Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams & Liberty (Libby) German - The Delphi Murders - #149

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StarryStarryNight

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MOO That is a question for Superintendent Carter. He was and is in charge of a multi department investigation.

Personally I don’t think anybody is in charge of the task force and that’s one of the big problems. Carter is certainly the face and voice of the investigation, but I think the local, county, state and FBI have all been doing their own things and haven’t been talking to each other much. Too many cooks in the kitchen.
 

GoBuckeyes

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MOO That is a question for Superintendent Carter. He was and is in charge of a multi department investigation.
I don't think Kline held up or would hold up against the FBI. I think the questioning was all at the local level, unless Kline has one heck of a lawyer. And that's one luxury I don't see him being able to afford. jmoo
 

sunshineray

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Carter and ISP were in full charge of the Delphi investigation. FBI would assist.
But not when it came to the huge child crimes task force and the drop box that KAK was a part of, IMO. I think that's where the information was not shared and as we're informed now, LG was a part of that via anthony_shots account. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.Why else was a know offender (and one who dealt with crimes against the extremely young toddlers too) not prosecuted right away? Why was it said the Delphi murders had nothing to do with internet crimes? Information was not shared. I wonder, was it Quantico that did the information extraction on KAK's? I think it probably was, AJMO
Carter is in charge of the double murder investigation. He is the responsible agency head. MOO It is as simple as that.
Early on before they got their press statements aligned, yes, CCSO said it had nothing to do with the internet but they also had a contradictory statement of “know what your children are doing.” CCSO was following up on the infamous sleep over pretty quick.

MOO, They could not crack KAK and did not have and do not still have had/have enough evidence to bring an AA.
MOO The additional prison sentence threat ended up being their only leverage.
ISP admitted to something took place that wasn't done on purpose in that statement after KAK was jailed...eluding to something investigative wasn't done properly, that is all just my opinion.
 

Boxer

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MOO
CCSO should have been in charge.
ISP clearly took over with Holeman (ISP) taking over as lead investigator FBI assisted with tech and forensic.
The leads were his to present to his teams and green light the resources belonged to Carter.
 

Schatz

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But not when it came to the huge child crimes task force and the drop box that KAK was a part of, IMO. I think that's where the information was not shared and as we're informed now, LG was a part of that via anthony_shots account. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.Why else was a know offender (and one who dealt with crimes against the extremely young toddlers too) not prosecuted right away? Why was it said the Delphi murders had nothing to do with internet crimes? Information was not shared. I wonder, was it Quantico that did the information extraction on KAK's? I think it probably was, AJMO

ISP admitted to something took place that wasn't done on purpose in that statement after KAK was jailed...eluding to something investigative wasn't done properly, that is all just my opinion.
… I’m just piecing this together. So, plainly, perhaps FBI investigating a larger case precluded an immediate arrest of KAK AND sharing of that intelligence with ISP?
 

Boxer

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Personally I don’t think anybody is in charge of the task force and that’s one of the big problems. Carter is certainly the face and voice of the investigation, but I think the local, county, state and FBI have all been doing their own things and haven’t been talking to each other much. Too many cooks in the kitchen.
He is in charge, whether he is managing the different departments is another issue.
CCSO
I think it's a real possiblity. Maybe the phones were misplaced or put on the back burner for other leads?
There is lead investigator on the case, Holeman of the ISP.
He is to coordinate the investigation team with with ISP Carter and CCSO Leazenby, while FBI provides tech and forensics.
Gannon Stauch is textbook good policing. The El Paso Count Sheriff remained the lead agency. FBI provided a massive sifting search of roads and highways.
 

Boxer

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Sunshineray “I think it's a real possiblity. Maybe the phones were misplaced or put on the back burner for other leads?”

MOO There is lead investigator on the case, Holeman of the ISP.
He is to coordinate the investigation team with with ISP Carter and CCSO Leazenby, while FBI provides tech and forensics.
Gannon Stauch is textbook good policing. The El Paso Count Sheriff remained the lead agency. FBI provided a massive sifting search of roads and highways.
 

