Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

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FrostedGlass

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Thank you for posting the warrant.

I have two questions in general. Not to you specifically, just to raise them.

1) did LE check what RL bought in Aquarium store? He said, fish, but these stores sell tons of chemicals. Would be very important to find out from the receipt.

2) interestingly, at 2:09 his phone can be placed not precisely, but in the vicinity of MHB.

Just wanted to attract everyone’s attention that, triangulation impossible and all, they were able to place RL’s phone in the vicinity of MHB, at 2:09.

I think it is an interesting fact.
About the phone, it seems that I remember RL blew his own alibi by telling LE that he didn't leave for the fish store until 3 pm. It seems like it was GH who talked about that. I don't put a lot of stock in the relative's memory of the exact time frame; him changing his story made me a bit suspicious.

When LE found out RL lied about his whereabouts, if they didn't thoroughly check him out, then they've got a problem.
 

Ravenmoon

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Thank you for posting the warrant.

I have two questions in general. Not to you specifically, just to raise them.

1) did LE check what RL bought in Aquarium store? He said, fish, but these stores sell tons of chemicals. Would be very important to find out from the receipt.

2) interestingly, at 2:09 his phone can be placed not precisely, but in the vicinity of MHB.

Just wanted to attract everyone’s attention that, triangulation impossible and all, they were able to place RL’s phone in the vicinity of MHB, at 2:09.

I think it is an interesting fact.

I am not sure about your first question- but RL's phone being in the vicinity is likely due to the fact that he lives in the vicinity.

MOO
 

Ravenmoon

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About the phone, it seems that I remember RL blew his own alibi by telling LE that he didn't leave for the fish store until 3 pm. It seems like it was GH who talked about that. I don't put a lot of stock in the relative's memory of the exact time frame; him changing his story made me a bit suspicious.

When LE found out RL lied about his whereabouts, if they didn't thoroughly check him out, then they've got a problem.


FWIW-
The fact that RL told LE he left for the fish store around 3 sheds light on the probability that he had no idea the girls were accosted and likely murdered just before that.

RL was a grumpy old guy that had a serious drinking problem.
I don't picture him as a murderer.

MOO
 

FrostedGlass

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FWIW-
The fact that RL told LE he left for the fish store around 3 sheds light on the probability that he had no idea the girls were accosted and likely murdered just before that.

RL was a grumpy old guy that had a serious drinking problem.
I don't picture him as a murderer.

MOO
His problems seemed to coincide with his divorce. I didn't see anything on his record prior to that but maybe I missed something. After the divorce came financial problems. Considering his age, losing his wife and losing his home and animals would be enough to make a person turn to drinking.
 

scruffydog

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I've seen the claim somewhere that a longer redacted word describing the souvenir taken by the killer(s) is "undergarments." I tend to believe it. It's a long word for a long black bar in the text. It's also consistent with the FBI agent concluding the killer was a deviant taking pictures. There were clearly aspects of the scene that pointed her to that.
yes, WildHuncher, I absolutely believe that word was undergarments or underwear
 

scruffydog

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UA,
I wonder too. Thank you for being so relentless in your questioning and examining of details.

"Bladed" weapon? (Only 6 letters though)

According to wiki:
Bladed weapons

Featured snippet from the web​


An edged weapon, or bladed weapon, is a melee weapon with a cutting edge. Bladed weapons include swords, daggers, knives, and bayonets. Edged weapons are used to cut, hack, or slash; some edged weapons (such as many kinds of swords) may also permit thrusting and stabbing.
yes, "bladed" would certainly fit. But you would not say "a Hatchett weapon"
 

JnRyan

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His problems seemed to coincide with his divorce. I didn't see anything on his record prior to that but maybe I missed something. After the divorce came financial problems. Considering his age, losing his wife and losing his home and animals would be enough to make a person turn to drinking.
That's where I'm at on RL.
 

