Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

Yemelyan

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RSBM for focus:

<modsnip>

With that being said I have yet to find a supportive, credible article or link.

I did however come across an article regarding CSAM, pedophiles, and how trained K-9’s sniff out a specific chemical that help to track down pedophiles. This chemical is coated on all electronic devices — from thumbnails to SD cards.

And I wonder if this tactic has been deployed (employed?) with KAK and/or any other persons that he has had contact with, and anyone else that have had contact with all of those other people, and so on.

Here’s the link to the news article that I referenced, if anyone wants to read it: See how K-9s sniff out a telltale chemical to help track down pedophiles


(Always MOO. IMHO. IMHAspieO. YMMV. JMVHO.)

From the redacted pdf of the KAK interrogation, page 52, line 14 (you can get it from the media thread):

Deputy Clinton: "Bud, from your drop box account off your phone, we have started one of the largest child *advertiser censored* investigations even under taken in the state of Indiana."

We have no way to judge the truth of the actual statement, but this is the proof that it was said in the interrogation.
 
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Kell1

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(Not in any way intending to attack you, but using a chance to express my concern).

ISP is so preoccupied with KAK case. At the same time: how come the real owner of anthony_shatz profile, an Alaskan policeman, was never warned by ISP that two girls were catfished in his name and later, killed?

“ISP did not reach out and let me know prior to using the photos. It wasn’t until I saw their press release on their page to where I finally realized what had happened. I reached out to them after finding out and am in contact attempting to help in any way possible.”

We are talking about some criminal groups around Delphi, some pedophiles, how come no one warned that real guy, a cop, a father (now of three, I think)?

Least of all I want to accuse. But you see the weak point. How can things be changed?
Well theres a million reasons, 1 youd have to try to identify who is in those pictures, from billions of random pictures on the internet, which is a enormous task especially during a double murder investigation, therefore what is used, is the IP address, then metadata collected from confiscated devices and from what the state watchdog organization could track via electronic transfers.

In the endless sea of data that's out there, its almost impossible to always nail down who's who , you can do an image search, you can look at metadata on the pictures, you can try to track down the individual in those pictures, but its very well known, ....that these types, use fake pictures, (and personas) to communicate not only with a desired victim type, but with each other

Ive seen transcripts, and to an adult with no knowledge of what you are looking at,minus the point where the conversation becomes, sexual in nature ,youd think it was 2 kids communicating with each other.

Theres often volumes, of normal banter , it may hint at a romantic interest , but unless you really know what you are looking at (again minus any obvious sexual content) its what you think 2 kids talking to each other would sound like

It however is markedly different when they are communicating with other pedophiles, its almost SOLELY sexual in nature, except its not always explicit , and often they are pretending to be kids themselves. They think LE wont notice, "here's a pic of me and my cousin" and its a explicit image , "do you have any pics or vids of ?" etc...

The tough part is teaching a young adult maybe seeking her/his first romantic encounter, while dealing with todays teen issues, coming into their own sexuality, perhaps blinded by such, that predators, lurk, and not everything is always what it seems.

Kids today have 10x the issues we did growing up, my god they are bathed in data almost from the time they can speak, they have access to literally everything, they are smarter than we are, they are fed by devices their entire life, they rarely even need to leave the house for anything , food, order, it , need a book?, order it , or look up a pdf, or read it on line, during the pandemic, they even went to school from their own bedrooms!...but that tends to strip them of one critical component we had growing up ....experience, and real world knowledge IE Wisdom

Kids today, are well aware of the dangers of the internet, but they still fall victim to it why?, because they are kids, though they are smarter then we were at their age, they still make stupid choices, from time to time.

That first hint of someone who may be interested in you when you are young, especially if they were attractive, is the same for them, that thrill when you or your friends, get their license, that nervousness of peer pressure to try that first, sip of alcohol, or drugs still exists... its part of growing up in this country (most actually).

But you have to remember, as good as we are as teachers, parents, protectors etc , predators, especially this type are experts in identifying vulnerabilities...its literally all they do.

