Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

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TheVisual

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bbm
Because he is sick in his head? Mentally ill? Has to pretend to be normal all his life, but is not in the remotest?
It could be as simple as Abby was still alive for a short period of time after he high-tailed it out of there and she crawled over to Libby and laid next to her and died. Just an example and JMO.
 

Ravenmoon

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Just to clarify you mean before February 13, 2017, correct?
Because I know that he was there before The girls were even dropped off (sometime between 11 and 12-ish, iirc?).
No, I was speaking to Feb 13 2017 specifically.
I wasn't sure if you were aware that he was at the landfill prior to the girls being on the trail.

JMO
 

HistoryNut

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I just finished reading KK's interview with LE for the second time and I'm even more convinced that KK played a role in the murders. He may not have been BG but I think he definitely knows who the murderer is.
 

FromGermany1

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It could be as simple as Abby was still alive for a short period of time after he high-tailed it out of there and she crawled over to Libby and laid next to her and died. Just an example and JMO.
LE might know, that Abby didn't crawl, but had to have been dragged. Perhaps clean hands, clean jeans at knee level or some other sign?
 

Gerrymd8

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This is a off topic of the current flow of conversation, but if anyone knows why there is no more video of bridge guy shown from the recording, I would love to hear it. I understand the concerns of showing the girls faces (can't you blur out faces?) and their voices (can't they be muted?), but is there really no more than a 2 second clip of this criminal available for the public to review?
 

UnapologeticallyAspie

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IMO, the explanation for his fake alibi makes no sense. His driving offenses occurred in the morning and in the late afternoon. If he need an alibi about driving illegally, why pick a totally different time that just happened to coincide with the crime? IMO the explanation would only make sense or be reasonable if the alibi was sought for the times he actually was away from his home.

I really don't think, nor am I suggesting that RL committed this crime, but I seriously wonder if he somehow had knowledge that he needed to give an impression that he was away during that very crucial timeframe and therefore would not be expected to provide any information that might impart any knowledge he had of who did commit it.

JMO
Yesssss, I completely agree with everything that you said!

JMVHO
 

Arkay

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This is a off topic of the current flow of conversation, but if anyone knows why there is no more video of bridge guy shown from the recording, I would love to hear it. I understand the concerns of showing the girls faces (can't you blur out faces?) and their voices (can't they be muted?), but is there really no more than a 2 second clip of this criminal available for the public to review?

Speaking for myself alone---

I think LE released just the bit of Bridge Guy, alone, so that perhaps someone could identify him.

I personally do not want to see any video at all that includes what happened to Libby and Abby. Even with blurred faces and muted voices.

We already know what they look like. I do NOT AT ALL want to see them being dragged, or assaulted, or attacked, or fruitlessly trying to escape, or witness their screams, even muted. I don't want to see their faces go from perplexed to terrified.

I have three young grandchildren, two of them girls. If God forbid this was my family, I would not want the public to see any of it, either.

Jmo
 

Gerrymd8

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Speaking for myself alone---

I think LE released just the bit of Bridge Guy, alone, so that perhaps someone could identify him.

I personally do not want to see any video at all that includes what happened to Libby and Abby. Even with blurred faces and muted voices.

We already know what they look like. I do NOT AT ALL want to see them being dragged, or assaulted, or attacked, or fruitlessly trying to escape, or witness their screams, even muted. I don't want to see their faces go from perplexed to terrified.

I have three young grandchildren, two of them girls. If God forbid this was my family, I would not want the public to see any of it, either.

Jmo
I totally agree with you. I have absolutely zero desire to see them dragged, assaulted, attacked, or fruitlessly trying to escape. However, IF there were video of the criminal available beyond what was shown without the above images and knowing technology these days, I would hope that law enforcement would put it out there. You are correct. Perhaps someone could identify him. I believe that was indeed the goal. 43 seconds in length. 2 seconds shown. I am not sure many people would be able to identify anyone they didn't know extremely well. I am not second guessing. I am actually wondering why more video was not shown. (I too have 3 grandchildren who I love to the moon; I do understand your point of view). Thank you for your reply.
 

