Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

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Ravenmoon

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I wonder what the rules are about showing the suspect record evidence, such as when the interviewers showed KAK the numbers from the two devices they said were logging in and out of a_shots at 8am on the 13th. Or reading supposed online communications with girls from KAK's devices, search histories, dropbox exchanges, etc. Or reading his a_shots exchanges from Vegas. Can they use fake records of digital activities during an interview/interrogation? Legitimate question.

Not sure about the rules...BUT, KAK basically agreed with them that he had been in contact with LG. He actually verified that he messaged her after her death and that he had looked up things such as , How long does DNA last?" " he searched extensively while in Vegas about the murders...so whether or not LE used less than honest methodology, KAK has pretty much tied up his involvement with LG in a neat little package.


MOO
 

Kell1

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Theres always a pathway to murder , ALWAYS, no one wakes up one morning, just abandons their god fearing ways and commits a double murder,

Theres always a path to (and from) it

Look for the trail leading to it, apply the percentages, and look at what evidence there is

This killer is not unique at all, theres nothing special about him hes not some super villain , hes a guy who killed 2 girls (there can be a few motives) but it was most likely sexual, he then hid their bodies, in a already secluded area .

That is not seeking attention, theres been no contact with LE , media or the victims, families, and theres have been no further known cases connected to this case.

Hiding a body is not staging, its not a unique behavior, as a matter of fact its most common in child murders , this is a crime where the offender wanted to get away ASAP, and hopefully never be caught .

You have an individual who was in contact with one of the victims up until hours, before they are killed , just so happens to agree to meet them when and where they are found murdered,

Then claims to others who knew of this meeting , that he was "there but she (German) never showed"

This individual also cat fished, several young girls in order to trade sexual materials with other pedophiles on line .

Now I cant say whether or not KAK is indeed the one responsible for these girls deaths , but i can say with supreme confidence, the individual responsible for killing those 2 girls is very much like KAK.

Coincidences usually don't happen repeatedly especially surrounding a single individual when it does we call it something else .."......Suspicious"
 

Arkay

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Theres always a pathway to murder , ALWAYS, no one wakes up one morning, just abandons their god fearing ways and commits a double murder,

Theres always a path to (and from) it

Look for the trail leading to it, apply the percentages, and look at what evidence there is

This killer is not unique at all, theres nothing special about him hes not some super villain , hes a guy who killed 2 girls (there can be a few motives) but it was most likely sexual, he then hid their bodies, in a already secluded area .

That is not seeking attention, theres been no contact with LE , media or the victims, families, and theres have been no further known cases connected to this case.

Hiding a body is not staging, its not a unique behavior, as a matter of fact its most common in child murders , this is a crime where the offender wanted to get away ASAP, and hopefully never be caught .

You have an individual who was in contact with one of the victims up until hours, before they are killed , just so happens to agree to meet them when and where they are found murdered,

Then claims to others who knew of this meeting , that he was "there but she (German) never showed"

This individual also cat fished, several young girls in order to trade sexual materials with other pedophiles on line .

Now I cant say whether or not KAK is indeed the one responsible for these girls deaths , but i can say with supreme confidence, the individual responsible for killing those 2 girls is very much like KAK.

Coincidences usually don't happen repeatedly especially surrounding a single individual when it does we call it something else .."......Suspicious"
This has always seemed to me to be the most plausible of all the theories. It just simply connects the dots in a more fluid manner than anything else that has been suggested over five years.

What gives me pause is that in the video, BG is not the size of KAK. At least not to my eyes. That does give some credence that maybe BG is TK, or someone else who herded the girls over to where perhaps KAK was lying in wait.

Just speculation but everything else with KAK would otherwise be much too much of a sinister coincidence.

I definitely agree about the murderer absolutely trying to remain out of the spotlight. I was here in NYC when Son of Sam was sending cryptic, attention-seeking letters to police and to newspaper reporters. I'm sure we all also remember the Zodiac Killer's letters.

We don't know if BG is a serial killer like the others, but he clearly has not been seeking publicity with taunting and threatening letters like Son of Sam and the Zodiac Killer.

Whatever lusts drove him to annihilate Libby and Abby, it wasn't a perverse sense of notoriety.

