Found Deceased IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #30

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Inthedetails

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As a second year law student you are telling me that evidence found on at a crime scene over a month after a crime is committed and not just any crime but highly publicized one with hundreds of people coming and going out of that exact location any of them with the opportunity to and means to leave something behind.... how many people could have come in and out of his house... he let someone use the bathroom while they were there paying their respects.. my god the defense on something like this is endless, to a point that it would be laughable...if I was a juror on a case and this search warrant was brought up I could never convict anyone based on evidence found at this crime scene today... IMHO never been to law school

I think it depends on what the evidence, where it was found, and how LE found out about it.

A blanket statement that anything found at this date is inadmissible is a bit too broad, imo. We don't know what they are looking for or what they found.

Too soon to say anything definitive, imo. (I've never been to law school but my kids say that I'm WebSleuth Certified....I think they mean I'm "certifiable" as in a bit crazy, but whatever.)

jmo
 

OnTheCase101

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Maybe he refused to a search of his property.

I'm not LE so genuinely asking: if you refuse a search, doesn't the refusal itself give probable cause for a search? Or at least presses LE to find a workaround to obtain a warrant quickly?


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finine

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It crossed my mind that he may be in protective custody?

I am wondering if the reason he was transferred out of Carroll County jail to Clinton County is because they are preparing to arrest someone (who would then be placed in Carroll County)?
 

Spellbound

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Wait, what?!? When was he asked to do that?

jmo

It was in the short piece on Inside Edition a few minites ago. NBC (channel 4 in my area of Michigan). I don't know if they replay them online later.
 

SomeoneElse333

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I've been having nightmares of trying to hide in a thicket of brambles while the killer is stomping after me.
You know that gif someone made of him with the two bridge photos? I keep seeing that when I look out into the back yard or on the porch. And he's walking super fast right at me, head down. <shriek>

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The above is just my opinion.
 

Kadoober

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Do we know what the parole violation for DUI was specifically?
I am looking at the guidelines, and wondering what could have led to his arrest. Bolded my me if I think it's a likely reason :)

Snipped from http://www.indianadui.pro/

Will I be placed on probation if I'm convicted of a Indiana DUI?

Yes. If you're convicted of an Indiana DUI / OWI offense you will be placed on probation for some period of time. You will need to comply with the following standard conditions of probation:

Obey all laws. (that's pretty broad, eh?)

Report any arrest or criminal charge to your Probation Officer within 24 hours.

Report to the Probation Department as directed.

Permit your probation officer to visit your home and elsewhere at reasonable times. (Maybe he refused? Could this have aided in PC for the SW?)

Abide by any curfew imposed.

Notify your Probation Officer in writing within 48 hours of any change in address or telephone.

Do not leave the State of Indiana without written permission of your Probation Officer.

Do not carry, use or possess any firearm, destructive device, or dangerous weapon if convicted of a felony. (Possible holster? Was his conviction felony level?)

Do not consume alcohol.

Do not consume, inhale or inject controlled substances unless prescribed to you by a physician.

Submit to drug / alcohol tests at your own expense at the request of the Probation Department or when otherwise directed.

Maintain or seek suitable employment or pursue a course of study or vocational training and shall attend GED or other classes as directed.

Notify your Probation Officer in writing of any changes in employment or educational status within 48 hours.

Successfully complete, at your own expense, and provide proof of completion of any substance abuse treatment, counseling, education and a victim impact program directed by your Probation Officer.

( ) by me. Just spinning my wheels.
 

Mercedes

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As a second year law student you are telling me that evidence found on at a crime scene over a month after a crime is committed and not just any crime but highly publicized one with hundreds of people coming and going out of that exact location any of them with the opportunity to and means to leave something behind.... how many people could have come in and out of his house... he let someone use the bathroom while they were there paying their respects.. my god the defense on something like this is endless, to a point that it would be laughable...if I was a juror on a case and this search warrant was brought up I could never convict anyone based on evidence found at this crime scene today... IMHO never been to law school

I guess I never heard that hundreds of people have gone into RL's house in the last month. IMHO, and I, too am a lawyer, and believe that recovered evidence could be admissible. Don't have time right now to go over possible scenarios.
 

ninij9

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What would a K9 be used for nearly 5 weeks after the fact?

It is possible they think this property could be linked to other missing people?
Maybe they're looking for BGs blue coat, hoodie and jeans.

Hey, anyone remember when they recovered those muck Boots? Does RL have any connection to the Chrysler location or the meat packing plant?