Yemelyan

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I totally agree with you. I have absolutely zero desire to see them dragged, assaulted, attacked, or fruitlessly trying to escape. However, IF there were video of the criminal available beyond what was shown without the above images and knowing technology these days, I would hope that law enforcement would put it out there. You are correct. Perhaps someone could identify him. I believe that was indeed the goal. 43 seconds in length. 2 seconds shown. I am not sure many people would be able to identify anyone they didn't know extremely well. I am not second guessing. I am actually wondering why more video was not shown. (I too have 3 grandchildren who I love to the moon; I do understand your point of view). Thank you for your reply.

I'll offer my opinion on this, it's only a guess.

I don't think that LE is sitting on other useful footage of the man and are deciding not to release it for investigative reasons. If they had better video or even still images, I think (my opinion only) they would show them.

Instead I think it's likely that Libby was videoing the man surreptitiously and as he got closer - whether out of fear or distraction - she held the phone in such a way that his image was no longer captured, though the video continued to record. Perhaps she placed the phone against her side or even put it in a pocket while it continued to record. LE may have two blurry seconds of the man and 41 seconds of the trees and sky. We may never know. But I do think that if LE had any other image to show the public...they would.
 

TedMac

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I'll offer my opinion on this, it's only a guess.

I don't think that LE is sitting on other useful footage of the man and are deciding not to release it for investigative reasons. If they had better video or even still images, I think (my opinion only) they would show them.

Instead I think it's likely that Libby was videoing the man surreptitiously and as he got closer - whether out of fear or distraction - she held the phone in such a way that his image was no longer captured, though the video continued to record. Perhaps she placed the phone against her side or even put it in a pocket while it continued to record. LE may have two blurry seconds of the man and 41 seconds of the trees and sky. We may never know. But I do think that if LE had any other image to show the public...they would.
I totally agree. If LE had more video of BG, it would have been made public by now.
 

IQuestion

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Speaking for myself alone---

I think LE released just the bit of Bridge Guy, alone, so that perhaps someone could identify him.

I personally do not want to see any video at all that includes what happened to Libby and Abby. Even with blurred faces and muted voices.

We already know what they look like. I do NOT AT ALL want to see them being dragged, or assaulted, or attacked, or fruitlessly trying to escape, or witness their screams, even muted. I don't want to see their faces go from perplexed to terrified.

I have three young grandchildren, two of them girls. If God forbid this was my family, I would not want the public to see any of it, either.

Jmo
ARKAY (grandchildren? Such a joy!! It must be wonderful.) I absolutely understand your point. Listening to recordings of 911 calls is enough to send me into therapy. For that reason, I tend to avoid threads involving children. However this case was so compelling. Two smart young girls living active lives in a rural midwest town: softball, volley ball, band. One day, if this case proceeds to trial... a lot of people will have to relive those awful moments and see evidence that can never be unseen and listen to testimony that can never be unheard. (Crime scene photos, video, audio, autopsies, coroner report, eyewitnesses.) It is going to be heartbreakingly rough, I am in agreement with you! This is the wake up call to many parents (none more blind than me) to the opportunistic predators who hide in plain sight. Now, they don't even have to show their hideous faces to get to the children.... they find them on the very phones we gave our kids thinking they would be safe. (Hang 'em all!! Oh, in my humble opinion)
PS. KK is only 27 years old and probably been honing his skills for a decade.... pretty darned scary.
 
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Gerrymd8

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I'll offer my opinion on this, it's only a guess.

I don't think that LE is sitting on other useful footage of the man and are deciding not to release it for investigative reasons. If they had better video or even still images, I think (my opinion only) they would show them.

Instead I think it's likely that Libby was videoing the man surreptitiously and as he got closer - whether out of fear or distraction - she held the phone in such a way that his image was no longer captured, though the video continued to record. Perhaps she placed the phone against her side or even put it in a pocket while it continued to record. LE may have two blurry seconds of the man and 41 seconds of the trees and sky. We may never know. But I do think that if LE had any other image to show the public...they would.
Thanks.... This makes the most sense to me. And just never thought of it.
 

