Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #148

[Charlot123]

Hi @Charlot123 - you are among my favorite posters. I’m not totally sold on KAK as BG either .. yet. I’m hopeful to learn more with the river search.

I had not heard that the killer had some military training. Do you have additional info on that?

Thank you. BTW, sorry for mistakes in that post. It wasn’t a good phone that I used.

Now, I made my own “psychological portrait”, only that person who I used for the portrait has nothing to do with Delphi murders , IRL. (But he could have, were he in a decent age group). He is very religious, and when young, had intense religious feelings of god’s presence,. Among other things, he served in the army and was diagnosed with PTSD. Then, I started thinking - if everything during Delphi murders went how it was explained to us, the girls were, essentially, corralled, but corralling a human is very different from an animal. Who would have such ability? Neither a hunter nor a fisherman. Someone who has been at war, likely, or was trained to be. Someone military. Just my impression. I always felt he dealt with the girls too fast, too professionally.

 

[Yemelyan]

Yes. By themselves pieces of circumstantial evidence might not mean a whole lot, but start bundling them together and they are powerful.
In the interview transcript the investigators referred to it as “stacking”, telling KAK after bringing up some new point that it all “just keeps stacking”.

I guess I was also trying to make the point that, in general, circumstantial evidence CAN by powerful all by itself. If a child is assaulted and killed, and no witness saw it happen, but the attacker's blood and skin cells are under her nails and his DNA is on her body where it should not be, that circumstantial evidence is powerful in and of itself regardless if any other evidence is shown to "stack" (like phone records). That one piece of circumstantial evidence (the DNA) could be actually more reliable than, let's say, a closed circuit security camera video that showed the attack (direct evidence), if the attacker covered his face or was otherwise unrecognizable.

Of course, we still do not have a clear picture of what evidence LE might have in the Delphi case so I'm just speaking in general to people who may be relatively new to following criminal cases/investigations.

 

[TL4S]

Is it just another coincidence that KAK was taken out of Miami Co. jail and into ISP custody on 8/19/2022, the two year anniversary of the day he was first arrested?

I have an image of ISP coming in and saying, "Okay, it's been two years. You're in a lot of trouble with this CSAM stuff, but circumstantial evidence puts you in Delphi that day, as well. You either talk, or you're going to take the fall for that one, too." Or something like that. And then the negotiations begin...

We focus on what "evidence" was included in the 194 page transcript, and whether or not LE was lying about it, but honestly, I think LE has a lot more evidence that they are NOT telling KAK about, and maybe they fed him a little more of that on 8/19/2022.

 

[Justice101]

Backing up a bit to previous thread, didn't LE specifically say that BG was involved in the murder?

 

[minazoe]

for me the complications in this case likely have to do with multiple participants , and connections to possible other
unsolved cases.

for instance, the person who did this is not a beginner and had a clear motive...and maybe several motives.

money $$ from the pictures/media/video
sexual gratification
eradicating a possible problem ( annoying Libby) who was annoying KAK.

Have you heard that KAK sent money to Libby ? which brings me a question

why did KAK send money to Libby? what was it for? was it for pictures?

what was happening at the time time of this reset on her phone?

Did someone demand to see the phone to make sure it had been reset? have a lot of questions about this entire relationship.

mOO

 

[Gerrymd8]

"The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch ... is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls," Carter said.

SOURCE: PD release new info in hunt for man who killed Ind. girls

To anyone who is in LE or was in LE; is this the normal way of saying this is the murderer?

 

[cbeagle]

My four children talk to each other all the time via text. The tell each other things ... via text messages.

They use the words "talking" about their messages. These days, those words do not have to mean "orally spoken".

It may have been a typo in the original post I was responding to, but the only "she" of "she said" in the context was the female witness. It seems highly unlikely in a double murder case that LE questioned the witness using text, email or anything but a face to face interview. Thus IMHO I think we can safely say that the witness said to police that the anthony_shots account replied to her with "Oh my god ..." message.

 

[Ravenmoon]

And this is where we will differ in opinion:

I believe that LE does have enough to charge him now - at least as an accessory to the crime. It was admittedly his account. The purpose of the account was to catfish/lure victims for CSAM. If he allowed another individual(s) access to this account to commit same offence(s), then he "aided and abetted" that crime(s). Edit to add this sentence: they are in no need to rush any charges here as he isn't going anywhere any time soon due to the other charges pending.

I think the delay is that authorities are working on the details of whether he worked alone or as simply an accessory to another party committing this horrific crime and ergo "the negotiations" with him. "Give up who did it or you are being charged with the murders themselves because we've got all the (circumstantial) evidence we need to prove you/your account/your phone was involved in this crime. So, given that, if it wans't "you", "who was it?" Give them up and we'll look at charging you simply as an accessory to the crime." IMO.

