Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

[Boxer]

So they ha

You’re absolutely right, the seizure occurred on Feb 25th. Thank you for setting me straight!

Reading the affidavit again it wasn’t the Iphone 5 that was reset prior to KAK turning it over the LE however various apps were deleted and reinstalled, presumably to erase prior data. It was the Samsung Galaxy that had been factory reset on July 23rd, prior to the search warrant being executed.

does that mean they have all
the communication between that KAK
set up in A_S account?

 

[MistyWaters]

So they ha

does that mean they have all
the communication between that KAK
set up in A_S account?

We don’t know exactly what they have nor the exact date Libby’s phone was reset (week or weekend before, I’m not sure which) nor what records might’ve been recovered from it by Indiana Computer Crimes Against Children Task Force.

But after all this time, if incriminating evidence was found I doubt we’d still be anxiously awaiting for charges to be filed. JMO

 

[Boxer]

Hope
the threads come together eventually.

 

[TL4S]

So they ha

does that mean they have all
the communication between that KAK
set up in A_S account?

Between Feb 25 - Feb 27, 2017, KAK deleted the apps on his iPhone 5 and at the end of the affidavit, the agent says flat out that in deleting those apps, chats and such were destroyed. In the 2020 interview, LE claims the "grooming" stuff was deleted. Whatever was on the Samsung was likely lost when it was reset Feb. 23, 2017. While I think some data was probably retrieved from the devices, I'm guessing KAK's moves to destroy evidence were successful to some degree. And, he has Obstruction of Justice charges that apply to these actions, as well.

 

[TL4S]

This is my pre-coffee question for the day. What if one of the hangups with this case is that a_shots was still communicating with L while she and A were at the bridge, but those communications were based from an IP address in Peru (or the house near KAK's grandparent's where LE said the phone had been later on the 13th)? That places the user of a_shots somewhere other than the CS. A good alibi.

The next question would then be, was the user of a_shots aware of (and/or working with) the killer, and the a_shots communications was their way of covering their tracks?

Random thoughts... It's probably not what happened since KAK was researching IP address stuff in Vegas, which likely shows he hadn't thought this far ahead.

 

[Schatz]

This is my pre-coffee question for the day. What if one of the hangups with this case is that a_shots was still communicating with L while she and A were at the bridge, but those communications were based from an IP address in Peru (or the house near KAK's grandparent's where LE said the phone had been later on the 13th)? That places the user of a_shots somewhere other than the CS. A good alibi.

The next question would then be, was the user of a_shots aware of (and/or working with) the killer, and the a_shots communications was their way of covering their tracks?

Random thoughts... It's probably not what happened since KAK was researching IP address stuff in Vegas, which likely shows he hadn't thought this far ahead.

It’s a valid theory.

 

[IQuestion]

This is my pre-coffee question for the day. What if one of the hangups with this case is that a_shots was still communicating with L while she and A were at the bridge, but those communications were based from an IP address in Peru (or the house near KAK's grandparent's where LE said the phone had been later on the 13th)? That places the user of a_shots somewhere other than the CS. A good alibi.

The next question would then be, was the user of a_shots aware of (and/or working with) the killer, and the a_shots communications was their way of covering their tracks?

Random thoughts... It's probably not what happened since KAK was researching IP address stuff in Vegas, which likely shows he hadn't thought this far ahead.

Bbm "This is my pre-coffee question for the day." Really? How can I possibly think before coffee? As far as I am concerned the need for coffee is historically significant..."Pre Columbian Art means the time before coffee cups were made!!"
TL4S You must have been the kid at summer camp who played the bugle. (LOL, love ya' kiddo)

 

[TL4S]

Bbm "This is my pre-coffee question for the day." Really? How can I possibly think before coffee? As far as I am concerned the need for coffee is historically significant..."Pre Columbian Art means the time before coffee cups were made!!"
TL4S You must have been the kid at summer camp who played the bugle. (LOL, love ya' kiddo)

Nope, I was the kid who woke up the bugle boy. Ha!

