Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

TL4S

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Well sunshineray, since you brought it up. I went down the rabbit hole of lesser known "social websites" KAK had used in the past. In one of them was a slogan? or theme? (not sure what you call those inspirational quotes) and he had put it on his page. It was a coach/basketball and (paraphrasing) "If you are ever going to score any points in life, you have to take the shot." I thought it was interesting because KAK didn't seem like the type who would be into posting "sports cliches." He found it significant enough to have on his cover page. I hesitated in sharing this a long time ago, because I had some really bad experiences. Don't ask me to find it again. Yahoo....I found it!!
You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. - Michael Scott
PS At one point because of "Anthony" and "shots" I ended up on a website about Dr. Anthony F and Covid vaccines, go figure. As I have said before I sometimes end up in the darnedest places with my trusty-crusty assistant Ms. Google. IYKWIM Oh and the sport reference turns out to be hockey not basketball, oh geez. How many times can I edit one post, duh.
The fact that KAK chose to quote Michael Scott, rather than Wayne Gretzky, is maybe more telling than the actual quote itself. IMO.

I know the episode that quote came from, where Michael Scott tries to strike out and run his own paper company. I think KAK identifies with the lovable loser type character, who is secretly more capable than he appears to others. Everything KAK did online was an attempt to advertise the reputation he wanted to have.

It is a rather strange coincidence about the "shots" stuff (including it being a neighbor's last name), but the fact that his later phone had "Kline Photography" as its name makes the "shots" referring to photos a more likely scenario, imo. But it's truly anyone's guess!!
 

TTF14

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I wonder if they checked all the cable companies wifi's in the area? Aren't there ways to "borrow" wifi? Was that mentioned in the Kline case, in that redacted LE interview maybe? I ask about that because the anthony_shots account seems to have borrowed the neighbor last name...minus one letter.

1:15 time stamp

Page 1 of the probable cause affidavit says it was a secured network. I mean, that's according to the pedophile.

 
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IQuestion

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The fact that KAK chose to quote Michael Scott, rather than Wayne Gretzky, is maybe more telling than the actual quote itself. IMO.

I know the episode that quote came from, where Michael Scott tries to strike out and run his own paper company. I think KAK identifies with the lovable loser type character, who is secretly more capable than he appears to others. Everything KAK did online was an attempt to advertise the reputation he wanted to have.

It is a rather strange coincidence about the "shots" stuff (including it being a neighbor's last name), but the fact that his later phone had "Kline Photography" as its name makes the "shots" referring to photos a more likely scenario, imo. But it's truly anyone's guess!!
TL45 I don't watch much TV and never knew about Michael Scott or The Office. And I agree with your entire post...every word except "lovable." So am leaving that one word out. And shots=photos works, too.
" KAK identifies with the loser type character, who is secretly more capable than he appears to others."
 
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ChuckInHouston

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KK is a deviant. There is nothing lovable about him. He is a predator. He is not BG, but IMO, he knows, or was in contact with BG. Maybe not in person, but on line. I believe he was sharing the AS acct with his father, and possibly someone else.
We know he was sharing information with other predators. It is also my opinion that there is more than one perp. Mainly because even if he had them at gunpoint, it would have been difficult to get them across the creek and up that bank without them taking off, or one taking off as he was attacking the other. Before anyone tares my head off, i have read the commentary about one protecting the other, etc. That is a wonderful speculation because we all want the victim to be a hero. That unfortunately may not be the reality and when faced with the event head on, I would venture someone of that age would be much more likely to run, than fight. Again, only my humble opinion.
 