Absolutely no disagreement with your post!

JMO

 

[TL4S]

IMO, the below exchange (if LE isn't lying) might explain part of what makes this case so complex, as LE has stated. From the 194 page transcipt:

Pg. 53

9 DC: - are people that communicated with you or you shared images through your drop

10 box link —

11 A: Yeah no.

12 DC: - we start looking at those people and it just freaking spirals out of control to this

13 major child *advertiser censored* ring.

14 Q: Absolutely, and you even have it to the point where when you're getting this child

15 *advertiser censored*, you're sharing it with your Emily Anne account to your Kegan Kline, Kegan

16 Kline drop box account.

 

[Prime8]

why a murder weapon recovery is done ( under cover ) ? I cant seem to understand this logic.. shouldn't you have dozens of cops around , and the scene is comepletly sealed if thats the actual search ?

Not necessarily. A few things - we don't know what kind of LE presence was on land at the time. A single patrol car (marked or unmarked) would likely be enough to make sure a random person doesn't wade into the water. Securing a search area would be different than a securing a known crime scene. When people do massive search parties for people or evidence, nothing is taped off, surrounded and secured. It's also been 5+ years so there's not going to a lot, if any, ways to contaminate evidence.

 

[Prime8]

Just throwing this out there again because.. why not. I'm not a huge fan of side by sides but I do find it interesting, and sometimes family resemblance only plays out in past photos. This is a young TK and the YBG sketch.

 

[Yemelyan]

Not necessarily. A few things - we don't know what kind of LE presence was on land at the time. A single patrol car (marked or unmarked) would likely be enough to make sure a random person doesn't wade into the water. Securing a search area would be different than a securing a known crime scene. When people do massive search parties for people or evidence, nothing is taped off, surrounded and secured. It's also been 5+ years so there's not going to a lot, if any, ways to contaminate evidence.

Agreed, IF it's related to the Delphi case, this is likely a search for corroborative physical evidence ("he said they threw the murder weapon off the bridge, and sure enough, we found a weapon matching that exact description there"), probably not forensic evidence (DNA, blood, fingerprints, etc). Though, we truly don't know the timing of when the item they are searching for ended up there, so that's speculation.

 

[Falcon500]

Is it just another coincidence that KAK was taken out of Miami Co. jail and into ISP custody on 8/19/2022, the two year anniversary of the day he was first arrested?

I have an image of ISP coming in and saying, "Okay, it's been two years. You're in a lot of trouble with this CSAM stuff, but circumstantial evidence puts you in Delphi that day, as well. You either talk, or you're going to take the fall for that one, too." Or something like that. And then the negotiations begin...

We focus on what "evidence" was included in the 194 page transcript, and whether or not LE was lying about it, but honestly, I think LE has a lot more evidence that they are NOT telling KAK about, and maybe they fed him a little more of that on 8/19/2022.

ill tell you that none of that happened . The day of the year had nothing to do with the day that ISP took custody of him. It just happened to be the day that was convenient.

Walking in and saying “talk or else” is something out of a 40 year old tv show. Any negotiations have gone through the defendants attorney who is probably the public defende. In fact it’s considered to be unethical for a prosecutor to deal directly with a defendant unless he is on record as defending himself.

 

[sunshineray]

Is this a matching link perhaps?? (Can't access because of EU-restrictions.)

ISP remarks on Delphi killer case ahead of 5-year anniversary​

https://fox59.com › news › isp-rem...

10.02.2022 — Superintendent Carter hopes to have a suspect in custody before the 10-year anniversary. “Unfortunately, I can't tell you everything that I, or ...

-.-.-

I wanted to know, when DC said something like "We will be pleased, one day to tell you (the public) all, we have on this case." There has to be a lot, what LE knew at that time already.
Then I'm thinking about, who DC might have meant, when he said something like "The locals will be shocked, when they learn, who the killer is." Did he really hint at a person like KAK (or TK)?? - Why should we (the public) be shocked about someone like the father/son duo or one of them? They are men like thousand others in Indiana, with a (criminal) history like thousand others, unfortunately. If DC didn't grossly exaggerate, KAK (or TK) aren't the killer/s. There has to be someone, who would be far more shocking than these two. Probably, because the person is viewed as 98% to be untainted. IMO

I wonder, if LE ever compared the list of a_s or Emily communicators (IF existent) to a names list of suspects out of the 50.000 tips, they got. Maybe, it would be very interesting, whether some names show up in both lists. Here participants of the SM-accounts - there suspects, called in by attentive citizens.

