IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #84

[Vern]

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...e/news-story/28908ec6b693b0460913a84d05b93c13

I thought I'd post this MSM from a year ago that discusses fears in the community and use of SM, as everyone is talking about it. Several residents discuss their worries in the article.

Saw them earlier while utilizing my googlefu; one of the ladies lives quite close to the crime scene too.

 

[Arubagirl7]

Not sure I've ever seen this clumped together and discussed before ..maybe it has and I just don't recall , but what are all the Known Deviations From Normalcy in the days and hours prior to the girls being murdered?

1. The girls were up all night long the day before it happened. (Info from a public video BP shared of KG giving a speech a few days ago)
2. This was Abby's first time crossing the bridge.
3. There was no school that day.

What else ? And what Insight or Clues can be derived from these things?

Finding out that the girls were up all night February 12th-13th opened up new questions in my head. Now this is conjecture but wouldn't it be likely to say during all those hours in the middle of the night they probably used social media at some point? I don't know of any teens that age who go that long without touching their phone. Which makes me wonder who might they have been chatting with and what was said?


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...nows if LE would have shared with the public.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Surely LE would have investigated any possible catfishing angle?

They had Libby's phone early on so I really don't follow the speculation regarding this. The girls went to the trail to hang out and take photos for a couple of hours. This has been stated many times.

 

[AlixVR]

I fail to see that as anything beyond the sound advice it is. The thought that BG is a super anon stalking and killing on snap and musically boggles my mind. Any social media accounts 3 degrees of A&B has been scrutinized to the highest degree possible.

The feds cracked tor took down silk road and freedom hosting. It's not logical to think if BG found them through social media. They wouldn't know.

I don't necessarily disagree - I am sure that if there was SM communication, LE would know that, even if they haven't been able to trace it to an individual. Of course, they could know there was SM involvement and just haven't told the public beyond these sort of generalized statements. Given how reticent they've been about the details of this case, it is possible, though I don't know why they wouldn't just say. I mainly offered the link to back up the idea that they were thinking that SM was possibly involved, at least initially. I am sure they investigate this aspect any time there is a crime involving teens, given how active they all are on SM. And I'm sure that while they were investigating this aspect in A&L's case, they came across all sorts of concerning unrelated SM interactions involving other teens and felt it best to remind parents of the dangers of SM. I really don't have a strong feeling either way about whether social media was involved. I do think it is possible that BG was anonymously stalking one or both of them on SM. Libby, in particular, seems to have been a very vivacious and outgoing girl, and very active on multiple SM platforms. If there was SM involvement, I don't think they necessarily interacted with him intentionally. As with most aspects of this case, we have so little information it is difficult to form any sort of strong opinion on what happened that day. A lot of conjecture at this point. It is frustrating.

 

[mtnlites]

My daughter does have musically- majority of her friends as well. We are in a small town like Delphi— bit bigger. But my daughter and all of her friends know that anyone messaging you from accounts besides account you know, isn’t really who they say they are or someone messaging for the wrong reasons. We have had a few of the friends alert us moms when a random user messages - they are 10! Some have even deleted their own account because they felt it was off- I have hard time believing 13 year old girls wouldn’t know better as well-jmo

I agree. My 5th grade son and the majority of his friends all have musica.ly and Roblox accounts. As young as 9 and 10 now, the schools are having cyber information classes. They're teaching kids about online predators and what to watch out for. We were invited to a seminar at the school about it when he was 6. To give you a frame of reference, we live in one of the poorest counties in the entire country and there's only one elementary school, one middle, and one high in the entire county. We're usually the last ones to get a budget to do anything, ha ha, so I have to assume that others are doing it as well. I have a 14-year-old cousin in the Carroll County school system and I'm friends with the mother of one of the girls who's been publicly interviewed about Abby and Libby. I've spoken to both of them and they've said that their daughters had cyber classes about online predators.

The only thing I can kind of see is that if they innocently made a post or comment to someone and a third party oversaw it or heard about it.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

I agree. My 5th grade son and the majority of his friends all have musica.ly and Roblox accounts. As young as 9 and 10 now, the schools are having cyber information classes. They're teaching kids about online predators and what to watch out for. We were invited to a seminar at the school about it when he was 6. To give you a frame of reference, we live in one of the poorest counties in the entire country and there's only one elementary school, one middle, and one high in the entire county. We're usually the last ones to get a budget to do anything, ha ha, so I have to assume that others are doing it as well. I have a 14-year-old cousin in the Carroll County school system and I'm friends with the mother of one of the girls who's been publicly interviewed about Abby and Libby. I've spoken to both of them and they've said that their daughters had cyber classes about online predators.