They talk like them, if they don't they'll try to look like them, they'll have similar interests,or claim to, they know the buzz words, they know how kids talk, how they act, where they go what they do , they eventually glom onto whatever personal issues or problems the victim is having, they'll comfort them and even worse, they'll relate, it becomes, "us" , "were alike" , they may make them laugh, theyll be the shoulder to cry on ,they may ply them with gifts or money, they'll gain their confidence, this is all part of the grooming process.

Like any criminal they start with small, its a small request, then they become more and more, until they get what they want.

And as unbelievable as this sounds, nowadays, there are underage people out there who know of this and willingly trade pictures of themselves, sometimes personal items, for money, which keeps the wheel spinning, so theres that disgusting side of the coin as well.

The fact that the male model used, wasn't identified immediately is actually of little consequence, he was a model, he has pictures, out on the web, as do millions of people , its a bit of an odd coincidence, that hes now a police officer, but that only bolsters the case, against, KAK
 

Kell1

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KELL1 I read every one of you make at least 3 times! You are smart, wise and have expertise in a field I could never endeavor to undertake. I recently "cut ties" with a friend of more than 25+ years because her son is a convicted pedophile. (Repeat offender...and his threats were escalating.) Every time he was arrested, she would claim he was being railroaded, set-up, people were jealous of their lifestyle, status etc. I bet she paid over a quarter of a million dollars (if not more) in legal fees over the years. And, just as you stated, he would move to another place/town after each time he was caught. I'll be very old or dead before he ever leaves prison this time. Interestingly, he fled to Las Vegas and was captured there.
If TK cut ties because he doesn't want to be associated with his son's crimes, then good for him! The best line I ever read in a book: Loyalty to a condemned man must be greatly questioned. KAK did speak of wanting to leave town before his father woke up. I wonder what he didn't want Dad to know?
BTW: amazing link

Labrador Retriever Trained to Sniff Out Electronics Finds Hidden Evidence in Pedophilia Case​

Ill never understand some parental motives, i swear ive been baffled more by relatives of offenders over the years than the offenders themselves.

I mean what do you do when your child has already demonstrated, a fascination with violence, and firearms , been in and out of mental healthcare, declared he wanted to kill people , asked for a gun which you caved and bought him a target pistol, to which he was then suspended for bringing to school, once that was confiscated, and relentlessly badgers and threatens you to get another more powerful gun with larger magazine capacity?

And you do

Thats exactly what William Kinkel did

Most would've had the kid in an institution, but thats the story of Kip Kinkel who then murdered William, and his wife, wen to this school and killed and 2 others wounding another 25

The families though baffling, often give you a HUGE piece of the puzzle, many a "a Ha" has been gleaned, after speaking with thfamilies, of offenders

Investigator : "Elanor,,,Your son just confessed to over 30 unsolved homicides..."
Elanor: "Well...ok so who wants pie?"

-Elanor Cowell mother of Ted Bundy
 

Kudzuu

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RSBM for focus:

I went to Google to see if there was a supporting MSM article (or anything really besides reddit) that I could find because that comment you made is quite bold. It’s not that I don’t believe you, as you are a verified LE official, but I wholeheartedly feel that when someone (anyone here on WS, but especially a verified LEO) makes such a brazen statement without a valid, according to WS rules, supporting link, I would like to see it with my own eyes.

I think that sometimes when someone here on WS is a verified person and makes a statement such as yours, the readers may take what the verified person has said as 100% truth. But in the off chance the statement is untrue and/or a partial truth, or even if the statement is actually the truth, but it cannot be supported, because perhaps it has been said in confidentiality or is classified information, then the readers may start speculating, saying something like they read on a forum that is known for enforcing their rules, a verified LEO said XYZ, so it must be the truth! And then a whole bunch of additional speculation and rumors start flying around and everything becomes more muddled than it already is.

And IMHO I strongly think, feel and believe that this potential disaster (that may happen or may be happening as we speak because a lot can happen in 13 hours with gossiping fools running all around in places like FB groups, Reddit, via text, etc. ) is the last thing anyone who actually wants to see justice served for these little girls horrific murders, not to mention us, who want to see the arrests, prosecution(s) and punishment to be served (in the fullest extent and degree possible), to their murderer, and/or anyone who may be directly/indirectly involved.
With that being said I have yet to find a supportive, credible article or link.