IQuestion

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KK is a deviant. There is nothing lovable about him. He is a predator. He is not BG, but IMO, he knows, or was in contact with BG. Maybe not in person, but on line. I believe he was sharing the AS acct with his father, and possibly someone else.
We know he was sharing information with other predators. It is also my opinion that there is more than one perp. Mainly because even if he had them at gunpoint, it would have been difficult to get them across the creek and up that bank without them taking off, or one taking off as he was attacking the other. Before anyone tares my head off, i have read the commentary about one protecting the other, etc. That is a wonderful speculation because we all want the victim to be a hero. That unfortunately may not be the reality and when faced with the event head on, I would venture someone of that age would be much more likely to run, than fight. Again, only my humble opinion.
CHUCKHOUSTON If I could, would give you 5 thumbs up and lots of bell ringing for your post!!
Similarly a WS story on two young female backpackers in Salt Creek, Australia who said the one thing they did to survive was to run in two different directions. Ironically despite having odd feelings about the man they met, thought travelling together kept them safer. The backpackers were older, educated, experienced travelers and still ignored their initial instincts.
The sweet young girls from Delphi, not even out of middle school (breaks my heart)... didn't have enough life experiences to make those split second decisions.
ps.. This is a video of their fateful decision..
 

HistoryNut

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KK is a deviant. There is nothing lovable about him. He is a predator. He is not BG, but IMO, he knows, or was in contact with BG. Maybe not in person, but on line. I believe he was sharing the AS acct with his father, and possibly someone else.
We know he was sharing information with other predators. It is also my opinion that there is more than one perp. Mainly because even if he had them at gunpoint, it would have been difficult to get them across the creek and up that bank without them taking off, or one taking off as he was attacking the other. Before anyone tares my head off, i have read the commentary about one protecting the other, etc. That is a wonderful speculation because we all want the victim to be a hero. That unfortunately may not be the reality and when faced with the event head on, I would venture someone of that age would be much more likely to run, than fight. Again, only my humble opinion.
I agree that KK may not be BG, but I believe he knows who did it. I also agree there were two killers because it would have been too difficult for one person, even with a weapon, to prevent them from running away, and IMO, if the girls had a chance to run, they would have done so.
 

Toxicpaw

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I agree that KK may not be BG, but I believe he knows who did it. I also agree there were two killers because it would have been too difficult for one person, even with a weapon, to prevent them from running away, and IMO, if the girls had a chance to run, they would have done so.
That's a good point; Since there aren't many details about how the girls died, it's hard to speculate imo. I know in most cases, investigators are able to tell if there were two killers or just one. So much info is being withheld so it might be possible.

I'm convinced there was only one killer based on what we DO know. Especially based on the clip where one of the girls says "a man has been following us." I'm sure the police tracked the girls' movements using their phones, I can't help but wonder if they did try to run or if they made their way over to where their remains were found to try to get away. A grown man can easily catch up to two little girls and overpower them either physically or mentally. Maybe he scared them into staying put
 

Ravenmoon

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IMO KAK knows who did it and if he is not responsible, he had a hand in it.

Why is this so difficult to prove when it appears as though(almost) everything is laid out for an arrest?

I honestly believe that it is the alibi that the grandparents have given.
Scariest thing about that alibi?
Grandpa has since passed, Grandma probably has been manipulated into holding the story up.
Unless there is a piece of evidence that is found , a change in grandma, or a confession, I am afraid this case has the potential to go unpunished.

On the other hand, there has been an awful LOT of quiet concerning KAK and his family member/roommate. So, I am choosing to believe that these 2 disturbed individuals have turned against each other in an effort to save their own skin.
I pray this is the correct scenario.
It has been TOO long and the families deserve justice.

JMO
Murder Sheet Kegan Kline Redacted Statement.pdf
 
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HistoryNut

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That's a good point; Since there aren't many details about how the girls died, it's hard to speculate imo. I know in most cases, investigators are able to tell if there were two killers or just one. So much info is being withheld so it might be possible.

