Found Deceased IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #25

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by KayElJay, Feb 22, 2017.

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  1. Damarna

    Damarna Well-Known Member

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    It's possible the video/audio was saved to the cloud. The physical phone is not necessary in all instances. (I'll also say I'm having a tough time keeping up so if this had been proven incorrect my apologies).

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  2. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [video=twitter;840349990803382272]https://twitter.com/jtduong/status/840349990803382272[/video]

    John Duong@jtduong 4h
    4 hours ago

    @EmilyWTHR speaks w/ Libby German's grandfather tonight on @WTHRcom. Latest in #Delphi investigation: http://bit.ly/2n8RtPc
     
  3. HoaZi

    HoaZi Member

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    The phrasing seems to indicate they physically have the phone.

    http://fox59.com/2017/02/21/officials-to-provide-update-in-murder-investigation-of-delphi-teens/

    http://wgntv.com/2017/02/22/murdere...of-suspect-police-release-audio-of-his-voice/

     
  4. KenzieK

    KenzieK Member

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  5. Momma2cam

    Momma2cam Well-Known Member

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    I just watched, too, and had similar thoughts. That seems to be more common than not as I read more and more cases. LE generally has contact with the suspect within the first couple weeks but they don't always know it at the time. They knew pretty early on in Sarah's case that he was a suspect.

    Sadly, this case doesn't seem so promising. I don't think they have a clue who he is. JMO.

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  6. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    They never really said they have the phone. They could have the data but no actual phone. It is hard to believe he would just leave the phone there with the victims. Jmo
     
  7. Alexsea

    Alexsea Well-Known Member

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    Not a mom, but I can see how this case is especially hard for anyone with daughters this age. Thanks for bringing your perspective.


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  8. Nonna Gigi

    Nonna Gigi New Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree with Wondergirl who posted this.

    Any of you who have the time to read this, it is truly remarkable. It is quite long, an article written for the St. Petersburg Times. Once I started reading it, I couldn't stop.

    There are some striking parallels of how the investigation into the murders of a mother and her two daughters in Florida in 1989 seems to be following this case of Libby and Abby. A reward was offered, lots of tips were called in, many branches of LE involved, they did use bill boards, there was an FBI profile done. This all took place in the early 1990's. At one point after the case had gone quite cold, they did receive a tip that started making the case; at that point LE decided to use billboards to get the evidence out there, hoping someone could provide the tip they needed. This went against all the training of LE that they should keep things close to the vest, but at this point in time they figured they didn't have anything to lose.

    There were no eye witnesses to these murders, just as there are no eye witnesses of Libby and Abby's. The prosecution had to present an avalanche of evidence to secure the conviction in 1994. They knew who committed the crime but did not bring him in right away; he was under surveillance for quite some time. They had to gather a lot of other evidence before they finally arrested him.

    IMO I believe LE here is doing the same thing. They may not have a suspect yet, but they are working on building the case as well as trying to identify the suspect. Because there is NO WITNESS to the actual murders (even the cell phone pic and audio are circumstantial evidence in a court of law - although we the public don't really know what all was recorded - I suppose there can be something of the audio that might be considered "eye-witness", like a voice match), if and when there is an arrest, the trial may be won by a massive amount of circumstantial evidence, gathered by all of these dedicated officers.

    In the Chandler trial, the jury took an initial vote to see where they all stood. All 12 voted guilty, and this took just 15 minutes, but they agreed to discuss it further and didn't actually produce a final verdict for an hour and a half. The prosecution left no reasonable doubt that Chandler had committed these murders. This was all done without a single eye witness.

    Oba Chandler was convicted in November of 1994 for the murders of Jo, Michelle and Christe Rogers, and was held on death row in a Florida prison until his execution on November 15, 2011, seventeen years after his conviction. He never had one visitor during his incarceration.

    I looked up additional info on this crime and found the following quote regarding the death sentence that was imposed. It was given by a juror to local media: "They need to do this swiftly. The man is a mutation of a human being and needs to be destroyed." Chilling words from someone who sat in that jury box, day after day, listening to evidence, watching the defendant sitting at the defense table, and observing him as he testified in the witness chair. If you read Angels & Demons, it will chill you and provide the background on how this juror was able to utter these words.

    I believe those of us here may well feel the same way this juror did about the murderer of these two innocent girls when that day comes. And please, don't take this as support for capital punishment and spawn a debate here. I am in no way endorsing CP. I only have brought it up as this was the outcome for this particular crime in Florida.

