Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

[FrostedGlass]

I don't know. I always wondered if it mainly served as due diligence since PE had been previously tipped in to LE. But the request, either way, suggested there was forensic evidence in Delphi. I had hoped, anyway. Now we know they at least have hair and fiber.

So they likely were looking for physical evidence, too. Looking for a gait problem, foot issue, evidence of smoking/chewing tobacco, teeth...what else?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Animal hair contains DNA just the same as human DNA. If there was a root present, the girls’ pets could be excluded as contributors based on a DNA test.

No root, then a side by side comparison could determine if the hair came from the same animal. This examination could also exclude family pets.

Examination and testing could also determine type of animal, ie, dog, cat, cow etc.

If family pets are excluded via either of these methods, the contributor (if known) could be included as the contributor.

Fascinating stuff what can be done with a single hair.

What are the chances those things were done prior to the search warrant?

 

[TL4S]

So they likely were looking for physical evidence, too. Looking for a gait problem, foot issue, evidence of smoking/chewing tobacco, teeth...what else?

I've wondered about traces of drug or medication???

 

[MichMan015]

LE has suggested by there search warrants there maybe pics/video. If the perp or perps took some kind of video or pics there must be evidence of it from Libbeys phone. This would be the only source correct? Is it possible the phone recorded a click? From comments made about the audio it was pretty poor before it was cleaned up. Could it pick this up? Are they looking for just CSAM?
What would make them think this exists?

 

[m00c0w]

LE has suggested by there search warrants there maybe pics/video. If the perp or perps took some kind of video or pics there must be evidence of it from Libbeys phone. This would be the only source correct? Is it possible the phone recorded a click? From comments made about the audio it was pretty poor before it was cleaned up. Could it pick this up? Are they looking for just CSAM?
What would make them think this exists?

They don’t suggest this happened in the SW. They plainly say that based on their training and experience, it is common for killers to do things to memorialize the crime scene. This includes photos. It was a line specifically intended to provide reason to include phones, tablets, computers, cameras, whatever in the SW in case this did happen. They provided no claim that it actually did happen, only that it is common.

 

[MichMan015]

Oh okay I see the difference.
Let’s pray they get the piece they need to bring this all together

 

[WildHuncher]

The leaked document is not a search warrant. It is an FBI agent's formal request listing elements of probable cause and seeking a warrant.

 

[carbuff]

So they likely were looking for physical evidence, too. Looking for a gait problem, foot issue, evidence of smoking/chewing tobacco, teeth...what else?

Boy, I go off for a few days of vacation and you guys find a new way to blow everything up But I'm finally caught up.

I'm remembering that when they flew out to Colorado to talk to DN, they eliminated him very quickly, too. I think there must be something quite obvious.

 

[m00c0w]

The leaked document is not a search warrant. It is an FBI agent's formal request listing elements of probable cause and seeking a warrant.

This is pedantic. It’s the affidavit applying for a search warrant, and the search warrant itself. The affidavit and search warrant are presented and left together at the execution of the warrant. It’s effectively one document. I’m not sure why you are quibbling over this.

JMO

 

[PnzrIVausf.G]

Idk,I'm going to pour over and analyze footage from the motorcycle rally,I have a feeling BG was there.I assume I'll need a keen pair of eyes because I also assume that he changed his appearance before attending the motorcycle rally but all this is JMO.

 

[photographer4]

I was curious about common sources of fibers and animal hair found at a crime scene. Considering both girls had a pet, did the fibers come from their own clothing?

Fiber - Crime Museum

The Federal Bureau of Investigation identifies fiber as the smallest unit of a textile material that has a length many times greater than its diameter. Fibers can be natural (derived from plants and animals) or synthetic (man-made). Plant-based fibers include cotton, flax, jute, and hemp. The...

www.crimemuseum.org

Fibers are gathered from a crime scene using tweezers, tape, or a vacuum. The most common sources of transferred fibers are clothing, drapes, rugs, furniture, and blankets. Once fibers are collected, they are brought to a lab and then placed under a microscope, where they are compared against fibers from a suspected source.

Or... jumping off your post, is is possible that hair / fiber was transferred to the girls from being in KG's car on the drive to the trail? We know KG gave AW a sweater from the car to wear - how long was it there? That evidence could have come from anyone who'd been in that car at any point really.

 

[TL4S]

Reading over some older articles. This is from the Feb. 13, 2018 PC at the MHB trail. It sounds to me, at that point, they thought there was only one killer. That's just the way I'm reading it...

Delphi murders update 2019: Here's what we know about unsolved killings of Abby and Libby

Even though no arrests have been made, Carter said he believes "we're one piece of the puzzle away from figuring out who this individual is."

"Somebody out there knows who this person is," he said. "I don't think there's multiple pieces of the puzzle. ... I think there's one piece. And it's having one individual with the strength to say that was my brother, that's my dad, or that's my cousin, that's my neighbor, my co-worker. And I think we're one piece away — one piece."

 

[sunshineray]

LE has suggested by there search warrants there maybe pics/video. If the perp or perps took some kind of video or pics there must be evidence of it from Libbeys phone. This would be the only source correct? Is it possible the phone recorded a click? From comments made about the audio it was pretty poor before it was cleaned up. Could it pick this up? Are they looking for just CSAM?
What would make them think this exists?

