(I went to respond to somebody’s post and started googling and went to the media thread and this particular podcast that was transcribed by cujenn81 caught my eye and I wanted to share it with y’all, especially to you who may have not read it or have forgotten what was said, etc… My own comments/opinions are written in parentheses. Some words or phrases will be folded by me personally for reference.)
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION
I went to the media thread to review some things and I have copied and pasted only some of the things said at the
Transcribed by cujenn81, post #906 on 2/17/21
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BEST CASE WORST CASE SCENARIO: THE DELPHI MURDERS (Episode 123)
PART 1 – Released April 25, 2019
Best Case Worst Case is a podcast hosted by former federal prosecutor
Francey Hakes and Retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent & Profiler
Jim Clemente. For this particular discussion, they invited two additional retired FBI Special Agents to join them,
Maureen O’Connell and
Bobby Chacon.
Hakes
Jim, I want to ask you first of all, a question we always get on social media. You’ve got someone who has obviously killed and you don’t know if they were sexually assaulted. What’s the motivation for the murder? Uh, because the police have not released it. But some person has taken the life of two teenage girls. What motivates someone like that? How can anyone kill teenage girls like that?
Clemente
Well, unfortunately, if you’re looking at the motivations for these, the vast majority of them are sexual in nature. And, unfortunately, that’s, you know, a sad reality. That’s probably the most likely.
The other motivations in child abduction ho
micides are greed, somebody getting in the way of, uh, a relationship, and, um –
Chacon
Like Chris Watts when he killed those – his two daughters.
Clemente
Yes.
Chacon
If – I believe that’s right. That was – that was getting in the way of his relationship.
(
After reading this tweenthis convo between Clemente & Chacon, I’m now left wondering if someone that pertains to this specific case of Abby and Libby, perhaps related to somebody else got jealous and or possessive, thinking that the other may have been getting in the way of their relationship with Libby…just a thought)
Clemente
But the fact that
Libby took the pictures tells me that she was fairly certain that something bad was happening.
….
(
So does this mean that there are pictures in addition to the video and audio??)….
O’Connell
She knew for sure.
And then they did an audio, as well. And going back, uh, to piggyback on what you said. We saw an initial grainy photograph back in 2017 when these girls were abducted and murdered.
And in that photography, I remember thinking that this guy was a very heavyset person. (
Could this wording be a possible tell/slip, like O’Connell was referring to KAK, because they knew in 2017 that KAK was a potential suspect, but at that time or rather at the time of this podcast that info had not been released to us, the general public) But the significance of the
video they put out yesterday, shows a
person – if you look at his legs and the movement – his legs look rather thin. (
Again this could be a possible reference/L that they knew about KAK, and in my humble opinion of course some of them if not all of them would have privy to LE knowledge/evidence, especially Jim Clemente!) That there is a lot of stuff shoved into his jacket and he also has a fanny pack on. Um, and you can see the gape caused by this, um –
Clemente
Bulk.
O’Connell
Bulk, exactly. Between the, uh, between the buttons. So, uh, he could have had what could be described as like a kill kit or something of that nature in there. Or a gun or something.
Clemente
Yeah, it could be. You know, the fact is that he was clearly kind of trying to disguise himself – hide his identity and probably hide whatever he used to threaten them. And it was very effective.
Chacon
And
Libby’s grandfather is
quite sure that
she took those pictures and that audio – or that video and that audio – (
again is that a slip? Because what I am reading thus far is that not only is there a video and audio which we already know about, there are also pictures that we don’t know about yet) because she thought there was something wrong with him. I think he even said like, “I think she was probably gonna come back home and tell me – Look, I saw this strange man hanging out at the park.”
….(Hakes, Chacon & Clemente go on to talk about the video that Libby took. The why’s & more. After a little back-and-forth between the three, Clemente goes on to say, see below. And for reference you can click the link to go read the entire thing yourself.)
Clemente
Situational awareness is obviously something that Libby exhibited here. She clearly understood that this guy was not there for good reasons. That he had nefarious intent. And, thankfully, because of that (
video, audio, etc.)
we have some leads in this case.
Otherwise, we’d have almost nothing.
…..
Hakes (goes on to say): “when police originally released some of the video, some of the audio, and the sketch two years ago, they said –
“There was MORE evidence relating to the suspect on the phone, but we’re not going to release it in order to avoid compromising a future trial.”
Chacon
Sure. My default position was always don’t release anything in my investigation unless it aids the investigation. I have no obligation to anyone outside the investigation. My obligation is to track down the perpetrator of the crime in a way that’s going to allow someone like yourself to prosecute the person successfully.
There IS a certain obligation to the family. We have special victim witness people that handle that stuff. But as far as the evidence in the case, I even have to always be careful what you tell the family. Sometimes that comes off as looking insensitive. …. If they’re withholding information, it has everything to do with the validity of this investigation, and protecting the – the investigation and capturing the perpetrator. It has nothing to do with wanting to withhold from the family. (
I am completely guilty and judgments or rather judging LE about keeping their evidence private and/or not telling us the full truth however I don’t like partial truths or even lies but hey that’s just me, a big fat nobody)
Clemente
The family doesn’t WANT to know information that will end up hurting the prosecution down the road. So, they typically understand.
Of course, if the investigation goes on unsolved for years and decades, the family can get very frustrated. But still, if in the end their goal is to actually get a suspect arrested, and have a successful prosecution, and get justice for their family member or their loved one, well then in the end, the sacrifice they have to make in not knowing the details, that’s a very worthy sacrifice.