The only thing I can kind of see is that if they innocently made a post or comment to someone and a third party oversaw it or heard about it.

Yes to the last part of your post. And I have never felt strongly about an IT/catfishing theory all these 13 months. I am just now giving it a tad more credit as a possibility since learning the girls were up all night. The strongest likelihood is BG had a stolen phone if there is an IT link iMO. My primary theory has always been and still remains he is not local, and is a serial killer and didn't use SM. But whenever I find new info or just a gut feeling, I stray off on other avenues to see where they take me

 

[Try2solve]

KG says in the video that A&L invited her to the bridge. That makes me think it less likely that the girls were meeting someone at the bridge. Surely KG would have known and shared this with LE. Although who knows if LE would have shared with the public.

Or Libby would've messaged the online person and told him to be cool, my sister's coming too, pretend we already know each other. I'm sure the online person traded a fake pic. Or maybe Libby was a bit nervous and Kelsi being there would've made her feel better. Libby was apprehensive enough to think to take the video.

 

[Arubagirl7]

Or Libby would've messaged the online person and told him to be cool, my sister's coming too, pretend we already know each other. I'm sure the online person traded a fake pic. Or maybe Libby was a bit nervous and Kelsi being there would've made her feel better. Libby was apprehensive enough to think to take the video.

Good point.

 

[SkipperKey3]

Or Libby would've messaged the online person and told him to be cool, my sister's coming too, pretend we already know each other. I'm sure the online person traded a fake pic. Or maybe Libby was a bit nervous and Kelsi being there would've made her feel better. Libby was apprehensive enough to think to take the video.

I think LE would have known very quickly if Libby had been messaging somebody online. Of course, we don't really know that much about what LE actually does know.

 

[Justice101]

In my humble opinion, highly unlikely.. if there was an electronic connection, LE would have arrested within 45 days

 

[FrostedGlass]

In my humble opinion, highly unlikely.. if there was an electronic connection, LE would have arrested within 45 days

It took LE/FBI 1 1/2 years to catch cyberstalker Buster Hernandez, aka Brian Kil. There are a number of links in the story. It's really sad how evil people can be so successful... at least for a while.

PLAINFIELD, Ind. (January 6, 2016) – On December 16, 2016, a Facebook user started posting violent threats targeting Plainfield High School.

Here is a timeline of the cyber threats that put the entire town on edge.

Wednesday, December 16, 2015
Threats first posted on social media

Thursday, December 17
Plainfield Community School Corporation closes schools one day before winter break

Friday, December 18
FBI takes lead in investigation
Threats made against The Shops at Perry Crossing and Carmike movie theater; mall is closed and theater is evacuated

Saturday, December 19
The Shops at Perry Crossing reopens with increased security

Sunday, December 20
Another threat is made against The Shops at Perry Crossing, Carmike movie theater, and Walmart; businesses stay open

Saturday, January 2, 2016
Facebook user “Brian Kil” posts threats as Plainfield students prepare to return to school

Monday, January 4
Plainfield students return to school
Many parents choose to keep children home

Tuesday, January 5
Three people taken in for questioning

Wednesday, January 6
Mother of one of the students who were questioned speaks to FOX59

Thursday, January 7
Parents set up private online forum

Monday, August 7, 2017
Authorities announce charges filed in the case. A suspect, 26-year-old Buster Hernandez, is arrested

Thursday, September 7, 2017
Indiana grand jury indicts Buster Hernandez on 26 federal counts

http://fox59.com/2016/01/06/timeline-of-plainfield-cyber-threats/

 

[catastrophe_]

Wow!! that's scary. I do not think any teenager should be allowed to use an app like that. MOO

KIK is a dangerous app because it is anonymous. You don’t need to link your phone number to your KIK account, and you don’t need to use your real name. Anyone on KIK can pretend to be whomever they want to be. There is no way of determining whether the person you are messaging is the age and sex they claim to be, and your location can be tracked by users of KIK unless you disable location.

This is vaguely reminding me of the older, and now-defunct online chat instant-messenger service that was very popular for a time, and many, many people used to rely on to talk with each other with before all these other "Social Media" sites exploded; this is including myself, where for a few years of time even, I had running this software installed and running on my computer 24/7, some of you may recall a service called AIM or AOL Instant Messenger.