Yemelyan

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But not when it came to the huge child crimes task force and the drop box that KAK was a part of, IMO. I think that's where the information was not shared and as we're informed now, LG was a part of that via anthony_shots account. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.Why else was a know offender (and one who dealt with crimes against the extremely young toddlers too) not prosecuted right away? Why was it said the Delphi murders had nothing to do with internet crimes? Information was not shared. I wonder, was it Quantico that did the information extraction on KAK's? I think it probably was, AJMO

BBM....I think the digital forensics examination on KAK's devices was done by the ISP, not the FBI...JMO.

If I go back to the probable cause affidavit, where Detective Vido lays out the CSAM case against KAK, it says that while working a certain ISP case (redacted - my guess is, it's the murders of Abby and Libby), the FBI forwarded to the ISP the information that an adult male was soliciting underage females using the Anthony Shots profile. Based on the information, subpoenas were sent to SnapChat and Instagram that determined the IP address that was being used, and it was traced to the Canal St House in Peru, where the ISP and the FBI jointly executed a search warrant on 2/25/17.

However, we also see in this affidavit that the digital forensic examination of the devices seized in the Canal St search was eventually given to Detective Vido in June of 2020 by Indiana State Police Sgt. Chris Cecil. If you Google him, he's the assistant head of the ISP Cyber Crimes Unit...one of ISP's top experts in internet crimes against children. So I don't think the FBI was responsible for not sharing relevant information from the devices. I think that examination was primarily done in-house by the ISP, by their Cyber Crimes unit team based in Indianapolis. I have no idea why it took so long, but there were a lot of devices and apparently a lot of material. As @TL4S said, it's not like KAK stumbled across a few images here or there. He had how many devices filled with this material or digital traces of it?

It seems crazy to me that it would take over three years, but the digital examinations are also more complex than what the public knows. I can't make any conclusion yet about whether the length of time of the investigation is due to someone dropping the ball on the extraction of the data or if that's just how long it takes. I don't think it was so much that information was not shared between agencies, as information was not yet known.

Here's a link to the probable cause affidavit published by local news WISHTV: https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf
 

TL4S

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BBM....I think the digital forensics examination on KAK's devices was done by the ISP, not the FBI...JMO.

If I go back to the probable cause affidavit, where Detective Vido lays out the CSAM case against KAK, it says that while working a certain ISP case (redacted - my guess is, it's the murders of Abby and Libby), the FBI forwarded to the ISP the information that an adult male was soliciting underage females using the Anthony Shots profile. Based on the information, subpoenas were sent to SnapChat and Instagram that determined the IP address that was being used, and it was traced to the Canal St House in Peru, where the ISP and the FBI jointly executed a search warrant on 2/25/17.

However, we also see in this affidavit that the digital forensic examination of the devices seized in the Canal St search was eventually given to Detective Vido in June of 2020 by Indiana State Police Sgt. Chris Cecil. If you Google him, he's the assistant head of the ISP Cyber Crimes Unit...one of ISP's top experts in internet crimes against children. So I don't think the FBI was responsible for not sharing relevant information from the devices. I think that examination was primarily done in-house by the ISP, by their Cyber Crimes unit team based in Indianapolis. I have no idea why it took so long, but there were a lot of devices and apparently a lot of material. As @TL4S said, it's not like KAK stumbled across a few images here or there. He had how many devices filled with this material or digital traces of it?

It seems crazy to me that it would take over three years, but the digital examinations are also more complex than what the public knows. I can't make any conclusion yet about whether the length of time of the investigation is due to someone dropping the ball on the extraction of the data or if that's just how long it takes. I don't think it was so much that information was not shared between agencies, as information was not yet known.

Here's a link to the probable cause affidavit published by local news WISHTV: https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf
What I find interesting about that first paragraph of the affidavit is how the FBI was the one to bring it to ISP's attention that someone named a_shots was contacting young girls. They had to have had that information very soon after the murders since ISP had time to get subpoenas and such before Feb. 25, 2017. It makes me curious if the FBI was already looking into a_shots in a different investigation.

