Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #90

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Andreee

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May e someone else has mentioned already but I’m 90% convinced perp has items in his right pocket by freezing the video.
Not that if my thoughts were correct that it would help anything.
It looks like he is also wearing a fanny pack, to the right of his waistline. And something in his right pocket.
 

gngr~snap

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Thank you to all for keeping this thread open. As an internet community, I hope this stays open because a victim is a heroine who used media to identify her killer. I am so grateful for the new presser and new info. I think the vehicle and its parking spot shows it is likely someone familiar with the area. Also the release of the extra audio using "guys" may IMO be a way to dissociate with what a part of you is planning. My biggest question is why someone would park across the highway and cross to commit a crime and cross back when there are many places on the other side of the big bridge. Unless you came from the interstate highway. So you know the area but need to get out fast. You don't mind crossing a pedestrian bridge in full view twice as long as you can move quickly directly away from Delphi. This is planned, weighing risks IMO only. I do think they have "rattled his cage" as my LE friend would say. Has he been taunting them?
I agree. "Guys" was a distancing word.
Moo
 

wallaby

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If they’re working with familial DNA—that can take a long time, with no guarantee of success. They need to work every angle they have.

This is what I’ve been thinking too. I read there is a 60% chance for people to have a third cousin (or closer) on the type of database used to catch Joesph DeAngelo. The average person, where a family has 2-3 children, will have 200 third cousins, in rural areas where people tended to have bigger families (and often married 2nd/3rd cousins without even realising) until recently and had more children the number is thought to be higher.

They might have found someone they know is a 2nd/3rd cousin and have made a list of a family tree of everyone they need to look at. They might narrow it down to say a group of say around 40 males in an approximate age range and be looking at all them (that’s what they did with DeAngelo, they looked at a lot of his distant cousins before they got to him). It can take a long time and they need to try to get DNA samples to test. (They might be trying to surreptitiously get touch DNA).

If there are children at some point who were born out of wedlock or adopted they might not appear on family trees or records making it even harder.

Familial DNA can give other routes to look at but as you say, there is sadly no guarantee of success. Hopefully it ends up like some other recent cases though and points them in the direction they need to go.
 

moonlessnight

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I think LE had both sketches, and possibly more, from the beginning. For whatever reason, the guy from the sketch released today was not considered a POI earlier so his sketch was not released, but the older man was. Or the older man was drawn from the video using facial software. Maybe DNA proved the offender was younger than BG appeared?

I think the use of the word "guys" and his tone suggests familiarity. He says "down the hill" so nonchalantly as if he did not need to use force or aggression or threat, and he seems to expect them to cooperate. I am 99.9% sure he knew them, somehow. The family probably knows him or of him and he knows it, so it's a matter of will he run, confess, or try some other tactic? Or will his own family and friends turn him in? I think LE has been told by family or friends who the man in the sketch is, and it is a shocker to them all. As it always is...

ETA - I also think the use of LE holding up two fingers 2 inches apart to indicate how much conscience the suspect has left was a reference to having a small penis - the way someone would hold their fingers like that to indicate a tiny penis. That should piss off said suspect, particularly if this was a crime of power due to impotence or being sexually ridiculed and shamed.

I think you’re right. Carter alleged that as well.

“For more than two years, you never thought we would shift gears, but we have," he said. "We know this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know. And one day you will."...”
Man suspected of murdering teen girls in 2017 has close community ties
 
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Colorado303

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Thanks. Did you use the term 'guys' to include females prior to 1980?
I probably would have been better served to refer to adult males using the term 'guys' for young females - rather than us enlightened modern chickidees,
I’m from Chicago and used the term guys to address any group of more than one person for as long as I can remember ( and those memories start well before the 80’s).
 

sindydee

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I saw a post in the previous thread, I think it was posted by Chi. I was also thinking along the same lines that BG must have some sort of criminal history. I doubt he just one day decides to follow and murder 2 girls. There is usually a build up. I mean there may not be and this could of been a random attack. Or he may have done previous crimes and not been caught.

Maybe he is from out of town but has family in the area. Maybe he committed crimes in a different area and not been caught. Maybe he committed the crime then moved away and comes back to visit on holidays. Hence the timing of the press conference.