Charlot123

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His problems seemed to coincide with his divorce. I didn't see anything on his record prior to that but maybe I missed something. After the divorce came financial problems. Considering his age, losing his wife and losing his home and animals would be enough to make a person turn to drinking.
Newspapers.com Has Indiana Journal and Courrier. There is an article about his divorce, but it dates back to 1973. That was almost 50 years ago. Or do you mean, another, later, divorce?

I don’t want to comment on everything in the deceased man’s life, but he seems to remember fondly his son visiting as a kid, and then the son’s friends coming in (it is in his video interview). I think there were times when he was happy, but then, there were losses in his life. But this specifically, remembering the children playing, doesn’t bode well with the image of RL killing teenagers. Once, he did feel the father. In general, I don’t think he was the BG, clothes notwithstanding.
 

IQuestion

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With these types its not usually a learned behavior however, its usually a sexual issue that's been held at bay for awhile and sometimes, fueled by sexual materials the offender likes , then they come across the victim(s) with no adult presence and they act. they are more like killers in waiting than active predators, (more like a crocodile than a wolf if you will)

Or misplaced anger, that the victim was simply representative of .
Thanks KELL1, Can always rely on you to give background on possible type of offender. Are you saying it is a pent up resentment (anger towards females, job, relatives, health, break up) as you wrote, "fueled by sexual materials the offender likes?" Even if it was a growing compulsion, wouldn't the offender still use other "instincts/familiar locale/learned behavior/skills" to offend, attack and escape. Afterall, this wasn't a crazed surfer who attacks women on the beach, a co-worker who traps a female employee in the company parking structure, a guy who drugs a woman at a bar etc.
What bothers me the most is the use of words like "sickness" and "problem".... euphemisms to describe unspeakable criminal issues. These guys know it is immoral, they know it is criminal and why (IMO) they work so hard to hide their activities. The offender knows it is wrong and yet still commit the crime..... in my book that is premeditation.
(I still see the step-drag-step drag type of gait as BG approached...even if no one else does. The planks aren't as damaged at either end of the bridge. I wish the pressers had never said he walked that way because the bridge was dilapidated and to look at mannerisms instead. C'mon I didn't say I saw baby goats, too.)
 

mom2chloe

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Thank you for posting the warrant.

I have two questions in general. Not to you specifically, just to raise them.

1) did LE check what RL bought in Aquarium store? He said, fish, but these stores sell tons of chemicals. Would be very important to find out from the receipt.

2) interestingly, at 2:09 his phone can be placed not precisely, but in the vicinity of MHB.

Just wanted to attract everyone’s attention that, triangulation impossible and all, they were able to place RL’s phone in the vicinity of MHB, at 2:09.

I think it is an interesting fact.
I’m curious as the accountability of RL’s cousin particularly since RL sought the alibi from as well as his other family where abouts the entire day.
 

Kell1

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Thanks KELL1, Can always rely on you to give background on possible type of offender. Are you saying it is a pent up resentment (anger towards females, job, relatives, health, break up) as you wrote, "fueled by sexual materials the offender likes?" Even if it was a growing compulsion, wouldn't the offender still use other "instincts/familiar locale/learned behavior/skills" to offend, attack and escape. Afterall, this wasn't a crazed surfer who attacks women on the beach, a co-worker who traps a female employee in the company parking structure, a guy who drugs a woman at a bar etc.
What bothers me the most is the use of words like "sickness" and "problem".... euphemisms to describe unspeakable criminal issues. These guys know it is immoral, they know it is criminal and why (IMO) they work so hard to hide their activities. The offender knows it is wrong and yet still commit the crime..... in my book that is premeditation.
(I still see the step-drag-step drag type of gait as BG approached...even if no one else does. The planks aren't as damaged at either end of the bridge. I wish the pressers had never said he walked that way because the bridge was dilapidated and to look at mannerisms instead. C'mon I didn't say I saw baby goats, too.)
That tends to be a matter of circumstance with them, see they live a periodically transient lifestyle, so lets say in terms of their familiarity with locations etc, is usually limited to within whatever time frame they live in that area, which is usually within 12 months prior to the offense.