 

[M. Kay]

This is my pre-coffee question for the day. What if one of the hangups with this case is that a_shots was still communicating with L while she and A were at the bridge, but those communications were based from an IP address in Peru (or the house near KAK's grandparent's where LE said the phone had been later on the 13th)? That places the user of a_shots somewhere other than the CS. A good alibi.

The next question would then be, was the user of a_shots aware of (and/or working with) the killer, and the a_shots communications was their way of covering their tracks?

Random thoughts... It's probably not what happened since KAK was researching IP address stuff in Vegas, which likely shows he hadn't thought this far ahead.

Somehow this post must fit more closely that piece which we still don't know; it may bring us closer to what the "twist" (mentioned early on) may be. KK "not thinking far ahead": I almost can smile, Bingo. (I keep trying to think farther back, and so rely on this forum.) Just re-read every page of Murder Sheet's revealed interrogation of KK's "thinking". He has an alibi for not murdering per se, yet must know who did. H'e's disturbed, so may crack.

 

[sunshineray]

This is my pre-coffee question for the day. What if one of the hangups with this case is that a_shots was still communicating with L while she and A were at the bridge, but those communications were based from an IP address in Peru (or the house near KAK's grandparent's where LE said the phone had been later on the 13th)? That places the user of a_shots somewhere other than the CS. A good alibi.

The next question would then be, was the user of a_shots aware of (and/or working with) the killer, and the a_shots communications was their way of covering their tracks?

Random thoughts... It's probably not what happened since KAK was researching IP address stuff in Vegas, which likely shows he hadn't thought this far ahead.

IF KAK was visiting his dealer friend on that road in Peru the day the girls were murdered he could have sat outside in a vehicle and communicated on his frien's internet, even unbeknownst to that friend, with the girls and/or another person who was maybe also communicating with girls through the anthony_shots? LE did mention the two different phones logged in that afternoon.

Is that even possible for two people simultaneously to be logged into anthony_shots account?

 

[TL4S]

IF KAK was visiting his dealer friend on that road in Peru the day the girls were murdered he could have sat outside in a vehicle and communicated on his frien's internet, even unbeknownst to that friend, with the girls and/or another person who was maybe also communicating with girls through the anthony_shots? LE did mention the two different phones logged in that afternoon.

Is that even possible for two people simultaneously to be logged into anthony_shots account?

Iirc, the two devices logging in and out was around 8am and originated at the Peru house. But who knows who might have had access to what at the friend's house!

 

[IQuestion]

Just in case one wants to print out and compare the BarMacDon videotaped interview of KAK on/of Dec 9,2021. Here is a link to the actual transcript:

tX Vid Interview by Barbara McDo (1).pdf

Filed: 3/3/2022 3:13 PM Clerk Miami County, Indiana. 1234567009. STATE OF INDIANA. IN THE MIAMI CIRCUIT COURT. ). )ss:. COUNTY OF MIAMI. TERM 2022. ). STATE OF INDIANA VS. 10. ll. CAUSE NO. 52C01-2008-F4—254. KEGAN A. KLINE. 12 13 15. APPEARANCES. M. 14. 20. REPRESENTING THE DEFENDANT. l7 18. V ...

www.docdroid.net

The "lies/or story changes" (depending on whether or not you feeing generous and magnanimous with his new explanations) begin on the 1st page:
23 Q: Where were you on February 13th, 2017?
1 A: I was at my house. They have my G.P.S. locations and everything.
(But on the transcript of Aug 19, 2020 with Det V, KAK says he says he went to his grandparents house with his Dad and then returned home. This information was backed up with audio recorded by two law enforcement officers including an FBI agent.)
Alrighteee!! I just came across something I never read before, or overlooked. on page 4, Line 4:
4 Q: So do you remember umm the night of the 13the, the night that the girls went
5 missing? Do you remember communicating with Kelsey German?
6 A: No I don't.
Shut the front door! That is not a typo folks! Did someone using A_S accounts or KAK himself attempt to communicate with KG? (I was wondering why investigators were asking about 7:45pm on Monday night and what KAK was doing at that time.) KAK actually brings up that exact time, twice in his interview with DetV. Hmmm, is that the time he/they returned to the house and someone attempted to contact KG and act like a concerned citizen at 7:45 that night? Omg, wow. I hate to use this phrase, but, "Hiding in plain sight" seems to be rearing its ugly head again.
No Amber Alert and yet someone using that ISP address attempting to contact KG all the way from Peru, Indiana within hours of them missing? This is certainly sinister IMO.

