KK has no connection with the murder of these two innocents he certainly has a checkered past with a known connection (but lacking connected dots). He lied (on more than one occasion), deleted apps from the phone (he lied about), and lived the life of someone who knows it is harder to hit a moving target. Some times the earlier connections turn out to be the best.
As for the signs of struggling or lack there of, (IMO) that can account for many different things happening at once. These were two young girls where an adult was still an authority figure. Something was amiss because the spidy sense kicked in for the taking of the picture and voice. Whatever was happening and for whatever reason, they found themselves in a position of not being able to get away. No one knows how they will react if held at gun/knife point much less being a young teen. There are many loose ends and coincidences which we know LE doesn't want.
I am not LE but in my other life with the gov, I have seen many situations. WS is my only group vice. I leave no other carbon foot print.
 

girlhasnoname

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I think this was a carefully planned attack by an organized type of killer. LE states over and over how complex the scene was.

BG lured them out there, maybe he even suggested they cross the bridge for a meet up. I think as he got closer he used a gun to gain control of them. Got them ’down the hill’ where he raped and murdered them. The brutality, posing and possible filming here indicates to me this was preplanned and targeted. Poor, innocent girls, Im so sorry for what they experienced.

It seems like LE has more info then we’ve suspected and I believe there will be an arrest eventually.

KK and the a_shots account is somehow connected, it’s just too coincidental for it not to be.

moo

#Justice4Abby&Libby
 

m00c0w

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If the search warrant subsequently issued is present in the leaked materials, I missed it and apologize. The warrant itself was not on any link that I have so far followed and I for one have not seen it.

I just wish to avoid confusion. Thus far, all the discussion on this thread refers to the application for the warrant.
Yes, the warrant is the final two pages of all of the versions that I have seen. It's my hunch that this is a copy of the documents left with RL when the warrant was executed, that he turned over to some folks in the media. Someone then passed it on to MurderSheets at some point.

JMO
 

MistyWaters

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Since we are discussing “guys… down the hill”, please bear with me as I ask - how sure are we that “guys” was not the end of a question or sentence? And “down the hill” part of a new sentence. (The audio seems to pause or break between the two parts.)
ex: ”If you are looking for the guys, they are down the hill.”

I know this topic has been WELL covered here earlier, but with the new development of possible catfishing, multiple perps, I wasn’t sure it had been revisited.

I think if LE had definitive evidence that more than one perpetrator was involved they’d have indicated that long ago in their seeking of tips. They know what was recorded on the audio.
 

Peppery

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If the search warrant subsequently issued is present in the leaked materials, I missed it and apologize. The warrant itself was not on any link that I have so far followed and I for one have not seen it.

I just wish to avoid confusion. Thus far, all the discussion on this thread refers to the application for the warrant.
Wishtv.com has the actual warrant begin on on page 10 here
 

stattlich1

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Since we are discussing “guys… down the hill”, please bear with me as I ask - how sure are we that “guys” was not the end of a question or sentence? And “down the hill” part of a new sentence. (The audio seems to pause or break between the two parts.)
ex: ”If you are looking for the guys, they are down the hill.”

I know this topic has been WELL covered here earlier, but with the new development of possible catfishing, multiple perps, I wasn’t sure it had been revisited.
That the available wording is a directive seems to be implied, but for me, I just don't have proof of that. The garbled space between the word "guys", and the rest of the recording, tells me there may be something missing there.

That LE would surely inform the public there may be two or more murderers involved is speculation. I can fathom reasons why they would not.
 

Curiousobserver

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Two acquaintances positively identified him as being the person in the photos and then Paragraph 30 says it all- A violent person created an alibi before a crime was known, and whose cell phone pinged outside his house in the vicinity of the location of crime victim's both during the time the crime likely occurred AND then again after the crime occurred that night. It's almost a certainty RL is the killer. This is the same pattern of evidence as we have in the Morphew case against BM.
 

Ozoner

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What are the odds that RL knew TK do we think? I feel like it's far more likely, age wise, that RL would've been in connection with TK as opposed to KAK.

Or could it have been that BG was notorious enough to be someone RL knew he didn't want to mess with, if he heard BG committing the crime? Or if he hadn't notice but was at home then, was RL's property large enough that he might not have noticed the killer washing up on his property?
RL's property was 40 acres, which would be 1/4 mile by 1/4 mile (for a square parcel).

In my opinion, it's fairly clear the RL has no connection to the crime aside from the fact that it happened to culminate on the portion of his property that was adjacent to the public trail area.

