Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams & Liberty (Libby) German - The Delphi Murders - #150 *ARREST*

[5W's]

Wow. This is another case I thought would languish never having an arrest. If this is the perp then its an excellent outcome. It was a week ago that LE dug around a firepit at the suspect's home. So if that was a week ago then I wonder if LE knew about him and were surveilling him to watch his moves? When they had enough on him they arrested him or was he about to go and do something else so LE didn't want to take that chance? No criminal record, like I've said in the past not in any database. If this suspect is the perp then that's one of the reasons that he was able to evade police. Think about it the perp killed two girls/people. Are there more unknown? I know its a scary thought but this is real life its no drama where people can say it can't happen.

 

[Zabble]

It's clear from the documents that Murder Sheet released, that law enforcement suspects this guy, and perhaps his father.

He'd protect his dad, but why would be protect a stranger?

He'd protect a stranger if the stranger wasn't a stranger to him, and revealing who this guy is and what he did, would also bury him as well.

Another option would be that KAK was talking to RA online and didn't know RA's real identity. He could've given RA details that the girls would be at MHB but couldn't really identify RA to LE to save his @ss. He probably couldn't remember the exact profile name that RA used as he (KAK) deleted his accounts. Maybe that's why it took LE so long to try and identify LE since making the KAK / A_S connection.

 

[MassGuy]

Another option would be that KAK was talking to RA online and didn't know RA's real identity. He could've given RA details that the girls would be at MHB but couldn't really identify RA to LE to save his @ss. He probably couldn't remember the exact profile name that RA used as he (KAK) deleted his accounts. Maybe that's why it took LE so long to try and identify LE since making the KAK / A_S connection.

That does work, but in that case, why would they search the river near KAK's house? It's like 40 miles away from the murder site, and practically in KAK's backyard.

That's why I tend to think that he may have at least been at the scene, even if he was waiting in a car.

Then maybe he dumped items in the river afterwards.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564725341444268032

 

[k-mac]

Just thinking more about this; what we've seen recently, and what just happened.

We learn all this stuff about KAK, and his connection to the murders via his catfishing and communication with one of the victims.

It's clear from the documents that Murder Sheet released, that law enforcement suspects this guy, and perhaps his father.

He'd protect his dad, but why would be protect a stranger?

He'd protect a stranger if the stranger wasn't a stranger to him, and revealing who this guy is and what he did, would also bury him as well.

So I think law enforcement knew someone else was involved, but were barking up the wrong tree with dad. KAK is looking at decades in prison on his original charges.

They make some sort of a deal in regards to the murder charges, and he takes it. He guides them to evidence that was dumped in the river, and reveals the name of his accomplice.

The timing of all this makes sense, as I figured he was talking based on that river search, and him being pulled out of jail.

Because think about this, there's no way he'd know where that evidence was unless he was involved, and no reason for him not to have cooperated before if he wasn't.

I wonder if we won't hear about two people charged with these murders come Monday.

100% agree with all the above

think it was the murder sheet said KAK said he was waiting in the car?......
he has to have cut a deal......and he HAS to be intimately involved/connected.

 

[5W's]

I think it’s likely he wouldn’t have recognized those witnesses again if he had seen them on the bridge. He was likely preoccupied with his mission. And people are varied in their facial recognition ability, especially in a different context. I doubt I’d recognize the medical assistant at my doctor’s office if I saw her at the grocery store. But my husband, who is almost in the “super recognizer” category very likely would. If RA was average, he likely wouldn’t be nervous or jittery if he saw them again because he wouldn’t recognize them. JMO

I don't think that is so in all cases, however, so to dismiss it is worrying for the witnesses because they could be in danger. If living in the same area it shows the confidence of the perp in going about thier life in the same location. If the perp ever suspected they were in danger of being arrested I think there would be a different outcome on the perp's part like moving or discreetly telling the witness that he knows who they are. Why didn't this happen well, it could be the perp was confident.

 

[JnRyan]

Just thinking more about this; what we've seen recently, and what just happened.