O’Connell
Although – although we don’t want to admit it,
oftentimes the big leaks from investigations DO come from the family members because they ARE so emotional. And, rightfully so.
So, we don’t tell them everything because we don’t want them sharing that information with other people.
….
Clemente
Right. And here’s the thing, Francey. You know, to answer people who think “why now – why are they releasing this now?” Because it may have been the arrest of that one guy who fit that description very well a couple days ago. That may have been them finally ruling him out as the killer. And so, now they have more confidence and it is the perfect time to release this other sketch of this other person that has now become the primary suspect in this case. And from what the cops said, they probably have some other reasons to suspect him as well.
….
O’Connell
We would, I –
I just have the feeling – and this is just a
feeling based on the information that we’ve received so far from the police and that in the presser yesterday –
that, um, they may have been posed or staged. And I – I think, Bobby, you were in LA when we worked that case with that beautiful young victim, Samantha Runyon. And she too was posed. And, that was one time, um, Francey, where I saw a hardened seasoned homicide detective cry.
So, it’s that type of thing. It’s the victimization on top of the victimization, the piling on that these people do for their own personal gratification. So, in a situation like that there’s going to be a lot of evidence. And there’s going to be a lot of evidence that has to be very, very, very carefully collected and then maintained.
….
Clemente
I think he set up his trap and they fell into it. But he needed to get them to a particular place so he could have privacy to do what he wanted to do.
O’Connell
Or, you know, following along on that part of
his, um,
sexual gratification could be
taking them to another place and building a lair where he can do what he’s doing.
But you’re right... he — he,
in moving them, it does say a lot about this person. And everything he did, every move he made, is another signature and these signatures add up.
Hakes
Jim, what does the actual location itself tell you about, uh, you know, sort of the offender and where he might be from? What sort of geographic information can you glean knowing that it’s kind of a local area and that there may have been movement of the bodies and there may be a lair?
Clemente
Well, I think there’s more details to it.
But I think that a number of these, you know, sort of intricacies and nuances tell me that he’s probably from around there. That he spends a significant amount of time there. Whether he grew up there or he landed there from somewhere else, I don’t know. But he’s certainly spent enough time to know that this was a place where little girls who fit his fantasy could come by, you know.
I think he’s the kind of guy who fantasized a great deal about doing this. That this is not something impulsive;
this is something that he planned for. He played it out in his mind over and over again. It didn’t go exactly as he planned but he thought about this. He was compulsive. He played this fantasy in his mind repeatedly, and then, you know, took steps to carry it out. And that whatever that was, in terms of, you know, him preparing a place, uh, preparing a way to threaten and control his intended victim, um, preparing a place where he could, you know, sort of be unseen until the victim came into view – sort of laying his trap or throwing out his net.
I think he showed some level of criminal sophistication that only comes from having done, committed, precursor crimes.
I think he would’ve exhibited peeping behavior. He might have broken into residences to basically be there for, you know, when somebody wasn’t home, and go thru you know underwear drawers and things like that.
Hakes
Your
voyeur kind of crimes.
Clemente
Yes. Well, the peeping is that voyeur side but the other side is more like the excitement, the thrill of being in a place that you’re not supposed to be and looking at people’s intimate things. And he probably did those kinds of things and they are called nuisance crimes.
And it might have been misdemeanors, but I believe he probably has a record like that.
He almost certainly DID it. I don’t know if he got caught at it before.
But the guy has also some level of forensics investigation because he didn’t apparently leave a lot of forensic evidence behind of himself, at least that they’ve reported. So, that tells me that he wasn’t, you know, uneducated on forensics. So, he has some experience. And that may come from his experience as a criminal. That may come from having been arrested before on certain things, so now he knows how to avoid those things.
Hakes
Could it also be beca
use he maybe has not ever been arrested by law enforcement and is secure in the knowledge
that his DNA exists nowhere but inside himself?
Clemente
Well,
I don’t know. I don’t know that –
because he wouldn’t know about investigative genealogy – but that
wouldn’t protect him anymore. But at that point, you know, I don’t think people who protect themselves by not leaving evidence are doing it because they don’t think they can be caught if they leave evidence. It’s that they think they can get caught if they do leave evidence.
(There is more to this podcast that is fully transcribed and the link is above for anyone who is interested in reading the entire thing. I strongly urge you to go back and read not only this article in its entirety but the thread for media in general. Because in my opinion if you read all of this and think about what we know now versus of what we knew then, there was a lot of clues in these podcasts. Perhaps we just didn’t recognize them as clues until now or rather until a few months ago. And/or there may be some of us, like myself, who did not start following this case until 2019, and I haven’t read all of the 100 & something threads, nor all of the media threads as well. Anyway I still suggest that anyone who has not taken a peek at the transcribed info/media that cujenn81 has kindly transcribed for us (thank you so sooooo much cujenn81, this is a wonderful blessing for us or rather at least it is for me. And I really appreciate you taking the time to do this!!). Also note that if you do go back and read it talks about the podcast talks about genealogy more than once. Off to dinner I go. See y’all later. OK so I didn’t post this before I ate dinner. And now that I have eaten dinner I’m extremely exhausted and I’m laying in my bed, but I’m going to read the second of the third episode of this podcast series. TTFN)