All of this discussion about RL is much ado about nothing, in my opinion. (The warrant does reveal more information about the details of the crime, and those details are worth discussing.)
 
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shonyakay

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Sorry to just jump in, but I wanted to share this information from several Newspaper articles via Newspapers.com related to this crime and Ron Logan that I placed in Chronological order.

My personal opinion is that Ron Logan didn't have anything to do with these murders. I have always thought the BG video, albeit distorted, shows a man who is too young to be RL.



Monday / February 13, 2017

The owner of the property where the girls were found allegedly drove to the Carroll County Transfer Station on Feb. 13, according to a petition to revoke probation filed March 16 by an adult probation officer.

He allegedly committed, "a new criminal offense of Habitual Traffic Violater" when he drove to the Carroll County Transfer Station, where residents can drop off trash and recyclables.

During the sentencing hearing, deputy prosecutor Jerry Bean said the man's trip to the dump took place before the girls were dropped off at a hiking trail near his property.

Surveillance video from the transfer station "clearly shows" the property owner driving his truck to drop off a load of trash.

(The man (Ron Logan) told the paper that he'd gone to Lafayette on Feb. 13, the day the girls were killed.)

(He (Ron Logan) came home to find people asking him if they can search his property for the missing girls.)



Tuesday / February 14, 2017

Where the girls were found was at the back of his (Ron Logan's) property which slopes down as it nears the creek and it is not visible from the road or the house.



Thursday / February 16, 2017

"To have anyone murdered on your property... I don't know what my feelings are right now. It caught me by surprise."
- Ron Logan

"I haven't really had a chance to let it soak in. I know the families."
- Ron Logan



Monday / February 27, 2017

Probation officers also accused him (RL) of consuming an alcoholic beverage Feb. 27 at a Pizza King in Americus.



Saturday / March 11, 2017

He (RL) was arrested March 11 for allegedly violating the terms of his probation in a 2014 drunk driving case.



Thursday / March 16, 2017

The owner of the property where the girls were found allegedly drove to the Carroll County Transfer Station on Feb. 13, according to a petition to revoke probation filed March 16 by an adult probation officer.

According to the petition, the man was prohibited from consuming alcohol, having access to a vehicle or committing a new criminal offense as part of his two-year suspended sentence.

He allegedly committed, "a new criminal offense of Habitual Traffic Violater" when he drove to the Carroll County Transfer Station, where residents can drop off trash and recyclables.

Probation officers also accused him of consuming an alcoholic beverage Feb. 27 at a Pizza King in Americus.

Additionally, he allegedly had improper access to a vehicle parked across the street from his home in the 5800 block of West County Road 300 North in Delphi.



Friday / March 17, 2017

Police arrived just after 11:30 a.m. Friday. Police stormed a farmhouse Friday morning on Carroll County Road 300 North. He (RL) owns the property on which Libby and Abby were found.



Saturday / March 18, 2017

Slocum said police have served about a dozen search warrants in the course of this investigation and have interviewed hundreds of people.

"The search warrant is for the whole property, so we can go anywhere we want and look for whatever we need to look for." - Indiana Sgt. Kim Riley



Monday / April 3, 2017

During a court hearing Monday, the property owner (RL) pleaded guilty to the probation violation and a new felony charge of being a habitual traffic violator.

As part of a plea agreement, charges of false informing and obstruction of justice were dropped, according to Deputy Prosecutor Jerry Bean.

"You're a danger to this community." - Judge

"Maybe in the future, no one else will be murdered in my backyard."
- Ron Logan



Monday / April 10, 2017

The owner of the property where two Delphi teenagers were found dead was sentenced Monday.

The man was sentenced to serve the remainder of his probation, in addition to two years on a new felony charge of being a habitual traffic violator, totaling 3 1/2 years in the Indiana Department of Correction.

During the sentencing hearing, Deputy Prosecutor Jerry Bean said the man's trip to the dump took place before the girls were dropped off at a hiking trail near his property.

Surveillance video from the transfer station "clearly shows" the property owner driving his truck to drop off a load of trash.
 

steeltowngirl

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RL's property was 40 acres, which would be 1/4 mile by 1/4 mile (for a square parcel).

In my opinion, it's fairly clear the RL has no connection to the crime aside from the fact that it happened to culminate on the portion of his property that was adjacent to the public trail area.

All of this discussion about RL is much ado about nothing, in my opinion. (The warrant does reveal more information about the details of the crime, and those details are worth discussing.)

Tend to agree.
LE made a point to publicly state RL was not involved.