We learn all this stuff about KAK, and his connection to the murders via his catfishing and communication with one of the victims.

It's clear from the documents that Murder Sheet released, that law enforcement suspects this guy, and perhaps his father.

He'd protect his dad, but why would be protect a stranger?

He'd protect a stranger if the stranger wasn't a stranger to him, and revealing who this guy is and what he did, would also bury him as well.

So I think law enforcement knew someone else was involved, but were barking up the wrong tree with dad. KAK is looking at decades in prison on his original charges.

They make some sort of a deal in regards to the murder charges, and he takes it. He guides them to evidence that was dumped in the river, and reveals the name of his accomplice.

The timing of all this makes sense, as I figured he was talking based on that river search, and him being pulled out of jail.

Because think about this, there's no way he'd know where that evidence was unless he was involved, and no reason for him not to have cooperated before if he wasn't.

I wonder if we won't hear about two people charged with these murders come Monday.

If there are two involved, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is charged with something like obstruction while LE goes digging in another direction. IOW, something to keep him in jail. Then, if there is another person, we get the murder/accessory charges when they are arrested.

 

[MassGuy]

If there are two involved, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is charged with something like obstruction while LE goes digging in another direction. IOW, something to keep him in jail. Then, if there is another person, we get the murder/accessory charges when they are arrested.

I think I'd it was something that minor though (in the grand scheme of things), they wouldn't have moved him to another facility.

It's possible, but personally, I'm not a huge fan. Then again, I've been dead set against there being more than one person involved, since the beginning of this case.

If there is an accessory charge here (or similar), my money is on KAK and not this Allen guy.

 

[Charlot123]

I was referring to this:

“I recently watched a movie called 'The Shack.' There’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death and about eternity," Carter said. "To the murderer, I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left. And I can assure you that how you left (German and Williams) in that woods is not what they’re experiencing today."

Why 'The Shack' 2017 film was mentioned in reference to unsolved Delphi murders

Indiana State Police superintendent mentions 2017 film 'The Shack' when talking about unsolved Delphi murders

www.indystar.com

so maybe I should have just said "conscience," and not religion per se

Carter is trying to use words from a Christian-theme book when allegedly addressing the killer.

It might be merely Carter’s viewing own innate consciousness through the prism of religion. However: so many things match the description of the killer given in 2019 PC, that one might assume RA being a church-goer. Whether his aim is to blend in, or he truly views himself as a believer, is unclear. (It is interesting to know what church he used to go to, though).

 

[JudgeJudi]

Seems like they’re scrambling to deal with the publicity fallout of the arrest. why did they bring him in at such an awkward time then - letting the rumor mill / press frenzy run all weekend - & even so why didn’t they at least plan for it?? EG not have people needed for press conference out of town.

I read that they wanted the news to get out about the presser as so many people have been following this case worldwide, and it will be broadcast across all platforms.

I don't expect we'll be given much info but rather that an arrest has been made, and I can live with that for the time being.

I was so excited when I learned of this last night (Oz time) that I stayed up until 4.30am. The poor families and friends have had to live with the uncertainty that someone would eventually be arrested. I can't begin to imagine how they've suffered losing their girls under what are obviously horrendous circumstances. They did everything within their power to spread the word of what happened and behaved with dignity at all times.

Hopefully he'll be charged soon. I have no doubt that LE have all the evidence they need to secure a conviction as they'll only get one bite at the cherry.

They will stay in our hearts forever. May Abby and Libby RIP.

 

[kkdj]

Carter is trying to use words from a Christian-theme book when allegedly addressing the killer.

It might be merely Carter’s viewing own innate consciousness through the prism of religion. However: so many things match the description of the killer given in 2019 PC, that one might assume RA being a church-goer. Whether his aim is to blend in, or he truly views himself as a believer, is unclear. (It is interesting to know what church he used to go to, though).

Do we know if he went to church? I'm not from a small town so I wonder if in small towns it's expected that everyone attend church and how many selections of churches one might have.
My point being, he may not believe, but felt he had to make a show.