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alucardsdream

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As a second year law student you are telling me that evidence found on at a crime scene over a month after a crime is committed and not just any crime but highly publicized one with hundreds of people coming and going out of that exact location any of them with the opportunity to and means to leave something behind.... how many people could have come in and out of his house... he let someone use the bathroom while they were there paying their respects.. my god the defense on something like this is endless, to a point that it would be laughable...if I was a juror on a case and this search warrant was brought up I could never convict anyone based on evidence found at this crime scene today... IMHO never been to law school

I'm a lawyer but obviously different jurisdictions have different rules and all that fun stuff...that being said, yes, I do think anything they collect today, provided they did adhere to the limitations of the search warrant, will be admissible as evidence. BUT having it admitted as evidence in a trial is only one hurdle. You're going to have to have an expert witness testify about why it's important and how it relates to the defendant. A good defense attorney can take it from there. Just because it's admissible as evidence doesn't mean the jury has to believe it's good evidence.
 

kbsweet911

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Was it posted here earlier today that RL was moved late last night to another county jail? I can't find where I read that..


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liltexans

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[video=twitter;842840777021710340]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/842840777021710340[/video]

Rich Van Wyk&#8207;@VanwykWTHR 6m
6 minutes ago


Police searching Ron logans home may be here all night. #delphigirls Libby and Abby were found murdered on his property. #wthr
 

SilentRogue

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As a second year law student you are telling me that evidence found on at a crime scene over a month after a crime is committed and not just any crime but highly publicized one with hundreds of people coming and going out of that exact location any of them with the opportunity to and means to leave something behind.... how many people could have come in and out of his house... he let someone use the bathroom while they were there paying their respects.. my god the defense on something like this is endless, to a point that it would be laughable...if I was a juror on a case and this search warrant was brought up I could never convict anyone based on evidence found at this crime scene today... IMHO never been to law school

<mod snip>, what is enough to convict and what is admissible are two very, very different things.

Even so, the defense would have to weave a theory in which Mr. Logan was framed by planting evidence.

Whether or not that theory would find support within the evidence enough to stifle the burden of proof is something you nor I can reasonably speculate.


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kstephens98

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As a second year law student you are telling me that evidence found on at a crime scene over a month after a crime is committed and not just any crime but highly publicized one with hundreds of people coming and going out of that exact location any of them with the opportunity to and means to leave something behind.... how many people could have come in and out of his house... he let someone use the bathroom while they were there paying their respects.. my god the defense on something like this is endless, to a point that it would be laughable...if I was a juror on a case and this search warrant was brought up I could never convict anyone based on evidence found at this crime scene today... IMHO never been to law school
Jmo, I think your way off on this. Evidence is evidence no matter how much time has passed. Defense lawyers can try to cast doubt, but without some sort of proof of tampering or planting most jurors would believe LE.

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Inthedetails

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I'm not LE so genuinely asking: if you refuse a search, doesn't the refusal itself give probable cause for a search? Or at least presses LE to find a workaround to obtain a warrant quickly?


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If LE asks to search, you may say "yes" and then they search.

If you say, "no," then LE has to go to a judge to get a warrant. The judge will not sign a warrant without LE providing a good reason to search. A property owner saying "no" is not good enough reason for a judge to issue a warrant.

jmo
 

carbuff

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Several people have commented on why they didn't search the entire property right away.

Because they can't. Searching and warrants don't work like that.

LE has to have a specific reason to search a place. The immediate area of the crime can be searched, likely as far back as the "set of footprints" they followed (not sure of the legalities there) but they couldn't search the house and rest of the property unless they could say specifically what they expected to find there and why.

The standard for probable cause is often fairly loose, but just because the bodies were found half a mile away isn't likely to be enough.
 

Scout

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My guess would be a SAR dog trained to detect specific scent. For example, they could provide an item of clothing worn at one time by one of the girls, have the dog smell it, and then see if he is able to locate/follow that same scent anywhere in/on/near RL's house. OR they could be looking for blood evidence.

More likely to be tracking scent from killer on girls' clothing.
 

liltexans

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[video=twitter;842836838796660737]https://twitter.com/EmilyWTHR/status/842836838796660737[/video]

Emily Longnecker&#8207;@EmilyWTHR 25m
25 minutes ago

Logan in jail 4 probation violation 4 2014 OWI He wasn't supposed to drink & had suspended license. Police say he violated probation terms
 

Elley Mae

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To serve a search warrant, does someone need to be on the property to receive the warrant (relative, friend, lawyer)? I wonder if the K9 was trained to search for something in particular. Just curious....

In my area, I'm aware of K9s being brought in if it is believed the person being served might attempt to flee. Also, drug sniffing dogs might be used in certain circumstances. I'm just wondering what the specialty of the
K9 used today at RL's property might be....


No expert but it would depend on what the canine is trained to sniff out.
Some dogs have specialties, drugs, blood, human scent from an article of clothing, explosives, etc etc. Who knows. Jmo
 

SilentRogue

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Jmo, I think your way off on this. Evidence is evidence no matter how much time has passed. Defense lawyers can try to cast doubt, but without some sort of proof of tampering or planting most jurors would believe LE.

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Exactly. It's admissible. Whether the defense can create reasonable doubt based on the circumstances in which it was found is another story and is heavily reliant on the exact evidence found and the circumstances surrounding its discovery.


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