IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[Falling Down]

RE: DNA evidence.

I've wondered from about one week into this case if they have lifted and DNA evidence, at all. There's a possibility there was no sexual assault involved.

Just my $.02.

 

[pbnbcr]

Fairly new member here posting for the first time. I travel through Delphi about twice per weekend from mid-May through September each year as I'm heading to Lake Freeman. I've been doing this for a couple of years now and, to be honest, I never knew about the Monon High Bridge Trail until this unfortunate event happened. To my knowledge, there isn't even a sign on State Road 25 to indicate it's location. I am, however, familiar with the Delphi Historic Trails on the other side of town. Trailhead Park, which is one of the entrances to that set of trails, is just off of Old State Road 25 and one can see part of the trail from part of US421/State Road 39. I occasionally take my mountain bike on these trails and ride around for a couple of hours - for the most part, this trail is pretty secluded though it is, in some parts, closer to the town. That said, I was on that trail maybe 5 times last year and saw just a few people in total. Some times I would be out there for a couple of hours and wouldn't see anyone else. MOO is that a person who has traveled through the area even a few times would at least be aware of this trail.

Maybe I just don't pay attention that much, but, like I said, I've not seen a sign for the Monon High Bridge Trail off of the main highway. Perhaps it was well known to people outside the local community prior to this horrific event, but MOO is that BG is from the general area or has at least lived in the Delphi area at some point.

With the internet, though, I guess it's easy to search for public trails. If BG was a passerby, I guess all he'd have to do is pull up a map on his phone and he could find out about these trails pretty easily.

It is so difficult to really make out much with the photos of BG - they're just so grainy. So many middle aged men around here in Central Indiana dress like this - I'm in NO WAY saying RL has anything to do with this (I do not believe he does at all), but if you watch the video where he is showing his property to WRTV6, he's wearing relaxed fit jeans and a plain blue jacket with a hoodie underneath. BG is dressed so generically it will be very difficult to locate him by the picture alone. I'm not sure if this is just how BG dresses or if he wanted to blend in.

 

[haven71]

I'm also reposting this because it is so interesting, I did not realize the last thread was closing or I would have waited to post this:

A little earlier I posted a transcription of a telephone interview with the Sheriff. Between the comment below, and the other comment about the nightmare thing.. it sure makes me wonder what we don't know about what happened to the girls.

Excerpt from telephone interview (posted on the media thread):

SL: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Uhhmm that was the same obvious concept or thought process we had as well because um, you know, as I've (stumbles on words and says Excuse me) shared with other outlets, that we've had our share of, even double homicides, but they were elderly folks back in the 90s and it turned out to be, um, unfortunately, grandchildren involved in their deaths, and uh, so yeah, we were able to catch those pretty quick, but uh, umm, this one's just, it's, it's got a whole new, it's got a whole twist to it that, even I, as a 30 year veteran, have never seen.

Regarding the twist. Many if not most seem to think the twist is that the victim captured the killer's picture and voice recording on her cell phone. But, when he is talking about a twist above, he's implying that that's WHY it's so difficult to solve. The picture and voice recording are (or hopefully will be) an incredible HELP to the investigation, so I don't think he's referring to that as the twist that makes this case so hard to solve.

So IMO he chose the wrong word, OR there is really something very unusual about this crime that makes it much more complicated than when taken at face value.

 

[fruity]

I am assuming too that Liberty had an iPhone and it was linked to her iPad so maybe that is how the video of BG was recovered...

Mine is linked also...

Depending on her settings of course...

Making more sense that way why BG would leave phone with body...Maybe he didn't...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else has said, this thread moves so quickly.

All MOO and speculation of course.

IF we are to believe the FB post from a journalist saying that he/she saw clothes in the creek, it means that this must be the case. If their clothes were in the creek it's likely that the phone was in a pocket (in order for it to have recorded 'the stuff of nightmares') and was probably removed along with clothing. So it probably went into the creek as well. Being submerged usually destroys a phone, so I'm guess that IF is is the case, the video was recovered from the cloud it was synced with another device.

IMO.

 

[GangaMa]

For those of us searching for possible reasons for the double murders of Libby and Abby, the following murder that was solved earlier in February in Queens, NY, of Karina Vetrano brings out an interesting theory. She was out jogging on Aug 2, 2016 when she disappeared. Her body was discovered a few hours later.