IMO
 

JnRyan

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How many cases do you have a video and audio of the suspect but still can’t arrest him
I don't know about audio AND video, but there are many cases where LE has video. Jennifer Kesse, Missy Bevers, Elizabeth Barraza (they have audio but you can't make it out) and Prisma Peralta Reyes are just a few I can think of. Hannah Graham was seen on video in 3 or 4 places prior to her abduction and murder and the last video led LE to her killer.
 

steeltowngirl

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I don't know about audio AND video, but there are many cases where LE has video. Jennifer Kesse, Missy Bevers, Elizabeth Barraza (they have audio but you can't make it out) and Prisma Peralta Reyes are just a few I can think of. Hannah Graham was seen on video in 3 or 4 places prior to her abduction and murder and the last video led LE to her killer.
The police released audio in Amber Tuccaro’s case, still unsolved. Amber captured 17 minutes of audio of her kidnapper.

 

JnRyan

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BNA

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That is not seeking attention, theres been no contact with LE , media or the victims, families, and theres have been no further known cases connected to this case.
We cannot know if this part of what you say is true.

I suspect that there HAS been contact with LE, and fairly early on. And, I believe LE has that feeling, too.
 

PnzrIVausf.G

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So kak was searching "how long dna lasts"?I don't believe le found his dna at the crime scene that i'm aware of at least.It makes me wonder why.I also don't think 2012 or 2017 are connected,they may have factors that are similar but that's just my opinion.
 

cuecard

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How many cases do you have a video and audio of the suspect but still can’t arrest him
It's frustrating, isn't it? I think if you dressed anyone of similar stature/build in those same type of clothes and took a picture from that far away then basically anyone could resemble BG. There's just very little to work with barring the obvious colour of his clothes and even then nothing particularly stands out. And the audio just seems like a generic accent from that area.

I'd be very surprised if the major breakthrough that finally cracks this case comes from the video/audio unless LE gets extremely lucky but I just don't see that being the likely scenario at this current moment.
 

Kell1

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We cannot know if this part of what you say is true.

I suspect that there HAS been contact with LE, and fairly early on. And, I believe LE has that feeling, too.
We can, if we base it off what LE has released, IE evidence, and in no way have the indicated the suspect has been in contact with them or anyone else .

To surmise, (based on what info I have no idea) that they have, with zero evidence to support is pure conjecture

If he contacted LE, they wouldnt have a feeling, they'd know
 

Kell1

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This has always seemed to me to be the most plausible of all the theories. It just simply connects the dots in a more fluid manner than anything else that has been suggested over five years.

What gives me pause is that in the video, BG is not the size of KAK. At least not to my eyes. That does give some credence that maybe BG is TK, or someone else who herded the girls over to where perhaps KAK was lying in wait.

Just speculation but everything else with KAK would otherwise be much too much of a sinister coincidence.

I definitely agree about the murderer absolutely trying to remain out of the spotlight. I was here in NYC when Son of Sam was sending cryptic, attention-seeking letters to police and to newspaper reporters. I'm sure we all also remember the Zodiac Killer's letters.

We don't know if BG is a serial killer like the others, but he clearly has not been seeking publicity with taunting and threatening letters like Son of Sam and the Zodiac Killer.

Whatever lusts drove him to annihilate Libby and Abby, it wasn't a perverse sense of notoriety.

IMO
I agree, and attention seeking isnt always as obvious as David Berkowitz, but if it anything , its obvious.

Thres a HUGE disparity between attention seeking, staging and simply displaying a victim .

Staging is basically an attempt (usually poorly) t make a crime look like something else, for ex, you may have what looks like a robbery gone wrong but the victim was stabbed 50 times, drawers are dumped, out, things of value arent missing, and obvious items, such as cash in the victims purse, arent taken.

Posing a victim is different, thats usually unique to the offender, and most often has 3 reasons , 1) Its a ritualistic part of the assault and fills a psychological need for the offender 2) To shock whomever, finds the body, 3) as an act of further degradation to the victim

The Hillside stranglers, posed, bodies for 2 reasons, 1) to shock whomever found the bodies, and 2) to further degrade the deceased.

But NONE of them were seeking attention, those post mortem posing were keys to their psyche, who both (especially Bianchi) were psychopaths, but neither wanted any notoriety for their acts , the posing of victims, was simply an extension of their hatred for women.

Attention seeking is pretty rare its also a really good opportunity to get a look at the true motivations of a particular criminal

Hiding bodies, in a remote area (which is common in most child murders) to most experienced investigators,doesn't scream "attention seeking"
 

steeltowngirl

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We can, if we base it off what LE has released, IE evidence, and in no way have the indicated the suspect has been in contact with them or anyone else .