I assumed the redacted case was the Delphi murders, as well, but I also wonder if it could be the ski mask incident (if that incident is in fact real). The answers to the polygraph listed in the affidavit say they are in response to a redacted case, but they don't really fit specific to Delphi, IMO. Although in the interview, it's stated he failed the polygraph regarding Delphi, so who knows. Can they ask about more than one case during a polygraph? But even if it was in regards to the ski mask incident, why would the FBI have the a_shots information before ISP? Would the FBI have handled that call about the ski mask peeper?
 

TL4S

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What I find interesting about that first paragraph of the affidavit is how the FBI was the one to bring it to ISP's attention that someone named a_shots was contacting young girls. They had to have had that information very soon after the murders since ISP had time to get subpoenas and such before Feb. 25, 2017. It makes me curious if the FBI was already looking into a_shots in a different investigation.

I assumed the redacted case was the Delphi murders, as well, but I also wonder if it could be the ski mask incident (if that incident is in fact real). The answers to the polygraph listed in the affidavit say they are in response to a redacted case, but they don't really fit specific to Delphi, IMO. Although in the interview, it's stated he failed the polygraph regarding Delphi, so who knows. Can they ask about more than one case during a polygraph? But even if it was in regards to the ski mask incident, why would the FBI have the a_shots information before ISP? Would the FBI have handled that call about the ski mask peeper?
Replying to my own post because it was too late to edit...

When I think about it, I contradicted myself at the end. If the FBI took the ski mask case, then it wouldn't be listed as the redacted ISP case. Duh...one or the other.

Nonetheless, I still wonder if maybe the FBI had a CSAM investigation going on that led them to a_shots. But obviously they hadn't subpoenaed a_shots to lead them to Peru yet. I'm confused...how did the FBI know about a_shots before the ISP?
 

IQuestion

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In the KAK transcript, KAK mentioned he had performed the marriage ceremony for a relative in Indiana. So I wondered where and when he obtained his license and if it had anything to do with the timing of his statement on turning his life around. And if it overlapped any of the dates of the CSAM charges. It appears he did get his license in Nevada.
Kegan lives in Nevada and was ordained by American Marriage Ministries on April 30th, 2018.
The premium package is $98 if you were interested.
 
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IQuestion

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Also, some people had wondered if KAK was selling access to CSAM materials. I looked at the wording in the charges and specifically how many of the charges used the word "dissemination." I found lots of slightly different words/definitions but it generally (at least to me meant): Spreading, reporting, sharing, presenting, or publishing for others to use, peruse, consume, save, access etc. Now the drop box questions become even more relevant when DetV asked about it.
 

TL4S

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In the KAK transcript, KAK mentioned he had performed the marriage ceremony for a relative in Indiana. So I wondered where and when he obtained his license and if it had anything to do with the timing of his statement on turning his life around. And if it overlapped any of the dates of the CSAM charges. It appears he did get his license in Nevada.
Kegan lives in Nevada and was ordained by American Marriage Ministries on April 30th, 2018.
The premium package is $98 if you were interested.
Online, he has sex with both his step-sister and dad all at once. IRL, he performs his mother's wedding.

Online he works as a dealer at a casino in Vegas. IRL, he makes plans for he and his dad to go to the Bunny Ranch.

Online he is in Nevada on Feb. 13, 2017. IRL, he is...?

It's like standing on the north and south pole at the same time.
 

Yemelyan

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Replying to my own post because it was too late to edit...

When I think about it, I contradicted myself at the end. If the FBI took the ski mask case, then it wouldn't be listed as the redacted ISP case. Duh...one or the other.

Nonetheless, I still wonder if maybe the FBI had a CSAM investigation going on that led them to a_shots. But obviously they hadn't subpoenaed a_shots to lead them to Peru yet. I'm confused...how did the FBI know about a_shots before the ISP?

Do we know when the FBI began running point for tips coming into the Abby and Libby dedicated tipline? At one point I think I remember an article discussing how the FBI was basically running the tipline, using a proprietary software called Pyramid to sort tips based on similar information and relevance. Could it be that a person who knew about either the ski mask incident or KAK's online activities took it upon themselves to call the Delphi tipline very early on in the investigation?