Basically, the accused murderer 20 yr old Chanel Lewis, who was arrested for the murder, says he just snapped, saw her and starting beating her.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/06/jogger-murder-suspect-i-strangled-her-because-i-was-angry/

This is a very simple solution to a violent crime. No rhyme or reason. Lewis was angry, issues at home, he saw her and just went crazy. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Maybe something as simple as this could be the scenario for Libby and Abby's deaths. I'm not saying it was, just throwing this out there for thought. MOO

I don't have a link for this (sorry...) but I recall one of his friends/relatives saying that he (Chanel) didn't "like" the people who lived over in Karina's neighborhood, with the takeaway being that he was black and didn't like the white people (her neighborhood). Will he ever say that? NO. That looks like a hate crime, doesn't it? And there are other killers who have told LE over the years that they "don't know why" they killed another human, but just "snapped". It's probably one of the most shallow excuses for offenders' families to use - because it does not allow for the placement of blame. In fact, it allows for the blame to be shifted to the victim for "triggering" the "snap". I don't buy it.

 

[Nonna Gigi]

when i listen to this I hear "go down the hill" as well.
[video=youtube;H3FOw8DFP5w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3FOw8DFP5w[/video]

Very interesting.

My question is this: if this youtuber can manipulate the audio to reveal that "go" is part of the command that the suspect is saying, I've got to assume that LE/FBI have incredible equipment, maybe better than his, to do the same. Yet, when they released this clip, the say that the suspect is saying 3 words "Down the hill" and they've looped the audio so it repeats. Perhaps they "cleaned it up" to be clearer, and in doing so "created" the sound of "go" which is not part of the original audio in it's pure form. MOO

I have never heard the word go, until now after listening to your audio clip, so who knows.

 

[Mainemom76]

Agree, before and after those 3-4 words. Jmo

Or the girls asking "where are you taking us?" Or "why are you doing this?"

 

[Burnt Toast]

Thanks for posting. I've somehow missed this in the past threads. For a cop of 30 years to say that, I believe that "twist" is not just the cell phone video. I won't speculate what it is - because it's impossible to do so, based on the information we've been given.

LE said the "twist" is not the cell phone?

 

[liltexans]

But work continues to determine if any of about 100 other people named in the stream of tips may have been involved in the killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams.

"These are people where information has come in to us saying, 'Hey I think that looks like this person,'" he said. "Those are people we're still following up on, trying to check out their stories."


Police have been tight-lipped about details in the case, and have not disclosed how the girls were killed or whether investigators collected DNA from the crime scene.

Carroll County Prosecutor Rob Ives said about 70 subpoenas and three search warrants had been issued and served in connection with the case as of Tuesday.

While the month-old investigation has lost some officers to other cases, Riley said more than 40 officers, including FBI agents, are still working the Delphi killings every day.

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said investigators remain confident the murders will eventually be solved, but are still looking for the tip that will break the case.

"I'm operating from the standpoint where the next phone tip or email tip is the one we've been searching for. That's what we operate on, day in and day out," he said.

http://www.readingeagle.com/article/20170314/AP/303149522/1010

 

[Mainemom76]

This part has stuck with me as soon as the LEO stated it.

Something's up, and I'd argue it's another reason for the billboards in dozens of states, and the secrecy surrounding the audio evidence. A ritualistic killing, or something along those lines, would fit in there.

This is why people here keep bringing up BTK. Rader cornered/captured his victims in their own homes, then tortured, raped, murdered, mutilated, etc. them. These girls were cornered, marched to their deaths, and we can only imagine what horrors befell them..

This killer could very well be taunting law enforcement. "Look what I did, and I got away with it" kind of stuff. Sickening.

I just hope the killer has not made actual contact with LE like Rader did, and we don't know about it, yet.

Taunting? Could he have left a note? Or added his own message on the video/audio?????

 

[liltexans]

Fairly new member here posting for the first time. I travel through Delphi about twice per weekend from mid-May through September each year as I'm heading to Lake Freeman. I've been doing this for a couple of years now and, to be honest, I never knew about the Monon High Bridge Trail until this unfortunate event happened. To my knowledge, there isn't even a sign on State Road 25 to indicate it's location. I am, however, familiar with the Delphi Historic Trails on the other side of town. Trailhead Park, which is one of the entrances to that set of trails, is just off of Old State Road 25 and one can see part of the trail from part of US421/State Road 39. I occasionally take my mountain bike on these trails and ride around for a couple of hours - for the most part, this trail is pretty secluded though it is, in some parts, closer to the town. That said, I was on that trail maybe 5 times last year and saw just a few people in total. Some times I would be out there for a couple of hours and wouldn't see anyone else. MOO is that a person who has traveled through the area even a few times would at least be aware of this trail.

Maybe I just don't pay attention that much, but, like I said, I've not seen a sign for the Monon High Bridge Trail off of the main highway. Perhaps it was well known to people outside the local community prior to this horrific event, but MOO is that BG is from the general area or has at least lived in the Delphi area at some point.