 

[taylorss]

something doesn’t fit right in the timeline of the Vegas trip… evidence is KAK was raided on 2/25 by LE following up on complaint about peeping-tom incident linked to the a_s account. But also he was “just back” from trip to Vegas…. did he go right from the airport to peeping in windows??

And the peeping-tom incident happened right after the victim had given her address to a_s … as in she gave it to KAK while he was in Vegas? while he was repeatedly googling on the double murder, & then he put on his ski mask and headed out to peep in her window? Confusing how the vegas trip fits in with known facts

Obvs LE has asserted more than one user of the account … but the only other possible user I’ve heard of is TK and he was supposed to be in Vegas too.

Has LE or anyone else reliable ever confirmed that there even really was a trip to Vegas?

If there really was a trip to Vegas & it really included both KAK & TK….. does that mean there was a third participant in the a_s account who was peeping in Indiana while both Klines were in Vegas ?

 

[MistyWaters]

Just in case one wants to print out and compare the BarMacDon videotaped interview of KAK on/of Dec 9,2021. Here is a link to the actual transcript:

tX Vid Interview by Barbara McDo (1).pdf

Filed: 3/3/2022 3:13 PM Clerk Miami County, Indiana. 1234567009. STATE OF INDIANA. IN THE MIAMI CIRCUIT COURT. ). )ss:. COUNTY OF MIAMI. TERM 2022. ). STATE OF INDIANA VS. 10. ll. CAUSE NO. 52C01-2008-F4—254. KEGAN A. KLINE. 12 13 15. APPEARANCES. M. 14. 20. REPRESENTING THE DEFENDANT. l7 18. V ...

www.docdroid.net

The "lies/or story changes" (depending on whether or not you feeing generous and magnanimous with his new explanations) begin on the 1st page:
23 Q: Where were you on February 13th, 2017?
1 A: I was at my house. They have my G.P.S. locations and everything.
(But on the transcript of Aug 19, 2020 with Det V, KAK says he says he went to his grandparents house with his Dad and then returned home. This information was backed up with audio recorded by two law enforcement officers including an FBI agent.)
Alrighteee!! I just came across something I never read before, or overlooked. on page 4, Line 4:
4 Q: So do you remember umm the night of the 13the, the night that the girls went
5 missing? Do you remember communicating with Kelsey German?
6 A: No I don't.
Shut the front door! That is not a typo folks! Did someone using A_S accounts or KAK himself attempt to communicate with KG? (I was wondering why investigators were asking about 7:45pm on Monday night and what KAK was doing at that time.) KAK actually brings up that exact time, twice in his interview with DetV. Hmmm, is that the time he/they returned to the house and someone attempted to contact KG and act like a concerned citizen at 7:45 that night? Omg, wow. I hate to use this phrase, but, "Hiding in plain sight" seems to be rearing its ugly head again.
No Amber Alert and yet someone using that ISP address attempting to contact KG all the way from Peru, Indiana within hours of them missing? This is certainly sinister IMO.

I‘m sorry I don’t have a link so whatever it’s worth, I recall reading in a fairly recent statement KG staking she contacted everyone who was linked as a friend on Libby’s Instagam, which also included KAK, seeking information about the whereabouts of her sister. Not knowing anything about Instagram, would she have access to Libby’s friends list just by being a friend as well?

 

[IQuestion]

I‘m sorry I don’t have a link so whatever it’s worth, I recall reading in a fairly recent statement KG staking she contacted everyone who was linked as a friend on Libby’s Instagam, which also included KAK, seeking information about the whereabouts of her sister. Not knowing anything about Instagram, would she have access to Libby’s friends list just by being a friend as well?