Indiana State Police
@IndStatePolice
@dbursten

says media reports connecting Ronald Logan to #DelphiMurders is FALSE. Probation Violation; no connection to murder investigation

8:39 PM · Mar 14, 2017·TweetDeck

 

Falling Down

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RL's property was 40 acres, which would be 1/4 mile by 1/4 mile (for a square parcel).

In my opinion, it's fairly clear the RL has no connection to the crime aside from the fact that it happened to culminate on the portion of his property that was adjacent to the public trail area.

All of this discussion about RL is much ado about nothing, in my opinion. (The warrant does reveal more information about the details of the crime, and those details are worth discussing.)

The report from the FBI cites a distance from the CS to his house exceeding 1400', which is more than a 1/4 mile. It's a little shorter than that but I'll go with what was reported, 1400 is a good round number.

He owned many acres above the gorge, between the gorge and C.R. 300 and adjacent properties. Many more in the gorge itself.

The vertical drop from the top of the gorge (RL's land up there and the cemetery), to the CS, has to be around 50 feet or more.

I fail to see how any activity RL was up to on 2.13.17, on his own property, had anything to do with something happening a 1/4 mile away from his house. Nor do I believe he bears any responsibility for anything that evening and early the next day.

I've been to the back of the cemetery (Summer 2017), right next to his land. The creek and the bridge cannot be seen from up there, in fact the only indication there might be a drop off to me was the ravine which runs from the cemetery down into the gorge, which roughly divides RL's land from the M family land. To know anything happened that afternoon (2.13.17) at the CS, line-of-sight, would require someone to be at the actual CS, as in practically right on top of it, which is proven by the search the next day. A searcher had to use the camera on their phone to help zoom in to see the general area where the victims were found.
 

sunshineray

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I think this was a carefully planned attack by an organized type of killer. LE states over and over how complex the scene was.

BG lured them out there, maybe he even suggested they cross the bridge for a meet up. I think as he got closer he used a gun to gain control of them. Got them ’down the hill’ where he raped and murdered them. The brutality, posing and possible filming here indicates to me this was preplanned and targeted. Poor, innocent girls, Im so sorry for what they experienced.

It seems like LE has more info then we’ve suspected and I believe there will be an arrest eventually.

KK and the a_shots account is somehow connected, it’s just too coincidental for it not to be.

moo

#Justice4Abby&Libby
KAK wants LE to believe it wasn't him, as anthony_shots, that told Libby's friend, We were supposed to met up that day and she never showed up. It wasn't him texting with Libby the day she and Abby were murdered. IMO he's a bald-faced liar about all that.

If you read that 194-page redacted interrogation of KAK, every time, there's a progression, almost choreography and then a point where it's so obvious, to me, that he's basically saying to the interrogator, without really saying it...Prove it. It gives me chills every time.

What are the odds of KAK (or he AND his father) not having a hand in the girl's murders?

Next to none, IMO.

AJMO
 

m00c0w

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The report from the FBI cites a distance from the CS to his house exceeding 1400', which is more than a 1/4 mile. It's a little shorter than that but I'll go with what was reported, 1400 is a good round number.

He owned many acres above the gorge, between the gorge and C.R. 300 and adjacent properties. Many more in the gorge itself.

The vertical drop from the top of the gorge (RL's land up there and the cemetery), to the CS, has to be around 50 feet or more.

I fail to see how any activity RL was up to on 2.13.17, on his own property, had anything to do with something happening a 1/4 mile away from his house. Nor do I believe he bears any responsibility for anything that evening and early the next day.

I've been to the back of the cemetery (Summer 2017), right next to his land. The creek and the bridge cannot be seen from up there, in fact the only indication there might be a drop off to me was the ravine which runs from the cemetery down into the gorge, which roughly divides RL's land from the M family land. To know anything happened that afternoon (2.13.17) at the CS, line-of-sight, would require someone to be at the actual CS, as in practically right on top of it, which is proven by the search the next day. A searcher had to use the camera on their phone to help zoom in to see the general area where the victims were found.
Since you have been to that specific location, do you think the murder site is "easily" (relative, I know) accessible from the cemetery?
 

IceIce9

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Two acquaintances positively identified him as being the person in the photos and then Paragraph 30 says it all- A violent person created an alibi before a crime was known, and whose cell phone pinged outside his house in the vicinity of the location of crime victim's both during the time the crime likely occurred AND then again after the crime occurred that night. It's almost a certainty RL is the killer. This is the same pattern of evidence as we have in the Morphew case against BM.
The age range for BG was revised to 18-40. That is much younger than RL’s age 77. MOO I don’t think he was BG.
 