With the internet, though, I guess it's easy to search for public trails. If BG was a passerby, I guess all he'd have to do is pull up a map on his phone and he could find out about these trails pretty easily.

It is so difficult to really make out much with the photos of BG - they're just so grainy. So many middle aged men around here in Central Indiana dress like this - I'm in NO WAY saying RL has anything to do with this (I do not believe he does at all), but if you watch the video where he is showing his property to WRTV6, he's wearing relaxed fit jeans and a plain blue jacket with a hoodie underneath. BG is dressed so generically it will be very difficult to locate him by the picture alone. I'm not sure if this is just how BG dresses or if he wanted to blend in.

Welcome to Websleuths!

:welcome:

 

[Whiskers16]

Forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else has said, this thread moves so quickly.

All MOO and speculation of course.

IF we are to believe the FB post from a journalist saying that he/she saw clothes in the creek, it means that this must be the case. If their clothes were in the creek it's likely that the phone was in a pocket (in order for it to have recorded 'the stuff of nightmares') and was probably removed along with clothing. So it probably went into the creek as well. Being submerged usually destroys a phone, so I'm guess that IF is is the case, the video was recovered from the cloud it was synced with another device.

IMO.

IMO "girls clothes" does not necessarily mean "all the girls clothes". Could be just a shirt or jacket which are clearly for a girl.

 

[whiskers]

Taunting? Could he have left a note? Or added his own message on the video/audio?????

I hadn't thought of that. Good thought pattern there.

That would be so twisted, but not far fetched. :gaah: I mean, look at things other killers have done and/or left behind.

 

[GGE]

OT I am jealous of those getting snow, though I hope people stay safe. I am a "summer-hater" out west, dreading eight months of heat ahead . One of those weirdos whose chronic health/pain worsens in hot weather instead of the opposite. Ugh...

I hope this gets you past that desire for snow, LOL - my car is under there somewhere next to the truck.



sorry all for OT, I'm done.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Does anyone know where Libby's parents are at? Where they reside? Why the grandparents were raising her? Are we allowed to ask these questions?

We are not allowed to sleuth her family. They are victims.

 

[KenzieK]

I really hope you are right! I want less suffering as much as possible with these poor girls.

I definitely agree with that!!

Honestly, I think some of us may have watched a few too many episodes of Criminal Minds. Apparently the double murder (and possible sexual assault) of two young girls isn't "spectacular" enough for some. These girls arrived at the trail alive, innocent and happy -- and they left the trail in body bags. That's plenty of reason for LE to be visibly shaken up. A month into the investigation they still have no useful leads. That's enough of a "twist" for me.

To each their own, but I refuse to let my imagination run wild and come up with the goriest and most "twisted" scenarios of how they may have been tortured or killed. This is real life. These are real girls. With real families.

 

[Ironmike84]

I feel like there is a lot of speculation here on things that we simply don't know. I've listened to that enhanced clip above, and I personally did not hear the "go" part of the phrase. Not saying it's not there. Just saying I did not hear it. To me, the inflection of his voice did not seem demanding at all. Almost sounded like he was answering a question. We also do not know when he made the statement either. We don't even know who made the statement. If he wasn't talking to the victims, then it for sure means that he was talking to an accomplice.

 

[OtisC]

IMO "girls clothes" does not necessarily mean "all the girls clothes". Could be just a shirt or jacket which are clearly for a girl.

Indeed. I don't think the statement included "the girls' clothes". That may be the implication, but, it is hard to know.

 

[GGE]

If he wasn't talking to the victims, then it for sure means that he was talking to an accomplice.

SBM - I had't even considered that. Very interesting thought....

 

[ab01]

But work continues to determine if any of about 100 other people named in the stream of tips may have been involved in the killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams.

"These are people where information has come in to us saying, 'Hey I think that looks like this person,'" he said. "Those are people we're still following up on, trying to check out their stories."


Police have been tight-lipped about details in the case, and have not disclosed how the girls were killed or whether investigators collected DNA from the crime scene.

Carroll County Prosecutor Rob Ives said about 70 subpoenas and three search warrants had been issued and served in connection with the case as of Tuesday.

While the month-old investigation has lost some officers to other cases, Riley said more than 40 officers, including FBI agents, are still working the Delphi killings every day.

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said investigators remain confident the murders will eventually be solved, but are still looking for the tip that will break the case.

"I'm operating from the standpoint where the next phone tip or email tip is the one we've been searching for. That's what we operate on, day in and day out," he said.

http://www.readingeagle.com/article/20170314/AP/303149522/1010

I have a feeling that they don't have any idea who BG is and are almost as stumped as the rest of us........I'm sure they are quite frustrated