I'm convinced there was only one killer based on what we DO know. Especially based on the clip where one of the girls says "a man has been following us." I'm sure the police tracked the girls' movements using their phones, I can't help but wonder if they did try to run or if they made their way over to where their remains were found to try to get away. A grown man can easily catch up to two little girls and overpower them either physically or mentally. Maybe he scared them into staying put

I’m sure they were terrified, but I don’t think the killer(s) scared them into staying put. There was too much blood which leads me to believe that they were incapacitated, as horrible as that sounds.
 

scruffydog

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@JnRyan

In the post by cujenn81

"Robert Ives told SOC that he personally submitted several subpoenas to obtain all cell phone records from phones within a five mile radius of the trails to determine who was in the area that day. All owners of cell phones that pinged in the area of the bridge were contacted regarding their activities and asked about what they had seen. Investigators paid special attention to phone records of anyone who was new to the area or had spent several hours in the area during the time in question."
I just really feel, that stating that RL's phone pinged near the scene, is completely ridiculous and unfair. seeing as he lived right there!!!!!!!
 

ChuckInHouston

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The most puzzling thing about this whole case to me is the switch on the sketch so late in the game. 1st of all we have the video of BG. IMO BG looks nothing like second sketch. I know there are few details, but at a glance, I think most of us can see that second sketch is not BG. BG may be younger, but not young. Just by his movements and dress I would not make him for less that 30+ and not more than 45-. He, to the best of my ability to make out was wearing something resembling work shows or boots. Jeans that someone older that 20 would wear. Still not sure on the hat, as I have seen so many manipulations of the BG at this point and none of them resemble the original, where at first glance I do not see a hat, but brownish red hair that parts in the middle. In other stills, it just looks like a hoodie to me. The shirt sticking out from under the jacket. Hands in pockets and high, like the top of jeans were tight. Thumbs out. Someone recognizes this guy. No doubt LE has received countless tips, of everyone from uncle joe, to my strange neighbor. I think the key is the original video and viewing it at face value. Someone also knows if the person they suspect was familiar with the trails and should have long ago put two and two together. The lack of concern from LE on rather of not this person is a danger leads me to believe that either early on they thought they had the right suspect in mind, or they thought motive was something other than SA. Personally I have seen too many of these cases to believe anything else. The most likely motive for this action is SA. I don't buy in to any of the gossip about drugs, or revenge, and so fourth. It just doesn't wash. I also thing it is more likely that BG came in from the direction the girls were dropped off, or somewhere near there as they had mentioned being followed prior the the photos. The 6 or 7 min form the pic of Abby, and no one behind her, and the vid of BG leads me to believe they were trucking across that bridge possibly because this guy was already following them. I would have started with cameras leading to that road and driver where they were dropped off.
 

helpfulcharlie

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I wonder if they checked all the cable companies wifi's in the area? Aren't there ways to "borrow" wifi? Was that mentioned in the Kline case, in that redacted LE interview maybe? I ask about that because the anthony_shots account seems to have borrowed the neighbor last name...minus one letter.

1:15 time stamp


It's reasonably trivial to obtain the passwords to "secured wifi networks" if the password is insufficiently complex. As an experiment, I set up a wireless device to passively capture handshakes in my area. In two days, I captured 28 handshakes from surrounding wifi devices. Running that set of handshakes through a password recovery tool with a very large wordlist resulted in discovering 7 wifi passwords from that batch.

This involved a $100 wireless device, a reasonably high-end gaming GPU, and time and motivation.

I've been trying to tell people to do better at securing their wifi -- longer and stronger passwords. I have a feeling that this type of activity will happen more and more frequently as criminals discover that it's far easier to have their illegal activities traced to someone else's house instead of their own.
 

StarryStarryNight

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It's reasonably trivial to obtain the passwords to "secured wifi networks" if the password is insufficiently complex. As an experiment, I set up a wireless device to passively capture handshakes in my area. In two days, I captured 28 handshakes from surrounding wifi devices. Running that set of handshakes through a password recovery tool with a very large wordlist resulted in discovering 7 wifi passwords from that batch.

This involved a $100 wireless device, a reasonably high-end gaming GPU, and time and motivation.

I've been trying to tell people to do better at securing their wifi -- longer and stronger passwords. I have a feeling that this type of activity will happen more and more frequently as criminals discover that it's far easier to have their illegal activities traced to someone else's house instead of their own.

