Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

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cbeagle

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Im referring to the leaked information surrounding the individual with the fake online profile who just so happens to be involved in trading (CSM) that was in contact with the girls up until the day they were killed, than after told another person he was indeed there at the bridge, but the girls never showed up .

Don't think there's anything being released that indicates the a_s account said the arranged meeting was at the bridge, or that he expected multiple girls to be at the meeting.
 

AC4RD

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Don't think there's anything being released that indicates the a_s account said the arranged meeting was at the bridge, or that he expected multiple girls to be at the meeting.
I think a planned meeting was in one of the KAK interview transcripts; it's been referred to by WTHR:

"After her death, "anthony_shots" communicated online to others that he was supposed to meet Libby, “but she never showed up."

 

iamnotagolem

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I think a planned meeting was in one of the KAK interview transcripts; it's been referred to by WTHR:

"After her death, "anthony_shots" communicated online to others that he was supposed to meet Libby, “but she never showed up."

I think the point the Op was making was that there was no mention of the bridge.
 

PnzrIVausf.G

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Well kak was referenced in a news article(which i'll link)where he states that the police told him that the AS account was the last individual to communicate with one of the victims.I'd like to explore that word a little bit,communicate,which essentially is to exchange information.And by doing so,the word "exchange" also becomes important.A relative dropped them off and you'd think that that was the last person to communicate with her...

 

PnzrIVausf.G

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Maybe bg was older,I wonder if he used his hat to hide a receding hair line or balding perhaps,you know to possibly appear "younger" to the girls.I wouldn't be surprised if bg used rogaine or buzzed what was left?IDK what do you guys think,either way,it's just my opinion.
 

PnzrIVausf.G

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Maybe bg was older,I wonder if he used his hat to hide a receding hair line or balding perhaps,you know to possibly appear "younger" to the girls.I wouldn't be surprised if bg used rogaine or buzzed what was left?IDK what do you guys think?Either way,it's just my opinion.
 

iamnotagolem

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Well kak was referenced in a news article(which i'll link)where he states that the police told him that the AS account was the last individual to communicate with one of the victims.I'd like to explore that word a little bit,communicate,which essentially is to exchange information.And by doing so,the word "exchange" also becomes important.A relative dropped them off and you'd think that that was the last person to communicate with her...

Which would mean Libby was communicating with AS from the trail, since Kelsi had dropped them off 30-45 minutes earlier (hopefully someone know more accurately) and if Kelsi was the last to communicate with Libby, then why would they tell KAK that AS was the last one to communicate with Libby??
 

ChuckInHouston

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I was thinking about this. If I heard through the grapevine or saw on the news that two young people went missing on public land adjacent to my property, the first thing I would do is search my outbuildings and my property. RL’s phone is said to have been outside around 7 ish the evening of their disappearance. He asked someone to lie about picking him up around 2 on the day of the murders, which coincidentally is the last time a snap chat photo shows the girls alive. And asked that person to lie about dropping him back off at 5:30 the evening of the murders. RL may not be guilty of murder but he’s definitely guilty of impeding the progress of the investigation with his early lies. In addition, the timing of the lies he told early on encompass the time frame of the disappearance and apparently the murders. Coincidences do happen. If this is all a coincidence, which it may be, it’s definitely a coincidence of epic proportion.
The generally accepted understanding of RL creating an alibi is that he was violating his parole by driving, which is why he was arrested. IMO it never made sense that he would have killed them then left them on his property, especially since there were plenty of woods around he could have moved them to without being spotted. I think he is just the unfortunate sole to have lived in close relation to the scene.
 