I did however come across an article regarding CSAM, pedophiles, and how trained K-9’s sniff out a specific chemical that help to track down pedophiles. This chemical is coated on all electronic devices — from thumbnails to SD cards.

And I wonder if this tactic has been deployed (employed?) with KAK and/or any other persons that he has had contact with, and anyone else that have had contact with all of those other people, and so on.

Here’s the link to the news article that I referenced, if anyone wants to read it: See how K-9s sniff out a telltale chemical to help track down pedophiles


(Always MOO. IMHO. IMHAspieO. YMMV. JMVHO.)
I recall reading that statement but I don't remember where. If I run across it I'll post it.
 

Charlot123

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(respectfully snipped for brevity) And as unbelievable as this sounds, nowadays, there are underage people out there who know of this and willingly trade pictures of themselves, sometimes personal items, for money, which keeps the wheel spinning, so theres that disgusting side of the coin as well.
The fact that the male model used, wasn't identified immediately is actually of little consequence, he was a model, he has pictures, out on the web, as do millions of people , its a bit of an odd coincidence, that hes now a police officer, but that only bolsters the case, against, KAK
“Underage” is the word. Also, one wonders how many kids who are involved in it were abused, sexually or physically, at home, and now this behavior is the only known to them way of control.

As to the model, it is serious, and has nothing to do with him being a cop. (But everything to do with him being a father). Once the story about the photos of the young man being potentially used to lure the girls out, and the girls later being killed, is published, he, this man, might be stalked, too. He is a regular citizen, he has not done anything wrong, he should have been warned. Luckily for ISP, the young policeman seems to have the personality fit for the model, easygoing and doesn’t get stuck on these things, or it so seems.
 

Charlot123

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The real owner of the anthony_shots account was KAK, not the Alaskan policeman.
Exactly for this reason. His photos are everywhere, and he is a fringe victim of the story.

(To everyone). Are there any laws against using other people’s photos, and isn’t it equivalent to identity theft? It should be serious.
 

Kell1

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“Underage” is the word. Also, one wonders how many kids who are involved in it were abused, sexually or physically, at home, and now this behavior is the only known to them way of control.

As to the model, it is serious, and has nothing to do with him being a cop. (But everything to do with him being a father). Once the story about the photos of the young man being potentially used to lure the girls out, and the girls later being killed, is published, he, this man, might be stalked, too. He is a regular citizen, he has not done anything wrong, he should have been warned. Luckily for ISP, the young policeman seems to have the personality fit for the model, easygoing and doesn’t get stuck on these things, or it so seems.
Youre assuming he was never told, id doubt seriously that when they found out who the person in those pictures was he was at least contacted.

You assume a risk with anything you post, especially pictures on the internet.

AS for the kids involved in trading CSM, id say the number who were abused, is actually on the lower side .

Kids are just having sex younger now, I was assigned to work our youth detention center for years, I used to hear these kids, who were incarcerated, talk about sex like truck drivers, boys and girls, no filter , it was kind of embarrassing to hear actually. Id say the majority were not sexually abused, most weren't even neglected.

My friends daughter for example, she started trading "lewds" (sexual but non explicit) images of herself when she was just 13, we have no idea how it started, she refused to tell anyone, but she denied ever having been abused, .....he found out when he found lingerie hidden in a closet, she said she bought it herself, but he couldn't remember her ever asking for money or even going anywhere where she could purchase items like that, and he saw transactions sent to her bank account , but he could never prove what they were for.

We talked about it told him could get worse, and eventually it did, she began not only trading sexually explicit videos and images of herself, he found sex toys , and we suspect she traveled on more than one occasion to meet an adult for sex (and drugs).

As luck would have it once the DA got word, the adult male died of sepsis before we could ever have him investigated.

This was all by age 15, now ill admit , I feel were dealing with traces, of histrionic personality disorder, with this particular individual, but its not much different than what i would hear kids say back when i was in uniform at the youth detention center.