To surmise, (based on what info I have no idea) that they have, with zero evidence to support is pure conjecture

If he contacted LE, they wouldnt have a feeling, they'd know
How could LE be sure they haven’t been contacted? With over 50,000 tips, certainly some were anonymous, others may have been purposely misleading.

Carter‘s statement “you want to know what we know” is cryptic and puzzling. Was it just FBI-driven rhetoric, or something more?

“We believe you are hiding in plain sight,” Carter said. “For more than two years…. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know – that one day, you will.”

 

Kell1

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How could LE be sure they haven’t been contacted? With over 50,000 tips, certainly some were anonymous, others may have been purposely misleading.

Carter‘s statement “you want to know what we know” is cryptic and puzzling. Was it just FBI-driven rhetoric, or something more?

“We believe you are hiding in plain sight,” Carter said. “For more than two years…. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know – that one day, you will.”

Pertaining to attention seeking, that was what i was referring to .

In some cases offenders inject themselves into the investigation in order, to gain information, he may have attempted to do that , but theres zero indication of anyone contacting police to taunt, or claim responsibility for thes 2 murders.

Carters statement is most likely pertaining to this fact.

And i 100% believe this individual was interviewed, they usually are withing the first 2 weeks , but theres something that they cant get past to link them to the crime .
 

TL4S

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Not sure about the rules...BUT, KAK basically agreed with them that he had been in contact with LG. He actually verified that he messaged her after her death and that he had looked up things such as , How long does DNA last?" " he searched extensively while in Vegas about the murders...so whether or not LE used less than honest methodology, KAK has pretty much tied up his involvement with LG in a neat little package.


MOO
This was my thought exactly. I suppose his lawyer will say he was coerced into saying those things... sigh.
 

AC4RD

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How many cases do you have a video and audio of the suspect but still can’t arrest him
"Constantly." In the "nextdoor" neighborhood group for my part of the city, several times a month, people have doorbell and/or security camera footage of their cars being burgled, or power tools being stolen from their garages, or boats from their yards. There are almost never any arrests.

In my fairly large city, at least a few times a week there is security footage of people robbing small businesses, or stealing cars, or shooting at some other goblins at some blighted street corner. Almost the only time there are arrests is when the offenders are accidentally caught in the act, or are stopped by traffic police minutes after the act.

Our world has become thick with grainy security footage of people committing felonies. It rarely does any good at all, as far as I can tell.

With the girls' murderer, the video has been cleaned and enhanced by the very best video technicians available (FBI lab *and* Disney!) and people still can't agree on whether he's wearing a scarf, or a hat, or what kind of shoes he's wearing, or even what type of puppy or baby goat he has under his jacket. When this finally comes to trial, the video may do the defense more good than the prosecution, IMO.

FWIW. MOO. Your mileage may vary. Offer void where prohibited.
 

Justice101

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Just a random thought:

The "we have likely interviewed you or someone close to you" and using 2 degrees of separation assuming you also exclude all females, that ends up being about 16% of the population. Also, 2 degrees of separation is really easy to get a much higher percentage in such a small community.

Also, if you exclude children and the elderly.. the number goes up to about 30%. Small community probably takes it to 50% chance they interviewed the killer or someone close.

So when he says that, I think he is right. I just don't think they know WHICH PERSON it is.
 

wary

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Just a random thought:

The "we have likely interviewed you or someone close to you" and using 2 degrees of separation assuming you also exclude all females, that ends up being about 16% of the population. Also, 2 degrees of separation is really easy to get a much higher percentage in such a small community.

Also, if you exclude children and the elderly.. the number goes up to about 30%. Small community probably takes it to 50% chance they interviewed the killer or someone close.

So when he says that, I think he is right. I just don't think they know WHICH PERSON it is.

Right. I believe that the word ‘likely,’ as in, ‘we have likely interviewed you or someone close to you’ shows, possibly more clearly than they should have shown, that they don’t have much of an idea of who it is.

MOO, of course
 

MistyWaters

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Right. I believe that the word ‘likely,’ as in, ‘we have likely interviewed you or someone close to you’ shows, possibly more clearly than they should have shown, that they don’t have much of an idea of who it is.

MOO, of course

I agree, much of what was said was based on known probabilities…..very similar to RL’s search warrant.
 
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