One thing I do find odd is why he was on the bridge. Is this bridge popular with young girl hikers? Or did he know they were going there? Or was he there looking for anyone? It strikes me he wasnt just going for a stroll with all that gear on and probably concealed weapons, so he either knew they were there or was just looking for anyone random. If he knew they were there then how?

I think the press conference was really well done. Just wondering why they are only just releasing the 2nd sketch now? Obviously they have their reasons.

I know we don't know the answers, just putting my opinion out there.
 

Strangeworld

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I have noticed that people have many words available (especially because we all watch TV and movies) and they instinctively choose to use different ones in different contexts. Abducting two people isn't the same as asking them if they want pizza.

For example, it's interesting that on this forum we don't call Abby and Libby 'guys', but we do use the word to describe the perp.

A police officer who is about to arrest you and your accomplice won't say "Guys, put your hands up." Someone might say to police "Guys, I'm innocent", but smarter ones will say "Officers".

As the detective said, this crime was about power. The word 'guys' is used in an everyday context, because it avoids expressing power. When you want to express your power, or acknowledge someone else's, you don't normally use that word.

Power can be expressed through manipulation and assertiveness. People in authority may use this term to gain a certain level of control over a situation or over another/their actions, but not come across as hostile. An example comes to mind of a teacher saying to a group of students, guys, come on, stop throwing things around. It is an assertion of power or seeking control, but in a non-aggressive manner. My feeling is this guy interacts with young people regularly.
 

Nancee Drue

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I think the guy's voice sounds a little bit older than 40. But, if Killer looks more like the second sketch, than the first, I am guessing he is in his late 20s.

In the beginning I kinda thought Killer was a stranger just wandering through town. I am now thinking Killer knows someone in Delphi, and perhaps he was visiting, there, or maybe working that day.

I don't think Killer just went out for a sunny afternoon stroll, on the bridge. I think Killer went out looking for trouble. He may have known the schools were closed that day.

Someone has to recognize the guy from the video.
 

tmar

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Yes, it was a VERY targeted statement and he knew BG would know what he meant. Doesn't matter that the public doesn't get the reference.

Was that movie shown recently at church? Was the book or movie given to LE by someone following the case? Did a pastor mention it in a sermon recently?

Is there an actual shack in this case where evidence was found???

jmo

Early on in this case, there was a great deal of discussion about a nearby shack/shed.
The owners were not present.
We wondered if BG stored his tools there, slept there, took the girls there etc.
What evidence may have been found there.
This discussion occurred around the time the owner of the property, where girls were found, was arrested.
MOO.
 

Colorado303

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I don't think they sat on this sketch for 2 years. I think the first sketch released is the perp, as is the second with changed facial maintenance. There had to have been some new evidence come to light to reveal the new sketch, same with the request for tips about the car.
If the two sketches are of the same person, then whoever it is must have shaved in the three days following the murders, right? That should help narrow it down.

Also, the speculation LE initially dismissed the “new” sketch because whoever it is had a reason to be there (wherever “there” was) rings true to me, but if that’s the case LE should already know who he is. Why publish the sketch and ask for people to identify him?

I’m completely confused but choose to believe LE knows what they’re doing and it’s all part of a well-founded master plan. Hope it works and works soon!
 

Colorado303

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Good point about that small of a town, and no one recognizes him? Particularly since LE states they think he is a resident, altho he could be living elsewhere and come back to "visit". I'm thinking by saying he may appear younger means "babyfaced", which some men are. They're 40 and still look 25.
I too, am stymied over holding on to this sketch for 2 years. Reminds me of the case where a woman was kidnapped from a gas station/convenience shop and it was caught on camera. LE put out that it was a guy in his late teens or 20's wearing a sweatshirt/jogging and spent a LOT of time looking for a man like that when in reality it was an older guy40-50 wearing a baseball jersey (Which I could see the first time I saw tape!)
The look at his mannerisms was strange because there are NO mannerisms to look at with a 1 second clip (hands in pockets?) that's a mannerism? I am really failing to see why a longer clip of him walking wasn't released.
I’ve been wondering if the “video” isn’t a standard video at all but one of those iPhone “live photos” that show movement that occurred in the second before and after the still picture if you press on it.
 

Aus94

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They say the new sketch is coming from a witness.