ChuckInHouston

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I have stared at the video, paused, slowmo, etc since the day it came out entirely too much.
I never got the hat thing as to me it only looks like hair with a part close to the middle. It is too pixilated to make much more of than that. even blown up, I cant make out a hat, and at no point does it look like the hoodie is up to me. JMO.
What stuck out to me from the beginning was his shoes. dark brown or black. Work shoes or boots. Considering the poor condition of the bridge, and the fact that I grew up near some train tracks that span the San Jacinto and spent countless hours of my youth walking them, or jumping off of them, his walk is due to stepping over gaps between ties, but you can still make out general pattern of his walk. Jeans do not strike me as a particularly young man, but my guess after studying the video would be that he is around 30s to mid 40s. I don't see a gun, not that he may not have had one, but I just don't see it. I also don't quiet agree for sure that he was wearing a fanny pack. It just looks like an under shirt hanging out from under his jacket. What I don't see in it is KK or TK. Also LE's estimation of his height and weight do not match either.
It is also my own personal opinion that there was more than one perpetrator. At least one we see and one we do not. To me the voice recording sounds like two different people. I would not begin to try to match the voice as it could be associated to so many people anyone knows in that area. What has always stuck out to me the most is the use of the term "guys". Guys is not something you would normally walk up to strangers and say. It's just not. At least not in my part of the country. It is something someone who has a sense of know another uses though. Not that they knew him, even if they knew the catfish that may have brought them there, but as if he was familiar with them. if that makes sense.
 

Snow_In _June

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As you all know I am a person of few posts and when I do post I try very hard not to offend anyone with alternative ideas. I have had a thoughts today. What is it we don't know and it still comes down to the basics.

We do Not know​

Who, Why, What, Where or When.

We can all speculate all we want and disappear down various rabbit holes the simple fact is we do not know.
Who BG Is
We don't know who the voice belongs to
We don't know why Libby pressed the record button
We don't know how Bad Guy controlled two teenagers down a steep hill if he had a weapon in on hand. He to had to get down the hill as well, without tripping falling or sliding. We have all seen Youtubers and locals try.
Equally he had to maintain the same control if the girls crossed the creek and climbed the bank
We have no idea of what his/her/their motive was to Murder Libby and Abby.

We all have a theory one of us somewhere must be right.

May today be the Day for Justice for Libby & Abby

S_I_J
 

HistoryNut

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I have stared at the video, paused, slowmo, etc since the day it came out entirely too much.
I never got the hat thing as to me it only looks like hair with a part close to the middle. It is too pixilated to make much more of than that. even blown up, I cant make out a hat, and at no point does it look like the hoodie is up to me. JMO.
What stuck out to me from the beginning was his shoes. dark brown or black. Work shoes or boots. Considering the poor condition of the bridge, and the fact that I grew up near some train tracks that span the San Jacinto and spent countless hours of my youth walking them, or jumping off of them, his walk is due to stepping over gaps between ties, but you can still make out general pattern of his walk. Jeans do not strike me as a particularly young man, but my guess after studying the video would be that he is around 30s to mid 40s. I don't see a gun, not that he may not have had one, but I just don't see it. I also don't quiet agree for sure that he was wearing a fanny pack. It just looks like an under shirt hanging out from under his jacket. What I don't see in it is KK or TK. Also LE's estimation of his height and weight do not match either.
It is also my own personal opinion that there was more than one perpetrator. At least one we see and one we do not. To me the voice recording sounds like two different people. I would not begin to try to match the voice as it could be associated to so many people anyone knows in that area. What has always stuck out to me the most is the use of the term "guys". Guys is not something you would normally walk up to strangers and say. It's just not. At least not in my part of the country. It is something someone who has a sense of know another uses though. Not that they knew him, even if they knew the catfish that may have brought them there, but as if he was familiar with them. if that makes sense.
Based on my experience, the term "guys" is actually very common in the Midwest -- all the way from Ohio to Colorado. I have lived all over the Midwest and say "guys" all the time, even to complete strangers. It's akin to "Y'all" in the South.

Midwesterners also do have accents, though not as pronounced as others, and it ranges from region to region. For example, the people I've know from Indiana have a more folksy accent than farther west, and IMO, BG has a distinct Indiana accent.
 

Arkay

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What has always stuck out to me the most is the use of the term "guys". Guys is not something you would normally walk up to strangers and say. It's just not. At least not in my part of the country. It is something someone who has a sense of know another uses though. Not that they knew him, even if they knew the catfish that may have brought them there, but as if he was familiar with them. if that makes sense.
That's an interesting perspective to me and IMO you're right that it may be due to where you live.

Here in NYC, "guys" is a common form of address to a group of strangers. "Hey guys, what's going on here?" "Hey guys, can you move your car that's double-parked?" "Guys, can you tell me where the subway stop is around here?"

This is without regard to gender, just that it is to two or more people, and it doesn't denote familiarity with the person.