Don't know how the social media networks work. But, the question asked by BMcD was (from the transcript) "So do you remember umm the night of the 13th, the night that the girls went missing? Do you remember communicating with Kelsey German?' To me that implies more than KG reaching out...it implies there was more interaction than just receipt of a bulletin/send-to-all-type of communication.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Between Feb 25 - Feb 27, 2017, KAK deleted the apps on his iPhone 5 and at the end of the affidavit, the agent says flat out that in deleting those apps, chats and such were destroyed. In the 2020 interview, LE claims the "grooming" stuff was deleted. Whatever was on the Samsung was likely lost when it was reset Feb. 23, 2017. While I think some data was probably retrieved from the devices, I'm guessing KAK's moves to destroy evidence were successful to some degree. And, he has Obstruction of Justice charges that apply to these actions, as well.

I hate to say this BUT for somebody that seems so (and comes across as) dumb, he’s kinda smart, at least in this regard.

moo. Ymmv.

 

[TL4S]

something doesn’t fit right in the timeline of the Vegas trip… evidence is KAK was raided on 2/25 by LE following up on complaint about peeping-tom incident linked to the a_s account. But also he was “just back” from trip to Vegas…. did he go right from the airport to peeping in windows??

And the peeping-tom incident happened right after the victim had given her address to a_s … as in she gave it to KAK while he was in Vegas? while he was repeatedly googling on the double murder, & then he put on his ski mask and headed out to peep in her window? Confusing how the vegas trip fits in with known facts

Obvs LE has asserted more than one user of the account … but the only other possible user I’ve heard of is TK and he was supposed to be in Vegas too.

Has LE or anyone else reliable ever confirmed that there even really was a trip to Vegas?

If there really was a trip to Vegas & it really included both KAK & TK….. does that mean there was a third participant in the a_s account who was peeping in Indiana while both Klines were in Vegas ?

Here is the timeline of events as I recall:

2/13/17 - Delphi murders
2/20/17 - Ski mask incident
2/2(1st, 2nd, or 3rd) through 2/25/17 - Vegas trip
2/25/17 - Peru house search

So the murders and ski mask incident happened exactly one week apart, then they left for the Vegas trip within a day or two after the ski mask incident, and the FBI was basically waiting for them on their return (not literally, but that's how it looks to me).

 

[MistyWaters]

Don't know how the social media networks work. But, the question asked by BMcD was (from the transcript) "So do you remember umm the night of the 13th, the night that the girls went missing? Do you remember communicating with Kelsey German?' To me that implies more than KG reaching out...it implies there was more interaction than just receipt of a bulletin/send-to-all-type of communication.

Well I sure wish I could find where KG discussed reaching out to Libby’s friends on instagram. Maybe someone else remembers? As I recall AS responded that he didn’t know, which I think is fair to regard as communication, especially since KAK is known to have been wiggle-wobbling over knowledge Libby was even missing. Otherwise I wouldn‘t want speculation to move toward KG as having some kind of personal involvement with KAK/AS because there’s absolutely no basis for that.

 

[TL4S]

Well I sure wish I could find where KG discussed reaching out to Libby’s friends on instagram. Maybe someone else remembers? As I recall AS responded that he didn’t know, which I think is fair to regard as communication, especially since KAK is known to have been wiggle-wobbling over knowledge Libby was even missing. Otherwise I wouldn‘t want speculation to move toward KG as having some kind of personal involvement with KAK/AS because there’s absolutely no basis for that.

I agree, this is important information to have right. I'm not sure it's a source we can link here, but the source I've seen shared was exactly as you describe it. KG reached out to some of the online accounts who L had been in contact with on SM, and a_shots was one of them. She said they had a short conversation and when he said he didn't know anything about L's whereabouts, that was the end of their communication.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree, this is important information to have right. I'm not sure it's a source we can link here, but the source I've seen shared was exactly as you describe it. KG reached out to some of the online accounts who L had been in contact with on SM, and a_shots was one of them. She said they had a short conversation and when he said he didn't know anything about L's whereabouts, that was the end of their communication.

Thank you!