Perhaps what could have happened is that one of the original individuals who provided a witness account two years ago only gave a general description as they obviously wouldn’t have known at the time how important it would be to recognise this person.

I wonder if maybe they’ve come across this person in the general Delphi public two years later, they’ve realised where they saw him originally and reported it. I imagine once you had seen the general features you would know straight away if you saw them again.
 

dreamwarrior66

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The fact that LE used the word coward to describe BGs attack on the two girls is interesting. It doesn't imply a motive of murdering young girls. This sounds more like revenge/retaliation. Someone did something or owes money, hurting a child is to send a message is cowardly. While hunting for youngsters is more predatory.
 

mtnlites

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The fact that LE used the word coward to describe BGs attack on the two girls is interesting. It doesn't imply a motive of murdering young girls. This sounds more like revenge/retaliation. Someone did something or owes money, hurting a child is to send a message is cowardly. While hunting for youngsters is more predatory.

IMO they used the word "coward" to help draw BG out, hoping it helps him make a mistake. They've used that same tactic in the past. If he's feeling pretty cocky right now, pretty confident that he'll never be caught, and if the deaths WERE about him feeling powerful then that's a pretty big shot to his ego. It might just make him miss a step.
 

Falling Down

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A few more thoughts.

The “new” sketch was actually done only a few days after the murders. It was never previously released, however I’m guessing the families would have been shown. Imagine their shock/anger when a sketch they were likely told to disregard more than 2 years ago is now back at center stage.

The vehicle, what if someone in the community was well known for frequently leaving their vehicle in that abandoned lot? Sure folks aren’t going to remember where they saw a certain vehicle over 2 years later , but a lot of people will remember if a certain vehicle was repeatedly parked there. It also wouldn’t cause much suspicion among locals for that vehicle to be there, even the day the girls went missing, because it’s not out of place. Sure a few folks might have mentioned it to see if the person could be a witness, but I’m guessing his alibi provided a valid explanation for why it was there.

I think LE knows exactly what vehicle was there and who owns it. They just need someone to put 2 and 2 together and call in that final tip.

^^^^THIS

I'd be angry, too.
 

KenzieK

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So what's the "new direction" the investigation is going? What is the "big news" they teased prior to the press conference, but didn't deliver? As far as I can tell, nothing has changed and no new information was released. A short clip of the guy taking a couple of steps isn't any more helpful than the still pic that we've had for two years. The audio clip has one extra word in it which doesn't get us any closer. They are still trying to identify the guy on the bridge and apparently still don't have any other leads. Is this new sketch supposed to be the guy on the bridge or a different suspect?

I'm getting the feeling that the only purpose of the press conference (and big buildup beforehand) was to get this case back into the spotlight (which is a good thing, of course). Sadly, there really has been no new development at all.

Still hoping for justice for Abby and Libby!
 

AliceInPain

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Some random thoughts or mainly questions having slept on it:

The car: No one will remember if they saw a car at that location during those hours on that day two years ago, especially not without a description. If LE knows there was a car there they would know kind of what it looked like, so why wouldn't they mention it? And if they don't know what it looked like, how do they know it was there? What was the point of mentioning the car?

The audio: Why didn't they release that before? Surely they don't think BG is the only person in the world who says "guys." Seemed like a pointless update to me, but I'm sure it wasn't. How could it be relevant?

The video: Yeah, look at him moving, but don't take note of his limp, that is because the bridge is difficult to walk on. Seems equally pointless as the added audio that adds nothing new, and you'd think they could have released from the beginning. Why show it if we're not to take note of his gait?

The sketch: Was a game-changer for sure. Where does it come from? How do they know he doesn't have a beard and looks scruffy anymore? How do they know he might appear younger than his age? ???????

The message to BG: Lots of religious references, talk about conscience and shame, calling him a coward. It was very specific imo. Did BG leave something at the scene that makes them think he's this kind of person?

I feel this whole news conference was for the killer, from how they announced it in advance inviting the public, his emotional behaviour and the way he was looking around the room, mention of the car that the public unlikely can remember, the choice of words. Etc.

I'm 50/50 on if they actually know who it is, or if it's just a new tactic to lure him out using what they know. It was certainly the strangest news conference I've ever watched.
 
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