This is s seemingly normal kid, dealt with anorexia for awhile, though she had few friends, she struggled with any type of relationship.

Now theres a lot more to her story, but you can kinda get the idea, kids today are born into the data age, they know whats out there, and even with the warnings of whats out there they still venture into dark areas

They don't need to have the birds and bees talk anymore, they can open a private browsing session, and look at all the sexually explicit material of any variety then can handle, right on their phone if they want .

They can communicate with whomever they want they can get whatever they want, and be whomever they want.

Its scary but its the reality we live in in this age of limitless information
 

Kell1

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in ANY investigation, keep as tightly to the evidence as you can in ANY case, dont wildly speculate, but let the evidence guide you.

Remember that the evidence is all you have to directly link a crime to an individual.

Never wildly speculate, use data from those who have done the research, listen to hose who may have actually done the work , apply the numbers, and if I can impart anything to burgeoning sleuths, ..

Learn to listen to those who have been involved, and listen to learn from those same people
 
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rainwaterstill

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I’ve been wondering for quite some time if the FBI has strongly suggested that the local and/or state LE keep their evidence (or lack there of…¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) close to the vest, OR if it’s the local and/or state LE preference to keep everything under wraps?!??

(Always MOO. IMHO. IMHAspieO. YMMV. JMVHO.)
I would much rather have LE take their time and build a rock-solid, absolutely slam-dunk case that they can hand to the prosecution team, leaving no chance whatsoever for a defense attorney to get the accused off on technicalities or for a defense attorney to create "reasonable doubt" in the minds of a jury.
 

Peppery

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The fact that the male model used, wasn't identified immediately is actually of little consequence, he was a model, he has pictures, out on the web, as do millions of people , its a bit of an odd coincidence, that hes now a police officer, but that only bolsters the case, against, KAK
RSBM

Respectfully I disagree. Just because he’s a “model” and has public photos on the web and is now a police officer, doesn’t mean LE knew he wasn’t involved at first. Due diligence says LE should investigate the original owner of the photos for any type of connection to the murders or CSAM and usually investigations involve interviews (I think).
 

stattlich1

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I narrow this case down to these possibilities.

1. LE doesn't know who the killer is.

2. LE does know, but can't prove it in a court of law.

3. LE does know, but other investigative avenues are contingent upon not bringing this particular case to court at this time.

I go back and forth between all three.

I suspect few will agree, and LE would deny based on the literal definition thereof, but this case seems mighty chilly to me.
 

sandy_80

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I don’t have a link but I believe that male model’s photo was one of the most “stolen” photos. I guess meaning, a lot of people were using it worldwide. It’s possible that it didn’t take very long for investigators to find this out.
eh.. they would know the location of that account almost instantly?..whats the use of all these agencies then
I still see this to be completely irrelevant to the case...
I See bg as a dot that keeps getting smaller and smaller.. he can be anywhere now.. he might have moved to mexico or elsewhere ..there is so much that bothers me about this investigation .. i wonder how many mistakes led here or if its just a case thats very hard in the first instance
 

AC4RD

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(To everyone). Are there any laws against using other people’s photos, and isn’t it equivalent to identity theft? It should be serious.
The creator of a photograph, in the USA, owns the copyright to that photo (with some exceptions for commercial work-for-hire). Your photo of your pet llama that you put on your website, is protected under US copyright law.

That means exactly nothing, though. Anyone can steal a photo that's publically available, and use it, and your only recourse (that I'm aware of) is to file suit for copyright infringement. Which is nearly impossible for the vast majority of people in the overwhelming majority of cases. Back when I had a photography website, I had several photos stolen by others; even had one published in a student publication in Holland. (The Dutch woman said, "Oh, it was your photo? It's very good!" :) So much for US copyright laws.) :)

The policeman in Alaska had his photos stolen and used without permission, certainly. I'm guessing at this: The identity theft may be a slightly different issue; one of the things KAK was arrested for was "synthetic identity deception," which sounds like creating (not stealing) an identity for improper or illegal use.