 

[k-mac]

Just thinking more about this; what we've seen recently, and what just happened.

We learn all this stuff about KAK, and his connection to the murders via his catfishing and communication with one of the victims.

It's clear from the documents that Murder Sheet released, that law enforcement suspects this guy, and perhaps his father.

He'd protect his dad, but why would be protect a stranger?

He'd protect a stranger if the stranger wasn't a stranger to him, and revealing who this guy is and what he did, would also bury him as well.

So I think law enforcement knew someone else was involved, but were barking up the wrong tree with dad. KAK is looking at decades in prison on his original charges.

They make some sort of a deal in regards to the murder charges, and he takes it. He guides them to evidence that was dumped in the river, and reveals the name of his accomplice.

The timing of all this makes sense, as I figured he was talking based on that river search, and him being pulled out of jail.

Because think about this, there's no way he'd know where that evidence was unless he was involved, and no reason for him not to have cooperated before if he wasn't.

I wonder if we won't hear about two people charged with these murders come Monday.

Another point that shoots aim straight at KAK the Wabash river is stone throw from his home. Not RA.
Evidence that aims at RA near KAKs house that KAK directs LE to.
In it up to his eyeballs.

 

[margarita25]

This is old, but how do we know LE figured his height and they didn't get it from a witness?

LISTEN: Police release audio from teen's cell phone in Delphi murder investigation

The grainy photo police released was taken on the popular Monon High Bridge. Police say the picture has already been enhanced, and their description is no better than a white male in a blue jacket and blue jeans.

"We can't provide height or weight," Slocum said. "The picture speaks for itself."

Pulling my post for reference from April 3, 2022 - I wonder if this time frame is significant, when the height, etc. was removed from the FBI posters. Article is March 16. I said “Now they could get tips of someone who is, say 5’5”. Why would they open themselves up to this if there is no way that could be the man on the bridge?”

Backtracking a bit to mention/question one point regarding the FBI removing height, specifically, from the FBI poster:

Reference:

Some suspect info removed from FBI poster on Delphi killings | wthr.com

"The Delphi Task Force requested the FBI to remove the physical descriptors listed on the flyer. Investigators do not want to discourage or stop the public from submitting a tip because the person does not specifically meet the height, weight, and age description. Investigators would like the public to focus on the photo of the man on the bridge, the voice recording, and second sketch that was released by law enforcement."

I understand what they’re saying, but I thought the height is a variable that is determined/calculated via a scientific method. I remember from the old Forensic Files, etc. they were able to ascertain a subject’s height, for example someone in Walmart surveillance footage, via a mathematical/calculative approach. Iirc, there’s a specific name for this and I can not remember what it is right now. But my point is, isn’t the height something that is definitive, based on evaluating distance, etc.? So why would they want tips on subjects who may not be this height? Obviously there is more room for variance wrt age and weight, but is there actually room for error with the original height estimate? I’m not quite understanding how the height could vary in this instance and appreciate feedback on this.

—

Eta: A quick google of height determination as related to suspects in video footage reveals many results; this link appears to mention what I’m thinking about:

How Video Forensic Experts Determine Height in Images and Videos | ncavf.com

“Enhanced photo from a crime scene. NCAVF used advanced 3D rendering software to build a model of the crime scene, compare that model to frames from surveillance video, and determine the height of a suspect.

The science of measuring height in photographs (or from video frames) is called photogrammetry. NCAVF is able to utilize these forensic techniques. This process can only be done after some aspect of successful crime scene reconstruction. The four main methods of measuring height are:

1. 3D Modeling of the Perpetrator,
2. 3D Modeling of the Crime Scene,
3. Reverse Projection Photogrammetry, and
4. Single View Metrology (Vanishing Points).”

Eta2: “Photogrammetry !! That’s what I was thinking of!!! I thought this was an exact science, maybe it’s not? Furthermore, IF there could be a variance of say a few inches even, wouldn’t they at least be able to provide a range? Now they could get tips of someone who is, say 5’5”. Why would they open themselves up to this if there is no way that could be the man on the bridge?