sunshineray

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Bradfordsleuth...BINGO! Snipped and ABC'd by me. You hit 3 major issues. I remember years ago many WS'ers, including me, discussed the familiar/casual/colloquial form of address "guys" when it was released by LE. For some reason it was reduced in length to just 3 words. I still feel the words were more of a direction or location as opposed to a command. But of course if someone had a gun in their hands when they said it...definitely a command.
Q "Have you seen A-shots?"
A "Yah, the guy's down the hill" or "You want to see the guys down the hill." or "I just saw the guys down the hill."
There are just too many ways to interpret the words before and after "down the hill." A response?, an order?, a direction?....a contraction?, referring to one other or more than one?. I just can't figure it out. I too am bewildered by the vagueness of only 3 words. How would it ever be possible to identify with confidence a voice, recorded through pocket lining or under a jacket? Dhaaang, video, audio, short time frame and still no identified killer, right?n
Then of course 20 minutes at the crime scene...nah, maybe 20 minutes to drag an unconscious person a quarter of a mile? And also carrying another person the same distance. But now I Question... what was it in the killer's mind that compelled him to put the victims together, even in death? Is that the message/signature?
According to Anna Williams, Abby's Mom, she said the girls saw a gun, spoke of a gun and a gun was heard being cocked in the audio. So I don't think it was a hey guys, the person you cane to meet is down the hill. It was an abduction. AJMO

Start at 49 min mark, gun at 51:00 min mark

The girls are discussing which way to go. It appears they were talking about two ways to go but said it was hard to hear the audio.

Abby says "Is that a gun? He's got a gun."

BG says "Hey" (probably supposed to be "Guys")

Libby then says "Hmmm"

BG says "Down the hill" and then the sound of a gun cocking is heard


 

IQuestion

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I totally agree with you. I have absolutely zero desire to see them dragged, assaulted, attacked, or fruitlessly trying to escape. However, IF there were video of the criminal available beyond what was shown without the above images and knowing technology these days, I would hope that law enforcement would put it out there. You are correct. Perhaps someone could identify him. I believe that was indeed the goal. 43 seconds in length. 2 seconds shown. I am not sure many people would be able to identify anyone they didn't know extremely well. I am not second guessing. I am actually wondering why more video was not shown. (I too have 3 grandchildren who I love to the moon; I do understand your point of view). Thank you for your reply.
Hi new member GERRYMD8! Would you serve as a juror if a case like this came up? (Jump in, the water's fine!)
 

HistoryNut

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According to Anna Williams, Abby's Mom, she said the girls saw a gun, spoke of a gun and a gun was heard being cocked in the audio. So I don't think it was a hey guys, the person you cane to meet is down the hill. It was an abduction. AJMO

Start at 49 min mark, gun at 51:00 min mark

The girls are discussing which way to go. It appears they were talking about two ways to go but said it was hard to hear the audio.

Abby says "Is that a gun? He's got a gun."

BG says "Hey" (probably supposed to be "Guys")

Libby then says "Hmmm"

BG says "Down the hill" and then the sound of a gun cocking is heard


I recall hearing about this but can’t remember where. It makes sense that this is why LE hasn’t released the rest.
 

UnapologeticallyAspie

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Agree. I do not, and never have, believed RL is BG. However, I am suspicious that he had some nexus to the crime and/or BG. I think he knew things. As you said, he didn't want to tell what he knew, so he tried to fix it as if he wasn't there.
IMO
I completely agree…x infinity.

moo
 

JnRyan

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According to Anna Williams, Abby's Mom, she said the girls saw a gun, spoke of a gun and a gun was heard being cocked in the audio. So I don't think it was a hey guys, the person you cane to meet is down the hill. It was an abduction. AJMO

Start at 49 min mark, gun at 51:00 min mark

The girls are discussing which way to go. It appears they were talking about two ways to go but said it was hard to hear the audio.

Abby says "Is that a gun? He's got a gun."

BG says "Hey" (probably supposed to be "Guys")

Libby then says "Hmmm"

BG says "Down the hill" and then the sound of a gun cocking is heard


I don't put much stock in this. If we hear it directly from Anna, then yes. If I hear it from GH saying Anna told him then that is second hand information and I don't give it much weight, if any. But here this sounds like someone is telling GH that Anna told him and he is relaying this to GH. That would be, what, third hand information. We have no confirmation from Anna here or, to the best of my knowledge, anywhere else that Anna Williams actually said that about a gun. <modsnip>
 
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scruffydog

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FrostedGlass, thank you so, so, so much for pointing this out back on 5/30/22.
Interesting also that on pg. 2, item 4, it states that the girls were "found dead by wounds cause by a (blacked out ) weapon. If you compare the number of letters that would make up the blacked out word, to the lines of typing above and below, it appears that the word it approximately 6 letters long. I know that "sharp" contains 5 letters, but I'm assuming that is the word?
 
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