Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

[photographer4]

LE has implied or said that the audio recording from Libby's phone was continuous from the "down the hill" order until the murders were committed. So, whoever BG guy was, he was the guy who took them to the crime scene and killed them. If BG was not the killer, LE would know it from the recording. Since early days after the murder, LE has said that BG was the killer.

Do you think then that the killing was all said and done within 43 seconds? Because that is how long we're told that the video recording was. We are also told by LE that the kids were found where they were killed. If so, how'd he get them to the killing area in that time frame? Also, who shut off the recording, or why did it shut off once everything was said and done? I'm not sure I believe that it was all caught on the recording unless somehow there is more than one audio / video recording.

 

[Sillybilly]

RL has had LE attention from the beginning. Unfortunately they did not find any evidence that we are aware of that was any more incriminating than lying to a LEO. Police had certainly moved on from RL. As far as texts/calls etc from 2/13 or 2/14 I am surprised there were not more. I would think people and Ron would be talking about the missing girls and search etc. Remember that this is not anything close to normal activity for the area. By the time he got back from the fish store it was dark and I just don’t see him out wondering out back looking for the girls or roaming around the woods.
I also just don’t think he does this crime goes home changes clothes and decides it’s time to go to the fish store.

Michman015

Just jumping off your post MichMan105, and sorry if I'm rehashing that which has already been discussed at length ...

This Delphi Timeline article for Libby and Abby states that the search "resumed" February 14th at approx. 11:45 am.

Why was RL arranging a fake alibi 9:30 am February 14th covering a time period 2:00 to 2:30 pm on February 13th, when the girls were still just know to missing, and not located deceased until around noon on February 14th?

Until they were actually located, everyone else (searcher, LE, etc) would have no need for an alibi because the girls may have still been located alive and well later that day?

 

[hafom8840]

Do you think then that the killing was all said and done within 43 seconds? Because that is how long we're told that the video recording was. We are also told by LE that the kids were found where they were killed. If so, how'd he get them to the killing area in that time frame? Also, who shut off the recording, or why did it shut off once everything was said and done? I'm not sure I believe that it was all caught on the recording unless somehow there is more than one audio / video recording.

I doubt it. I think he marched them to their deaths after the video stopped recording.

 

[WildHuncher]

Also recall that the recently revealed search warrant made reference to LE thinking that the killer did something that sounded like taking photo or video. May or may not be relevant.

Probably relevant. Between this, the moving and staging of the bodies, and the removal of clothing items from the scene, the case for any non-sexual motive is greatly weakened. What we're reading in that application is that the nature of the posing tells an experienced FBI agent that the killer intended pictures.

 

[Betty P]

Do you think then that the killing was all said and done within 43 seconds? Because that is how long we're told that the video recording was. We are also told by LE that the kids were found where they were killed. If so, how'd he get them to the killing area in that time frame? Also, who shut off the recording, or why did it shut off once everything was said and done? I'm not sure I believe that it was all caught on the recording unless somehow there is more than one audio / video recording.

Thanks, but I'll have to go back and re-check that data. I recall LE saying they wouldn't reveal the rest of the recording contained the attack against one of the girls. I suppose its possible that LE gave out false information to the public about the length of the recording and that it has later been changed. That would be possible, we'll have to see.

It's also possible that LE was not telling the truth in those first days/week when they said BG was the killer. That would be unusual. Is LE now saying BG isn't the killer? If so, its interesting.

JMO

Thanks.

 

[Peppery]

Also recall that the recently revealed search warrant made reference to LE thinking that the killer did something that sounded like taking photo or video. May or may not be relevant.

Where in the SW is that? How would LE know something sounded like a photo or video was taken?

 

[Betty P]

Where in the SW is that? How would LE know something sounded like a photo or video was taken?

Welcome to Websleuths! I'll look for it for you. If you happen to have a copy of your own of the transcript, look for the word digital.

The search warrant made a vague reference. Perhaps they made it up, perhaps they had a hunch, perhaps they saw something at the crime scene. Obviously, they're not talking yet.

All JMO, MOO

 

[IceIce9]

The thing that gets me is RL asking his cousin to lie he picked him up between 2-2:30 and Libby's picture of Abby on bridge posted at 2:07. Shortly after BG was on the bridge heading towards the girls. So that 2-2:30 probably includes the actual down the hill abduction time. It's also been mentioned one of the girls may have been dragged to the murder scene.