The FBI agent setting forth all the points of interest in the application for RL search warrant made a point of saying in her experience, within her many years investigating such crimes, she found things to be common or noticed correlations in the way crimes are carried out. Some of those being souvenirs being taken, staging of the victims occuring and video or photos being taken by the perpetrator(s). She didn't write that to imply they had proof, in the Delphi case, of ALL that happening, just that such things CAN be involved so they want to search for them at the person's property.

That's how I understood her words.

 

[AC4RD]

I agree that he probably viewed LE as people to be careful of. I get that he felt threatened and didn't want to have the crime pinned on him. ...
But then why is he calling his cousin up to concoct and alibi BEFORE the kids are even found?? At that point, all he knew at best was two kids were missing in the area of the bridge that he lived near. At the point when he called up his cousin, the kids weren't known to be *dead* yet. At least not to searchers or police. ...You don't need an alibi if two kids are just hurt or lost in the woods, do you? You need an alibi if two kids are *abducted* from the woods near your house, or when two kids are found dead, in your backyard.

You're quite right about all that. But JMHO, we might also consider that Delphi probably had a whirlwind of talk the evening of the 13th and the morning of the 14th--about where the girls were and why they were missing. We've all seen how rumor takes on a powerful life of its own when things are uncertain; I think it's entirely possible that RL heard people talking, worrying, guessing, about the girls, and he MIGHT have decided to cover his butt in some way.

I also think it's certainly possible, as some others have suggested, that RL became aware of something untoward going on down at the foot of his property, below the cemetery. Of course, if he KNEW something happened or was happening, and he didn't immediately call the police, he's a sorry excuse for a human being (MHO). But that's another issue. :-/

 

[WildHuncher]

This is pedantic. It’s the affidavit applying for a search warrant, and the search warrant itself. The affidavit and search warrant are presented and left together at the execution of the warrant. It’s effectively one document. I’m not sure why you are quibbling over this.

JMO

If the search warrant subsequently issued is present in the leaked materials, I missed it and apologize. The warrant itself was not on any link that I have so far followed and I for one have not seen it.

I just wish to avoid confusion. Thus far, all the discussion on this thread refers to the application for the warrant.

 

[Falling Down]

I don't recall an Amber Alert and just for the record going forward, according to this, Sgt Riley explained why the case did not meet the criterion.

Delphi, Indiana missing girls: State Police say an Amber Alert would not have done 'any good'​

This was the Amber Alert for Gary.

AMBER Alert issued for abducted Gary teenager

GARY, Ind. (WTHR) - The Gary Police Department is investigating the abduction of a child from Gary, Indiana. Chastinea Reeves is a 15-year-old black female, 5 feet 2 inches tall,

www.greensburgdailynews.com

 

[Falling Down]

It's also possible that the location where the perpetrator(s) killed the girls was not a planned choice so much as a consequence of actions the girls took that were outside the perpetrator'(s') control. Suppose that one or both of the girls - despite having their hands restrained shortly after the "Guys... down the hill" command, as I think likely - broke away, ran to and crossed the creek in an attempt to escape and she was (or they were) chased and recaptured. So, the perpetrator(s) killed and left the girls' bodies within a private location in close proximity to where that recapture occurred.

The perpetrator may have planned for an entirely different location, perhaps easily reached from the side of the creek where he first confronted them, or even entirely distant from the MHB and associated trails (if he had a vehicle nearby, on the road under the bridge or at a nearby property).

My only issue with that is the down the hill area the perp is referring to is extremely steep. Which I think was yet another part of his plan, he could control the situation better right off the bat.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

This was the Amber Alert for Gary.

AMBER Alert issued for abducted Gary teenager

GARY, Ind. (WTHR) - The Gary Police Department is investigating the abduction of a child from Gary, Indiana. Chastinea Reeves is a 15-year-old black female, 5 feet 2 inches tall,

www.greensburgdailynews.com

Thanks. From your post upthread, I took it that you meant there was an AA for Abby and Libby.

 

[stattlich1]

My only issue with that is the down the hill area the perp is referring to is extremely steep. Which I think was yet another part of his plan, he could control the situation better right off the bat.

JMO

I've thought about this down the hill thing for a couple years now. Absent video/audio or other definitive proof that BG murdered these girls, or was present at the scene when they were murdered, the possibility exists that BG didn't follow the girls down the hill.

I know that may not be a popular notion, however, in light of the gargantuan shift in speculation relative to this case, at this juncture, near any scenario is possible.

Anyone who has followed this case knows the total, absolute, confusion of the entire thing. OBG, NBG, various and sundry potential players, no social media involvement to oh hey, there WAS social media involvement, 1 killer, 2 killers, several killers, people arguing under the bridge, witness statements, changes in investigative direction, CSAM, a_shots, the list goes on ad nauseum, yes?

For this old boy, to close the door on any reasonably plausible scenario is simply not a good idea.

As far as I can tell, only a few facts exist. The girls crossed that bridge, one took a video of a guy on that bridge, there was audio released of that guy, and the girls bodies were found less than 24 hours later a relatively short distance from that bridge.

A-shots stuff appears to be fact.
The released application for a warrant appears to be, and contain, facts.
There are other documents extant that are fact.

But what happened between that bridge, and the time the girls were murdered, where their bodies were found, we simply do not know.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Since we are discussing “guys… down the hill”, please bear with me as I ask - how sure are we that “guys” was not the end of a question or sentence? And “down the hill” part of a new sentence. (The audio seems to pause or break between the two parts.)
ex: ”If you are looking for the guys, they are down the hill.”

I know this topic has been WELL covered here earlier, but with the new development of possible catfishing, multiple perps, I wasn’t sure it had been revisited.