I believe that was Sheriff Leazenby who talked about the public being shocked. IIRC

 

[sunshineray]

why a murder weapon recovery is done ( under cover ) ? I cant seem to understand this logic.. shouldn't you have dozens of cops around , and the scene is comepletly sealed if thats the actual search ?

Well the searchers aren't under cover, they're being photographed out in the open and talked about a lot. Why isn't LE commenting? LE has commented on very little in the ongoing investigation. There are dozens of cops at the searches. One photo shows a multitude of LE cars and SUVs.

 

[TL4S]

ill tell you that none of that happened . The day of the year had nothing to do with the day that ISP took custody of him. It just happened to be the day that was convenient.

Walking in and saying “talk or else” is something out of a 40 year old tv show. Any negotiations have gone through the defendants attorney who is probably the public defende. In fact it’s considered to be unethical for a prosecutor to deal directly with a defendant unless he is on record as defending himself.

Thank you for explaining procedures accurately for those of us not in a position to know. Do you think the negotiations listed on court documents signifies anything?

 

[Prime8]

Thank you for explaining procedures accurately for those of us not in a position to know. Do you think the negotiations listed on court documents signifies anything?

Honestly, it probably doesn't mean anything. I think it's maybe significant that negotiations has gone on for so long but most criminal cases are negotiated. That's just how the legal system work in the U.S.

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you. BTW, sorry for mistakes in that post. It wasn’t a good phone that I used.

Now, I made my own “psychological portrait”, only that person who I used for the portrait has nothing to do with Delphi murders , IRL. (But he could have, were he in a decent age group). He is very religious, and when young, had intense religious feelings of god’s presence,. Among other things, he served in the army and was diagnosed with PTSD. Then, I started thinking - if everything during Delphi murders went how it was explained to us, the girls were, essentially, corralled, but corralling a human is very different from an animal. Who would have such ability? Neither a hunter nor a fisherman. Someone who has been at war, likely, or was trained to be. Someone military. Just my impression. I always felt he dealt with the girls too fast, too professionally.

Interesting...and in the war time mentality, no man really stands alone, they have assistance.

 

[sunshineray]

IMO, the below exchange (if LE isn't lying) might explain part of what makes this case so complex, as LE has stated. From the 194 page transcipt:

Pg. 53

9 DC: - are people that communicated with you or you shared images through your drop

10 box link —

11 A: Yeah no.

12 DC: - we start looking at those people and it just freaking spirals out of control to this

13 major child *advertiser censored* ring.

14 Q: Absolutely, and you even have it to the point where when you're getting this child

15 *advertiser censored*, you're sharing it with your Emily Anne account to your Kegan Kline, Kegan

16 Kline drop box account.

Yes the multitude of those involved in that dropbox must have been staggering to discover and then address...all within the murder case.

 

[justtrish]

I had posted earlier of the Anthony_Shots account that it was KAK who created it; his allowing someone else to utilize that account and said individual uses it for nefarious means (to arrange a meeting or to lure in CSAM victims for example) would still, IMO, allow for the law to charge him as party to the crime. He has admitted to CSAM (volumnous and horrific in it's nature for which he has already been charged and is in jail) etc and it seems the account was specificly set up for catfishing and luring in CSAM victims for photos/videos and other communications which he does not deny. He had access to that account, he was the originator of it, if he allowed other(s) to utilize for same 'goals', then he aided and abetted and served as the element that allowed this crime to occur - he could be charged as an accesory to the crime.

This is evidence. Circumstantial perhaps, but it is eveidence none the less and can be used at trial against him. And, to be clear, people are convicted at trials where the evidence is purely circumstantial; that happens when there's way too many "coincidental circumstances" that line up and the odds of which occuring "just by chance" are next to zero. I believe that's what we are seeing happen here.


Ergo, why I think he is "in negotiations".

This is how I feel with many cases. Are their coincidences? Sure.. Are there 5+ coincidences? Probably not, that is just more unlikely. Maybe KK looks at CSAM and happens to live close to Delphi. I can believe there are many people that might apply to and those are coincidences. The fact he had communication with one of the victims? The fact he admits to have communication the day prior or day of AND claims they were going to meet, but didn't. I think for me that goes beyond just a coincidence. Then the other fact would have to be that not only did Libby talk to this abuser during this short window of time, but then also became a victim of a completely different offender that day? I mean I am guessing it's not unlikely that there is KK in the area and another disgusting child abusing murder, but for the girls to have interactions with 2 different people like this that aren't connected at all in that 24 hour or so time frame? That's harder to believe and goes beyond just a coincidence or two.