They move around a lot because they get caught doing things, and after they serve whatever punishment is handed down, they move , usually its to live a relative somewhere.

'Pre-meditation" in legal terms only pertains to the crime itself , not an overall psyche of the offender. And its only pertinent if a crime was committed .

Pre-meditation is basically planning , most of these types of crimes, are NOT planned at all. They are spur of the moment incidents that occur when the planets align, for an on edge individual (for whatever reason)

Now prior to abducting a victim, the offender may fantasize about it , but rarely do they actively set out on the hunt if you will. In the case of Serial killers however they may, sometimes, even elaborately , however even then with child victims they tend to be more of an opportunity grab.

These types are usually in some daily congress, when a target of opportunity crosses their path, then they act impulsively.

As for the terminology, I agree, if they were truly "sick" or mentally ill, which is completely against their will, then maybe they'd have an excuse, but this is not a "sickness" , a sickness can be treated or cured, this is a preference, and though a preference can be changed in some cases, it cant be "cured".

Actually labeling them "sickos" or "perverts" does more harm than good, because those who are attracted to minors, will then more than likely hide their inclinations, often avoiding any type of treatment, relying on self help, and that's when it can get really really dangerous.

"The most dangerous shark is the one you don't see"....(anonymous)

No one is going to let their child go for a ride with someone they know is sexually attracted to kids, although in this day and age nothing stuns me , but they may let their child hop in a car with the "nice quiet kid" from down the street who doesn't have any friends, if you know what i mean.

Opportunity then presents itself, and as we now that's how these types operate , no adult around, now the planets are aligning, and depending on the impulse control of the individual, that's when something bad happens ....IE Its always better to know

And though they may not be able to control their attraction to children anymore than an adult can control their attraction to other adults, .....they are 100% responsible for their actions concerning such.
 

FrostedGlass

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Newspapers.com Has Indiana Journal and Courrier. There is an article about his divorce, but it dates back to 1973. That was almost 50 years ago. Or do you mean, another, later, divorce?

I don’t want to comment on everything in the deceased man’s life, but he seems to remember fondly his son visiting as a kid, and then the son’s friends coming in (it is in his video interview). I think there were times when he was happy, but then, there were losses in his life. But this specifically, remembering the children playing, doesn’t bode well with the image of RL killing teenagers. Once, he did feel the father. In general, I don’t think he was the BG, clothes notwithstanding.
I can't get the one you're talking about. I'm looking at Indiana records.

I've never suspected him and always felt bad that he went through what he did.
 

Spartygirl

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Interesting. Were any of his KK family members at the 2019 press conference? P.S. I edited this only because I posted incorrectly the first time. I guess you can tell I am new to the posting stuff.
Welcome to WS !!!!
and Great question

I will be on a mission now when I get back home to go through all the 2019 Presser photos

I dont know what his dad or grandpa look like (guess I need to look that up first LOL) or any other family members though but I can look for KAK to see if he was there.
 

Spartygirl

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Interesting. Were any of his KK family members at the 2019 press conference? P.S. I edited this only because I posted incorrectly the first time. I guess you can tell I am new to the posting stuff.
DBM- duplicate
 

AC4RD

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Welcome to WS !!!! and Great question

I will be on a mission now when I get back home to go through all the 2019 Presser photos

I dont know what his dad or grandpa look like (guess I need to look that up first LOL) or any other family members though but I can look for KAK to see if he was there.
Spartygirl is right, that's a very interesting question, and one I had never thought of. OK, people, photos from the presser--we have homework for the weekend! ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
 

chaz

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Spartygirl is right, that's a very interesting question, and one I had never thought of. OK, people, photos from the presser--we have homework for the weekend! ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
Here's one with 29 photo's to start with.
 
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