    As a side note, in 2014, an unsolved murder of a 20 yr old Florida woman in November 1990, was linked to Chandler, who at this time had already been executed. Detectives were assigned to review that cold case in August 2013. They sent the DNA that had been collected in 1990 to be re-evaluated to see if it matched anyone in the system. They got lucky because DNA held that long can degrade and be useless. Chandler's DNA (which was entered into the system in 1994) came back to be a complete match. (BTW, it took until February 2014 to get the results from the submission of the DNA in the fall of 2013.) So thankfully the family of that girl finally knew who was responsible for her death 23 years earlier and they at least know that he could no longer hurt another person.

    Again, the Angels & Demons article is first rate. I encourage every one to read it. I no longer am going to be impatient with how this case is progressing. We have to trust that LE is doing everything they can and when it counts, all the waiting will be worth it. IMHO
     
  9. St. Anthony2017

    St. Anthony2017 Jax2019

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    I am sorry. I meant he must have possibly suffered a psychotic break in order to be able to murder 2 children. Anxiety or depression would not have caused his rage in my opinion. Also sometimes mental health patients self medicate with controlled substances which can be lethal to them or others.
     
  10. Momma2cam

    Momma2cam Well-Known Member

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    There has been a lot of discussion about this that you may find interesting in prior threads. The overall census is conflicted. Even if they retrieved the information from the cloud, it would have come from her phone. We do not know still if they have the physical phone or not. I tend to think it was recovered in the water but that's JMO.

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  11. Jillrp

    Jillrp Former Member

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    I envision a split personality who lives a double life and takes these road trips unnoticed by his family. He is dangerous because he is living amongst us. He seems normal and maybe even was at his favorite bar or bowling alley tonight... This is why LE keeps saying to look for changes... They think he is an average "joe" just living 2 lives. He is the scariest kind. IMO!
     
  12. Hazelnutty

    Hazelnutty Innocent Bystander

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    Just stopping in to check on progress . May God bless and guide LE to this evil human. Praying for peace & comfort for family and friends of Libby & Abby.
     
  13. TeaTime

    TeaTime Well-Known Member

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    Well, if he is an RSO, I bet they will go get his DNA.
     
  14. kellala

    kellala Member

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    being busy until now. I did not read the previous posts and am not sure if someone has already mentioned this. But in case not, Katarina Bitterman, a 17 ys old Ohio girl was found safe. A 19 ys old boy was arrested. Apparently I guess they met online? I need to go back to the news to get more info.


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  15. TeaTime

    TeaTime Well-Known Member

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    Anyone recognize anything in this photo? Where is that silo/road/bridge/overpass?

    Now, I will edit without editing. Not a bridge, that is a piece of farm equipment! LOL They are searching behind a silo on someone's corn farm. But they are parked on roads?
     
  16. kirkassoc

    kirkassoc Well-Known Member

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    Today, I went to the DMV to renew my driver's license. There were five people in front of me, 4 men and 1 woman (I think she was the mother of an 18 yr old applying for license). As I stood there, I noticed one of the men had on jeans, a navy blue coat and a black sweatshirt under it (with a camouflage hat). He didn't look like the suspect, but I noticed him. I also noticed the one woman had on grey sweatpants with black stripes down the side (with pockets). I thought, "Isn't it strange that two of these five people stand out because of this case. I don't think I have ever been as observant as I have been lately. I think that's a good thing. It really pays to be aware of your surroundings and people you meet.
     
  17. kellala

    kellala Member

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    She was missing on March 4, and was found safe today in MA. That is kind of bold online date to me and no contact home for a week for a school girl? The whole community is searching for her, the ribbon, the men forces, even a vigil. I hope she've learned a lesson from this and put her parents in perspective next time.


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  18. Momma2cam

    Momma2cam Well-Known Member

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    I noticed the barbed wire fence. Could this be near the cemetery?

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  19. kellala

    kellala Member

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    Same here. I starts to notice my surrounds and people. I'm especially sensitive to truck drivers. In stop light, I take chances to observe them:)


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  20. kirkassoc

    kirkassoc Well-Known Member

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    Today, I went to the DMV to renew my driver's license. There were five people in front of me, 4 men and 1 woman (I think she was the mother of an 18 yr old applying for license). As I stood there, I noticed one of the men had on jeans, a navy blue coat and a black sweatshirt under it (with a camouflage hat). He didn't look like the suspect, but I noticed him. I also noticed the one woman had on grey sweatpants with black stripes down the side (with pockets). I thought, "Isn't it strange that two of these five people stand out because of this case?" I don't think I have ever been as observant as I have been lately. I think that's a good thing. It really pays to be aware of your surroundings and people you meet.
     
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