Even on the TV show Survivor, the host (Jeff Probst) has for 20 years said "Come on in, guys" as a standard part of the show, until last year a contestant asked him to stop, as that person felt it was too gender-specific. That suggests to me it's not only a NYC common form of address.

So IMO and from my background it doesn't imply that he was familiar with them. I acknowledge though that we all have different mannerisms that are partially based on where we grew up.

ETA @HistoryNut just saw your post after I posted. I completely agree, it would be similar to "y'all" in the South.
 
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Yuletide

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Maybe bg was older,I wonder if he used his hat to hide a receding hair line or balding perhaps,you know to possibly appear "younger" to the girls.I wouldn't be surprised if bg used rogaine or buzzed what was left?IDK what do you guys think,either way,it's just my opinion.
This has also been my opinion from the beginning. There was plenty of time between the commission of the crime to the finding of the bodies to wash out a temporary hair dye.
 

M. Kay

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temporary hair dye.
Recent hair dye posts are a strain to consider, though I mention in a most friendly way. We're all worn down by these unsolved murders.
When BG video was first 'enlarged' his reddish hair tones are very apparent; several suspects have beards identical. Uppermost is one career criminal's mug shots all matching the video beard! Perhaps killer made many plans; yet let's not rule out spontaneity of being captured by Libby's video.
 

Falling Down

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Which would mean Libby was communicating with AS from the trail, since Kelsi had dropped them off 30-45 minutes earlier (hopefully someone know more accurately) and if Kelsi was the last to communicate with Libby, then why would they tell KAK that AS was the last one to communicate with Libby??

Makes me wonder why there's such a sense of urgency on the part of LE to find out who is connected to the AS account.

Maybe a specific electronic device connected to the account hasn't been accounted for. As in LE might have identifying info about a device, but like I said they don't know where it is right now. I've wondered as well about the AS account, as in when, specifically, it was being used to contact LG, before the murders.

Maybe that's the key right now, they know the AS account and LG were connected somehow shortly before the murders. They just don't know for certain who it was on the AS end, and which device they were using.

Which brings to mind KAK's whereabouts that afternoon, he has an alibi, far as we know. However, who was he in contact with that afternoon, possibly through the AS account?

Just random thoughts I've had after mulling over what this AS account stuff could be about, and reading the great posts here.

JMO
 

jollypup

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I was thinking about this. If I heard through the grapevine or saw on the news that two young people went missing on public land adjacent to my property, the first thing I would do is search my outbuildings and my property. RL’s phone is said to have been outside around 7 ish the evening of their disappearance. He asked someone to lie about picking him up around 2 on the day of the murders, which coincidentally is the last time a snap chat photo shows the girls alive. And asked that person to lie about dropping him back off at 5:30 the evening of the murders. RL may not be guilty of murder but he’s definitely guilty of impeding the progress of the investigation with his early lies. In addition, the timing of the lies he told early on encompass the time frame of the disappearance and apparently the murders. Coincidences do happen. If this is all a coincidence, which it may be, it’s definitely a coincidence of epic proportion.
RL probably has some culpability but I think it is important to remember that he was also on probation and couldn’t drive. That is a reason to lie. Just playing devils advocate though, as I agree with what you are saying. I thought I’ve seen that the last Snapchat contact was around 4:15 though? Or was that when they realized the girls were missing? Again I don’t think this is a red herring, but it could be.
 

jollypup

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That's an interesting perspective to me and IMO you're right that it may be due to where you live.

Here in NYC, "guys" is a common form of address to a group of strangers. "Hey guys, what's going on here?" "Hey guys, can you move your car that's double-parked?" "Guys, can you tell me where the subway stop is around here?"

This is without regard to gender, just that it is to two or more people, and it doesn't denote familiarity with the person.

Even on the TV show Survivor, the host (Jeff Probst) has for 20 years said "Come on in, guys" as a standard part of the show, until last year a contestant asked him to stop, as that person felt it was too gender-specific. That suggests to me it's not only a NYC common form of address.

So IMO and from my background it doesn't imply that he was familiar with them. I acknowledge though that we all have different mannerisms that are partially based on where we grew up.