Maybe that's what RL heard, what drew his attention, the reaction of one of the girls to the other being incapacitated?

The only thing is why wouldn't a person yell down to seeing something, HEY WHAT'S GOIN ON!! That I wouldn't understand from a man in his 70's on his land...not doing that.

So maybe the lies all were just about him driving under probation?

Where did you see that one of the may have been dragged to the murder scene? I don’t remember seeing it and must have missed it.

 

[Peppery]

Welcome to Websleuths! I'll look for it for you. If you happen to have a copy of your own of the transcript, look for the word digital.

The search warrant made a vague reference. Perhaps they made it up, perhaps they had a hunch, perhaps they saw something at the crime scene. Obviously, they're not talking yet.

All JMO, MOO

Thanks for the warm welcome, though you’re about 8 years too late lol!

I’d appreciate any link you could provide. I just read the search warrant again and still didn’t see anything saying LE believes they heard a noise that sounded like a photo or video was taken, unless they are talking about Libby’s video. I saw that the agent believes it’s common for perps of this type of crime to “memorialize” it with photos or video but nothing saying they heard it.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for the warm welcome, though you’re about 8 years too late lol!

I’d appreciate any link you could provide. I just read the search warrant again and still didn’t see anything saying LE believes they heard a noise that sounded like a photo or video was taken, unless they are talking about Libby’s video. I saw that the agent believes it’s common for perps of this type of crime to “memorialize” it with photos or video but nothing saying they heard it.

BBM

This is what I was referring to. I didn't say they heard or saw anything. There's an implication that this might have happened. We've discussed this enough now, I'm not sure of the original point of the discussion, but I had speculated that LE believed the man on whose property the crime occurred may have been involved in some way, possibly having seen what happened, took photos, etc. That's one of the reasons why they wanted a SW. Not saying that's what happened. We won't know until someone is arrested and the investigation is complete.

JMO, MOO

 

[AC4RD]

...
But in my own interpretation of the FBI agent's description, I think it sounds as if the killer started at the north side and followed the girls across. In this case, he likely made it across in 4-5 minutes or less, which is apparently pretty quick. Maybe it was the speed in which he was gaining on them that freaked them out? Any thoughts?

For a while now, I've thought that the killer searched the south end of the bridge to make sure there was nobody around. Then he went to the north end and hung around, waiting for targets to go over the bridge. The girls went (in my imagining of this) across to the south end, and after they were there or nearly there, the murderer followed--knowing that the girls were largely trapped with no rescue nearby. It seems likely to me. I also think he may have intended to steer the girls to the overhanging bluffs on the south side, the side OTHER than the cemetery side, and that the girls bolted for the creek trying to escape. (Children, PLEASE, run, scream, kick, fight!)

Side issue: we've got one vote for "down the hill" and one for "go down the hill" from the audio of the 2/17/2017 press conference. I would really like to know what EVERYBODY who listens to that 2/17 audio thinks. It seems clear to me but that's just one opinion. If you listen, let me know? Thanks! --ken

 

[sandy_80]

The early witness is where the current sketch YBG came from. And we still have ISP Carter's words that it could wind up BG is a combination of the OBG (first released) and YBG (second released and current) sketches combined.

i meant the (young ) witness of the first sketch not the second ..
I dont care about what he says.. it doesn't make any sense...they say in the same breath that its two individuals

 

[Lilbirdie]

I just don’t see how a 77 year old man with a white fluffy mustache is video BG, OBG, or YBG. The witnesses that provided input into the sketch would have surely pointed out his big white mustache. Could it be as simple as this is a small town and many people were already talking and asking RL questions (including cops) early on given the proximity of his house and he got spooked and thought it prudent to secure his alibi even though the girls were not yet found?? I could see this being the case more than I can see RL being BG.

 

[Falling Down]

For a while now, I've thought that the killer searched the south end of the bridge to make sure there was nobody around. Then he went to the north end and hung around, waiting for targets to go over the bridge. The girls went (in my imagining of this) across to the south end, and after they were there or nearly there, the murderer followed--knowing that the girls were largely trapped with no rescue nearby. It seems likely to me. I also think he may have intended to steer the girls to the overhanging bluffs on the south side, the side OTHER than the cemetery side, and that the girls bolted for the creek trying to escape. (Children, PLEASE, run, scream, kick, fight!)