Here's one article that talks about Pyramid and the Delphi case but I don't think it says when they first implemented it: Delphi investigators are comparing tips with cases across the country to find Libby & Abby's killer
 

TL4S

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Do we know when the FBI began running point for tips coming into the Abby and Libby dedicated tipline? At one point I think I remember an article discussing how the FBI was basically running the tipline, using a proprietary software called Pyramid to sort tips based on similar information and relevance. Could it be that a person who knew about either the ski mask incident or KAK's online activities took it upon themselves to call the Delphi tipline very early on in the investigation?

Here's one article that talks about Pyramid and the Delphi case but I don't think it says when they first implemented it: Delphi investigators are comparing tips with cases across the country to find Libby & Abby's killer
You made me curious. So it appears they announced that the FBI would be taking over the tip line calls the same day they announced using the billboards and the reward was raised to $50,000. Thursday, February 23, 2017. There are multiple sources, but here's one:

UPDATED: Reward up to $50K in Delphi double homicide case; FBI answering tip line

So, if a tip came in on Feb. 23 or 24, or the FBI reviewed previous tips once they took over, could the ISP (or FBI) get subpoenas on SC and IG, get the results, subpoena Comcast, get the results, and get a search warrant all by Feb. 25?
 
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Yemelyan

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You made me curious. So it appears they announced that the FBI would be taking over the tip line calls the same day they announced using the billboards and the reward was raised to $50,000. Thursday, February 23, 2017. There are multiple sources, but here's one:

UPDATED: Reward up to $50K in Delphi double homicide case; FBI answering tip line

So, if a tip came in on Feb. 23 or 24, or the FBI reviewed previous tips once they took over, could the ISP (or FBI) get subpoenas on SC and IG, get the results, subpoena Comcast, get the results, and get a search warrant all by Feb. 25?

That timeline seems awfully tight. It's possible that the FBI was primarily handling tips before it was "officially" announced as their role on the 23rd, which would give a little more time.

This might end up being one of those things that is a mystery until a trial happens and more info comes out. May that day not be too far in the future!
 

FrostedGlass

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the latest episode of the MS with their very problematic guest have just validated all my opinions of them and their goals ...let no doubt stays
they cant sink any lower
I didn't get much out of that one, either. He probably wasn't doing and saying anything different than tens of thousands of other men who are locked away.

One thing was of interest and that is he started using weed and pills when he was 12 yo. (49 mm). He said it was bad for a few years then he moved in with his dad. He hated living there. TK made him feel worst than dirt... he hated life for a very long time.

Who introduced him to drugs at such a young age?

Being an only child, I bet TK twisted him in every way possible.
 

JnRyan

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For the longest time all the LE voices in this case - Carter, Holeman, Riley - were ISP so I assumed ISP was the lead agency. Then in 2021, CC Sheriff Tobe Leazenby gave a different take on it when answering questions in the Comet.

Q. "Why did you and the prosecutor choose to do an interview with Headline News (HLN) yet ISP said there would not be a press conference this year? Again, who is leading the case? ISP, county sheriff, FBI or county prosecutor? You can see the confusion for the public and the mixed signals, so to speak. Expand on who runs what parts of the investigation. Who determines when there is a press conference?"


A. "In a general sense, the leading agency, is the agency who routinely patrols and responds to calls for police services in a given jurisdiction. In this case, my professional opinion is that this crime occurred “in the county” and we are considered the “lead” agency. ISP, FBI, Prosecutor’s Office, Investigator, and all other agencies are considered “assist” agencies, coming on board to “assist” us. Being a small agency, we frequently rely on larger agencies who have many more resources (lab, manpower, technical assistance, etc.) to help with investigations. This is commonplace throughout the United States. Smaller agencies will sometimes “relinquish” an investigation to a larger, “assisting” agency, such as ISP, but I feel strongly that since this crime occurred in the county, I feel we are the lead but with many partners. Additionally, when decisions, which we feel are major to the case, are being looked at, our investigative partners are consulted, like a huge “think tank”, and we all reach a decision which all agree upon."

NOW with the internet and catfishing aspect I wonder again who is the lead agency since the PSA came from ISP and ISP Superintendent Carter gave an interview this February. Has ISP taken over the case? Leazenby is apparently term limited as sheriff and is a lame duck CCSO with the election coming next month. I don't recall any substantial comments Leazenby has made since the anthony_shots information has come out.
 
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