—-

Eta3: Even before the advancement of “3D” technology, I think the height of a perp is something that could be ascertained pretty easily even without all the fancy technology.

—-

Eta4: More from the above link, there is a lot at that link, worth a read, imo:

“Three challenges are often faced while determining the height of a person in any type of surveillance imagery or videos:

1. Camera and Lens Calibration,
2. Lens Distortion, and
3. Techniques used by criminals to manipulate appearance of height.”

Last edited: Apr 3, 2022

 

[Forpsy]

I would like to know what was found in the Wabash River search.

Longtime lurker yada yada. I have posted before though so some my recognize the name. I have kept up with this case but not all that closely and not here at Websleuths because well, you guys are just too good for me. But curiosity has the better of me here so here I am. I'm sure my question could be answered with some research and I have done some too but I haven't seen anything about the following. So please forgive my laziness and if you have the time to answer my question please accept my thanks. The question is about the Wabash River search. Can someone either tell me about it or point me in the right direction? Being so patchy in my coverage I don't get every little thing and this is one of them. Why did they search the river? What were they looking for? Just general stuff. Again my heartfelt gratitude.

 

[Speculaytor]

Could one of the witnesses that were on the trail that day have been waited on by RA at the CVS pharmacy, and recognized him? Isn't it the only CVS in Delphi? It was one of my first thoughts.

 

[The Observer]

For those doubting if he is in fact the alleged murderer, BP herself has said in an emotional FB post "..because at long last we have a face to go with our monster...' I, like many others, don't think that would have been said if not for the family being told by LE that they had their man. JMO

 

[k-mac]

Longtime lurker yada yada. I have posted before though so some my recognize the name. I have kept up with this case but not all that closely and not here at Websleuths because well, you guys are just too good for me. But curiosity has the better of me here so here I am. I'm sure my question could be answered with some research and I have done some too but I haven't seen anything about the following. So please forgive my laziness and if you have the time to answer my question please accept my thanks. The question is about the Wabash River search. Can someone either tell me about it or point me in the right direction? Being so patchy in my coverage I don't get every little thing and this is one of them. Why did they search the river? What were they looking for? Just general stuff. Again my heartfelt gratitude.

I am not aware that anything has been released.
Most assume its a gun.....knife......or mobile phone.

But nothing solid stated.
moo

 

[k-mac]

For those doubting if he is in fact the alleged murderer, BP herself has said in an emotional FB post "..because at long last we have a face to go with our monster...' I, like many others, don't think that would have been said if not for the family being told by LE that they had their man. JMO

yes
Kelsey stated....
today is the day.

no if buts maybes.

 

[JudgeJudi]

He wouldn’t talk much because his voice was all over the internet as being BG. I wonder if he was perhaps more talkative in the community before the murders?

Chandler Underhill, the manager of the Brick & Mortar Pub, told WXIN that Allen was somewhat of a regular at his establishment. (The TV station used the phrase “fairly frequent customer.”)

“I would talk; he wouldn’t say much,” Underhill reportedly said of Allen. “He seems like a normal guy.”

“One of my servers was telling me that he wouldn’t speak much, Underhill added to WXIN.

New Photo Shows Man Reportedly Arrested in Connection with Delphi Murders as Neighbors React: 'I Would Talk; He Wouldn't Say Much'

 

[The Observer]

yes
Kelsey stated....
today is the day.

no if buts maybes.

Yes, and still people doubt whether LE has their perp. I mean I highly doubt LE has misled them.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Carter is trying to use words from a Christian-theme book when allegedly addressing the killer.

It might be merely Carter’s viewing own innate consciousness through the prism of religion. However: so many things match the description of the killer given in 2019 PC, that one might assume RA being a church-goer. Whether his aim is to blend in, or he truly views himself as a believer, is unclear. (It is interesting to know what church he used to go to, though).

MOO Whether successful or not, Carter is not incorrect to attempt to appeal to/connect with the murderer on a religious level. Use every tool in the box, guilt, reconciliation, final judgment, etc.