ETA @HistoryNut just saw your post after I posted. I completely agree, it would be similar to "y'all" in the South.
I think we are all focusing too much on the guys line. People say guys…. Everywhere. Imo I thinks it’s more likely that either the girls or the crimes (or both) are the majority of the rest of the call. I still am befuddled as why they didn’t realize the guys part of the clip on their first release.
 

TL4S

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Makes me wonder why there's such a sense of urgency on the part of LE to find out who is connected to the AS account.

Maybe a specific electronic device connected to the account hasn't been accounted for. As in LE might have identifying info about a device, but like I said they don't know where it is right now. I've wondered as well about the AS account, as in when, specifically, it was being used to contact LG, before the murders.

Maybe that's the key right now, they know the AS account and LG were connected somehow shortly before the murders. They just don't know for certain who it was on the AS end, and which device they were using.

Which brings to mind KAK's whereabouts that afternoon, he has an alibi, far as we know. However, who was he in contact with that afternoon, possibly through the AS account?

Just random thoughts I've had after mulling over what this AS account stuff could be about, and reading the great posts here.

JMO
It wasn't explicitly said during the KAK interview that this was connected to L, but the officers doing the interview did mention that there were two devices rapidly logging in and out of the a_shots account from the Peru house IP address around 8am on the morning the girls were murdered. Maybe the point was to show more than one user was using the account, but it was expressed it was the morning of the 13th. KAK claimed it was his iPhone and Samsung, the latter he stated previously that he didn't have until Vegas, where he found it in a rental car. Clearly there was a lie there somewhere, and while LE probably knows, we do not know which devices were logging in and out that day.

LE also said a_shots talked to L the day of the murders, and was the last person to communicate with her. IDK...is that literal? As in after K drove them to the trail? Or does it mean online? Someone other than family? I'm not sure how to interpret that statement.

All in all, a_shots apparently had been communicating with L previous to the murders, communicated with her after the murders, said they were supposed to meet but she didn't show up, and some of this was done from Vegas, on KAK's device. The same device he later wiped clean before turning over to LE.

If there was somebody else (besides KAK or possibly TK) communicating with L as a_shots, from another device, I would be curious why KAK's device continued to communicated with her from Vegas.

And what about ski mask peeper one week after the murders? A_shots had been communicating with her, as well, and KAK had looked up her family the day before, from his device.

For me, it's really difficult to picture an unknown user communicating as a_shots, on a different device, when so many communications can be traced back to KAK's devices, both before and after the murders. I do, however, consider that the girls' whereabouts could have been passed along to an unknown third party. But then why the recent a_shots ask, requesting specifics about the creator wanting addresses and meetups? It feels to me like either LE is focusing on KAK or TK (the two with full access to a_shots) as the killer, or LE thinks KAK or TK was selling private information on the girls they were communicating with, ie. addresses and meeting places, etc., and one of those buyers was the killer. Just some of my random thoughts.
 
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AC4RD

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Well kak was referenced in a news article(which i'll link)where he states that the police told him that the AS account was the last individual to communicate with one of the victims. ... A relative dropped them off and you'd think that that was the last person to communicate with her...
Just my own opinion, but I think this is a fairly common bit of misplaced logic. I see it often in news stories: "... and the store clerk was the last person to see Rudiger alive." Well, the murderer was actually the last person to see him alive, we know that. But saying "The clerk was the last known person" or "The clerk was the last person other than the murderer," or even "The clerk was presumably the last person other than the murderer to see Rudiger alive" is more cumbersome.

I think it's just a verbal shortcut and we are in general meant to understand that XYZ was -probably- the last person -other than the murderer- to see poor Rudiger alive. I think that's probably what is going on with the statement about KAK/AS.

To chime in on another point: In my own experience, "Guys" as direct address is actually very common in the American South, addressing people of equal or lesser status. A waiter wouldn't begin a statement to a group of formal diners with "Guys," but would when calling his fellow waiters to attention in the kitchen. A doctor wouldn't address a group of a patient's family members as "guys" but she might address the clinical team in the workroom as "guys."

Pardon the pedantry (I used to be a publications editor): Our southern "y'all" is more often used in the subject of a sentence (nominative, for those of us old enough to have had grammar in school) where "guys" even in the south would be more often used in direct address (the vocative case.) As in: "Guys, y'all need to get that silverware rolled before the doors open at five." FWIW, my own experience only.
 
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