Side issue: we've got one vote for "down the hill" and one for "go down the hill" from the audio of the 2/17/2017 press conference. I would really like to know what EVERYBODY who listens to that 2/17 audio thinks. It seems clear to me but that's just one opinion. If you listen, let me know? Thanks! --ken

BG had plenty of time to make sure the coast was clear, so to speak. I'm going off my own experience of having walked the two trails, albeit on a weekend in late 2020 when people were indeed there. Then, all-of-a-sudden, I was alone by the MHB. Nobody around for 20+ minutes.

Now I want people to imagine a normal work day like 2.13.17. The traffic there would have been sporadic, at best, with large gaps in time between single and groups of trail users. Gaps in time among trail users might exceed an hour, on nice days, even. Just throwing that out there as an example.

BG would have had time to just hang out, making sure nobody was down by the creek, and would have observed trail users had he merely just sat and/or stood by the main trail before the girls got there.

 

[Falling Down]

I just don’t see how a 77 year old man with a white fluffy mustache is video BG, OBG, or YBG. The witnesses that provided input into the sketch would have surely pointed out his big white mustache. Could it be as simple as this is a small town and many people were already talking and asking RL questions (including cops) early on given the proximity of his house and he got spooked and thought it prudent to secure his alibi even though the girls were not yet found?? I could see this being the case more than I can see RL being BG.

I've gone off the assumption BG chose that spot because he knew nobody would recognize him.

Why would anyone local to the bridge area go out there to kill someone?

Good post.

 

[m00c0w]

Just jumping off your post MichMan105, and sorry if I'm rehashing that which has already been discussed at length ...

This Delphi Timeline article for Libby and Abby states that the search "resumed" February 14th at approx. 11:45 am.

Why was RL arranging a fake alibi 9:30 am February 14th covering a time period 2:00 to 2:30 pm on February 13th, when the girls were still just know to missing, and not located deceased until around noon on February 14th?

Until they were actually located, everyone else (searcher, LE, etc) would have no need for an alibi because the girls may have still been located alive and well later that day?

My thought on this is that the disappearance and timeline was running on the local news that night. It would not surprise me if RL saw it and assumed the kids were abducted based on how it was being talked about on the news. The timeframe they disappeared was between 1 and 5:30 from what was in the article I posted upthread, so it honestly seems like he just decided to say he was gone for a big chunk of that in the middle so he'd be left alone about it and no one would dig into his driving around on his own.

As I've stated, the 2-2:30 timeframe was told to police on 3/7, and the cousin admitted to lying on 3/9. RL himself told police on 3/6, before any of that, that he was picked up at 3 (This timeline is found in the affidavit). That makes it seem like he was just concerned about the afternoon, not really a specific timeframe. Otherwise, why would he outright implicate himself directly to police if he was seriously concerned about 2-2:30?

MOO

 

[MichMan015]

I would believe that RL recognized he could go to jail if found driving and he was scrambling to get some kind of alibi.
Michman015

 

[Falling Down]

I would believe that RL recognized he could go to jail if found driving and he was scrambling to get some kind of alibi.
Michman015

Agreed.

He was trying to avoid jail time.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The tv stations were running news on Libby and Abby and the girl from Detroit? fairly often. By late that evening, we were feeling a bit of dread. When morning came and they still hadn't been found, I really thought something bad had happened to them. I don't think it's unrealistic to think that RL could have the same thoughts.

 

[TL4S]

Side issue: we've got one vote for "down the hill" and one for "go down the hill" from the audio of the 2/17/2017 press conference. I would really like to know what EVERYBODY who listens to that 2/17 audio thinks. It seems clear to me but that's just one opinion. If you listen, let me know? Thanks! --ken

Thanks for directing me to that early PC and audio clip. I can't hear much of anything that's being said, so I'm actually amazed they were able to clean it up as well as they did. I do truly wonder how accurate the voice we hear in later versions is, seeing as how distorted the original sounds. That said, I can hear the rhythm of what's being said, and I hear "down the hill." Actually, I think they have the "guys" part in there, too, but it's in quick succession because I know they've cut out some of the girls' voices. Ugh... it gives me chills. It pi**es me off every time I hear that audio. How dare he.