It appears to me--and I'm not a lawyer--that stealing the photos of Officer Alaska is different from falsely assuming his identity. I'm not aware of any criminal laws against copyright infringement (as represented by stealing photos from the web), though it does open the photo thief to a lawsuit.
 

Charlot123

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Ill never understand some parental motives, i swear ive been baffled more by relatives of offenders over the years than the offenders themselves.

I mean what do you do when your child has already demonstrated, a fascination with violence, and firearms , been in and out of mental healthcare, declared he wanted to kill people , asked for a gun which you caved and bought him a target pistol, to which he was then suspended for bringing to school, once that was confiscated, and relentlessly badgers and threatens you to get another more powerful gun with larger magazine capacity?

And you do

Thats exactly what William Kinkel did

Most would've had the kid in an institution, but thats the story of Kip Kinkel who then murdered William, and his wife, wen to this school and killed and 2 others wounding another 25

The families though baffling, often give you a HUGE piece of the puzzle, many a "a Ha" has been gleaned, after speaking with thfamilies, of offenders

Investigator : "Elanor,,,Your son just confessed to over 30 unsolved homicides..."
Elanor: "Well...ok so who wants pie?"

-Elanor Cowell mother of Ted Bundy

And what about parents who, having chronically suicidal kids at home, refuse to move their guns, even temporarily, out of the house? “I have biometric safe”. Any safe can potentially be opened, sometimes not for a gun, for a router. I am always wondering, how come we have defensive driving classes, including theoretical and practical part, and it takes some time and effort to get a driving license? At least when you finish, you have an idea about cars. Why not similar classes for future gun owners? I think there should be serious training for young people interested in gun ownership, better by retired professionals, not by parents.
The creator of a photograph, in the USA, owns the copyright to that photo (with some exceptions for commercial work-for-hire). Your photo of your pet llama that you put on your website, is protected under US copyright law.

That means exactly nothing, though. Anyone can steal a photo that's publically available, and use it, and your only recourse (that I'm aware of) is to file suit for copyright infringement. Which is nearly impossible for the vast majority of people in the overwhelming majority of cases. Back when I had a photography website, I had several photos stolen by others; even had one published in a student publication in Holland. (The Dutch woman said, "Oh, it was your photo? It's very good!" :) So much for US copyright laws.) :)

The policeman in Alaska had his photos stolen and used without permission, certainly. I'm guessing at this: The identity theft may be a slightly different issue; one of the things KAK was arrested for was "synthetic identity deception," which sounds like creating (not stealing) an identity for improper or illegal use.

It appears to me--and I'm not a lawyer--that stealing the photos of Officer Alaska is different from falsely assuming his identity. I'm not aware of any criminal laws against copyright infringement (as represented by stealing photos from the web), though it does open the photo thief to a lawsuit.

Here: if you have a photo site, unless you cover your photos with your logo, head-to-toe, so that no one can physically enjoy your artistic work, people are not liable as long as they don’t use the photos for commercial purposes. Say, I saw your photos of ancient statues, liked them, reposted on my FB. Technically, it would be nice if I quoted the source, to advertise your work. But even if I don’t, but use them for “knowledge” (“goddess Athena…”), it is considered good.

But: KAK monetized the image of young Sexy Cop, big time, he made a lot on it. I forgot who deals with cybercrime, FBI, CIA, Interpol. Maybe all. It could be a huge case, if LE wants to move and do something.

P.S. I once moderated a page on FB, antiquity, 3d prints of statues. I wrote to museums to get some photos. Louvre made me pay for them, British Museum shared for free and even thanked. ))
 

Charlot123

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I narrow this case down to these possibilities.

1. LE doesn't know who the killer is.

2. LE does know, but can't prove it in a court of law.

3. LE does know, but other investigative avenues are contingent upon not bringing this particular case to court at this time.

I go back and forth between all three.

I suspect few will agree, and LE would deny based on the literal definition thereof, but this case seems mighty chilly to me.

1 or 3. And IMHO, 1 is worse than 3. In case 3, at least the person “knows they know”, and might be prevented by fear. Case 1, totally unknown person.
 
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