Falling Down

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Since you have been to that specific location, do you think the murder site is "easily" (relative, I know) accessible from the cemetery?

Absolutely not.

A person would have to access one of two trails on private property, the M family's property or RL's. The trail on Rl's property was, at one time, a driveway type deal adjacent to a gravel pit located just below the cemetery.

So from the cemetery to the CS? No, not a direct route, impossible due to vegetation/woods and what have you.

From the corner of RL's property where it meets the cemetery? Yes, a short walk from there to the CS, as seen in MSM reports and at least two interviews of RL I've seen. In one interview, the abandoned gravel pit can be plainly seen, behind RL/looking towards the NW approach to the bridge, a 'berm' of sorts. The NW end of the bridge to that area is roughly just under 3/8 of a mile to walk it.

At 2:21 RL is walking uphill, by the abandoned gravel pit.


At 1:49, vehicles at the back of RL's property, cemetery to the right (viewpoint from C.R. 300):


There is an access point of sorts, it can be seen in early reports about the murders, where LE parked their vehicles, at the back of his property by the corner where it meets the cemetery. Where the driveway to the gravel pit would have been used decades ago. In fact a sturdy enough 4WD vehicle would be able to get down into the gorge from there, albeit if the gate on RL's property were opened.

Hope this helps.
 

bradfordsleuth

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Since we are discussing “guys… down the hill”, please bear with me as I ask - how sure are we that “guys” was not the end of a question or sentence? And “down the hill” part of a new sentence. (The audio seems to pause or break between the two parts.)
ex: ”If you are looking for the guys, they are down the hill.”

I know this topic has been WELL covered here earlier, but with the new development of possible catfishing, multiple perps, I wasn’t sure it had been revisited.
LE has never confirmed exactly the sequence of those words from what I recall.

The reason for the break/pause in the audio is one of those things we may only have confirmed WHEN this case gets solved.

A directive by him to the girls to find person(s) they were looking for 'down the hill' certainly aligns with a catfishing theory.

But....not if we rely on what LE has stated about the words being spoken at the end of the bridge and the 'criminal activity' occurring at the same time the video was recorded. (Both pieces of info have been released by LE at separate times and I am having a helluva time linking stuff from my phone so I will add a JMO)

I am wondering why the recently leaked document to search RL's property doesn't mention the word 'guys' at all, if, in fact, it was within the same sentence.


I am having trouble linking it here but the excerpt from the document linked by @margarita25 in the Media Thread post #1024 reads as follows (in Section 2):

"Near the end of the video, the suspect speaks to the victims saying, "Down the hill"."

My best guess is that they may have only included written excerpts only of portions of audio that had already been publicly released on this document because RL was entitled to see a copy of it?

The reason for LE holding back that one word for over 2 years still bewilders me.

JMO
 

m00c0w

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Absolutely not.

A person would have to access one of two trails on private property, the M family's property or RL's. The trail on Rl's property was, at one time, a driveway type deal adjacent to a gravel pit located just below the cemetery.

So from the cemetery to the CS? No, not a direct route, impossible due to vegetation/woods and what have you.

From the corner of RL's property where it meets the cemetery? Yes, a short walk from there to the CS, as seen in MSM reports and at least two interviews of RL I've seen. In one interview, the abandoned gravel pit can be plainly seen, behind RL/looking towards the NW approach to the bridge, a 'berm' of sorts. The NW end of the bridge to that area is roughly just under 3/8 of a mile to walk it.

At 2:21 RL is walking uphill, by the abandoned gravel pit.


At 1:49, vehicles at the back of RL's property, cemetery to the right (viewpoint from C.R. 300):


There is an access point of sorts, it can be seen in early reports about the murders, where LE parked their vehicles, at the back of his property by the corner where it meets the cemetery. Where the driveway to the gravel pit would have been used decades ago. In fact a sturdy enough 4WD vehicle would be able to get down into the gorge from there, albeit if the gate on RL's property were opened.

Hope this helps.
Interesting. Thank you very much!

My thoughts lately have centered around someone parking at the cemetery and using that as an easy egress. I guess they'd have to know the land relatively well in order to accomplish that...
 

Falling Down

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Interesting. Thank you very much!

My thoughts lately have centered around someone parking at the cemetery and using that as an easy egress. I guess they'd have to know the land relatively well in order to accomplish that...

The cemetery, for some time after the murders, was the place I was certain BG parked.

I no longer believe so.
 
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