This is great information but I am a little confused by the possibility KAK’s wi-fi was highjacked by someone outside their house. At least that’s what I think we are talking about here.
In KAK’s police interview when KAK says that his friend sometimes uses his phone, LE counters with that these online conversations with young girls go on for hours and sometimes days, meaning it would have to be someone living in the house having those conversations to be hanging around that long.
So I would think the same logic would apply to someone highjacking their wi-fi, so I think that would omit someone parking outside their house to do this. They would have to sit out there a long time.
All that being said, a neighbor, close enough to get the signal and can sit for long periods of time, might could pull that off I guess.
Now if I have totally mixed up what this whole discussion is and how it relates to this case…then just look away and forget I wrote any of this.
 

Justice101

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My opinion only!!!:

I think when the girls got to the dirt road they probably realized this was a very bad situation and he was not a real policeman, etc.....they made eye contact with one another and then one of the girls bolted and made a break for it. That one led the way across the creek where the water was low from that sand bar was located. It was a very good plan.

However, BG probably caught the slowest one of them either in the creek itself or soon thereafter when the last one reached that extremely steep and muddy embankment on the other side. Once he caught one of them, that would have stopped the other from running and sealed both of their fates. The "arguing" that was supposedly heard below the bridge was probably BG yelling to one of the girls to come back that her friend was caught. He probably zip tied them at that point.

I personally don't think BG planned to take them across the creek at all. There were other places he could take them on that south side of the creek further on where he could do what he wanted to do. There were lots of secluded places.

I just get angrier and angrier at BG when I think of what he put those two sweet girls through before murdering them in cold blood.
 

ChuckInHouston

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However, BG probably caught the slowest one of them either in the creek itself or soon thereafter when the last one reached that extremely steep and muddy embankment on the other side. Once he caught one of them, that would have stopped the other from running and sealed both of their fates. The "arguing" that was supposedly heard below the bridge was probably BG yelling to one of the girls to come back that her friend was caught. He probably zip tied them at that point.
SBM. Who heard the arguing below the bridge?
 

ChuckInHouston

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However, BG probably caught the slowest one of them either in the creek itself or soon thereafter when the last one reached that extremely steep and muddy embankment on the other side. Once he caught one of them, that would have stopped the other from running and sealed both of their fates. The "arguing" that was supposedly heard below the bridge was probably BG yelling to one of the girls to come back that her friend was caught. He probably zip tied them at that point.
SBM. Who heard the arguing below the bridge?
 

ChuckInHouston

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However, BG probably caught the slowest one of them either in the creek itself or soon thereafter when the last one reached that extremely steep and muddy embankment on the other side. Once he caught one of them, that would have stopped the other from running and sealed both of their fates. The "arguing" that was supposedly heard below the bridge was probably BG yelling to one of the girls to come back that her friend was caught. He probably zip tied them at that point.
SBM. Who heard the arguing below the bridge?
 

Schatz

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This is great information but I am a little confused by the possibility KAK’s wi-fi was highjacked by someone outside their house. At least that’s what I think we are talking about here.
In KAK’s police interview when KAK says that his friend sometimes uses his phone, LE counters with that these online conversations with young girls go on for hours and sometimes days, meaning it would have to be someone living in the house having those conversations to be hanging around that long.
So I would think the same logic would apply to someone highjacking their wi-fi, so I think that would omit someone parking outside their house to do this. They would have to sit out there a long time.
All that being said, a neighbor, close enough to get the signal and can sit for long periods of time, might could pull that off I guess.
Now if I have totally mixed up what this whole discussion is and how it relates to this case…then just look away and forget I wrote any of this.

Any place I’ve ever been to, used the Wi-Fi and saved the password, and revisit my phone automatically connects to the WiFi. When I drop my kid off at her dad’s in a different town where I get no cell signal, my phone connects to their WiFi as soon as I pull into the driveway. If KAK’s friend had ever used the WiFi, he could easily connect again from outside the walls of the house unless the Klines changed their password regularly, which I would argue most people do not.
 
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