It's no exaggeration when I say that almost every single one of my closest peers happen to use, and sometimes then rely on AIM for their friend-to-friend communication throughout the time that I was in middle school, especially and even some of high school, too... back before Facebook and cellular-phone texting took over completely :crying:
Though since graduating HS in 2009, almost all of those 'chatting friends' of mine seem to now have either faded away, moved on, some have even passed on, or just gone on in to living their own destinies (Such is life, eh-? le sigh :sigh: and so now I honestly don't really even care or try to use social media, much at all anymore to 'talk to people')

But back when we first got a dial-up connection installed at my house in 2003, being at the age of twelve, a little late compared to friends at the time, but I got my first computer to learn to use and play games on in '98 at the age of 7...
So even though with me being very young when I received "the gift of the Internet", the rule and point was always made very poignant and kept abreast that I NEVER could repeat my full name, address, phone number, school name, hometown even, online anywhere or to anyone, for "personal security purposes"... (I was raised by my grandparents after the age of 4, and grandpa was a lawyer, so I can just imagine that essentially everything about me being on and using the Internet had to be a terrorizing thought for them :giggle: ; it was still drilled in to my head about where I should and have to draw the line as far as when chatting online with the familiar acquaintances and friends I had, versus the random strangers that could, and would pop up from time to time wanting to talk... and what that would mean as far as the 'limits of information' that I shouldnt expose of myself to mystery-usernames (Anyone remember, "What's ur A/S/L??")

I recall even at one point I had AIM hooked up to send my IM's (Instant Messages) to my *new* Nokia 3310 cell phone...

 

[ClementineK]

I'm not real sure what to make of this information. The fact that they were up all night doesn't strike me as odd. My 11-year-old had a sleepover last night and they were up all night. When he spends the night with his little buddy, they're sometimes still up when I go to pick him up the next day. So I don't see that as odd. Any social media activity that they may have had would be easily traceable. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the predator accessed their social media accounts after the fact and erased things. It could still be found. Like they say, the internet is forever. I once deleted a post on Facebook by accident. I didn't realize I'd done it until several weeks later. I contacted FB and they went back in and retrieved it for me. (It was an important one with information I didn't want to lose.) As I posted above, even with KiK, the information would be accessible on their end, even if the other user was anonymous.

It seems like if social media or the computer at all, there would be some kind of talk about that from LE or the families. But then, we're getting such little information anyway that it's hard to say.

I don't see it as being unusual that they were up all night either. That's exactly what I'd be doing at their age with having a day off the next day. It just makes me think that being teenage girls they were probably on social media a lot the night before the murders since they were awake. I'm sure that LE would have been able to check out any social media conversations they had, too.

Mostly I still lean towards thinking that the girls were random targets and were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[ClementineK]

It sounds like we were probably about the same age when people started using AIM, ect. I don't know much about the KIK, Snapchat, ect. apps because I'm probably among the last of my friends to grudgingly join in with the latest social media apps.

Remembering the era of AIM and Yahoo Messenger I do remember the amount of creeps online asking the a/s/l thing. I got the same speeches about not giving out personal details to strangers...I didn't listen though... When I was Abby and Libby's age I never thought anything would happen to me. I don't get the random messages on Facebook but you talking about the older messenger programs reminded me of how many creeps there were watching for girls online. Not knowing KIK, Snapchat, ect. I don't know what it's like on there.

I don't get the feeling that they were targeted, and BG just doesn't look to me like the kind of guy or the right age to be using social media apps, but I'm sure I could be wrong.

 

[ClementineK]

^ I was replying to Catastrophe but I did it wrong and didn't include the quote.

 

[BIC]

Surely LE would have investigated any possible catfishing angle?

They had Libby's phone early on so I really don't follow the speculation regarding this. The girls went to the trail to hang out and take photos for a couple of hours. This has been stated many times.

Do you really believe we know every angle LE is investigating? Sometimes teenagers tell half truths in order to do what they want. I’m not saying A & L did this, but it can’t be ruled out AFAIC, at least not with the little facts we know about what happened. IMO

 

[heartgoesout]

I wonder if there are any survailance cameras from Libby's house to the drop off point? I guess it's possible someone could have followed them from the house?

 

[Peace777]

I don't see it as being unusual that they were up all night either. That's exactly what I'd be doing at their age with having a day off the next day. It just makes me think that being teenage girls they were probably on social media a lot the night before the murders since they were awake. I'm sure that LE would have been able to check out any social media conversations they had, too.

Mostly I still lean towards thinking that the girls were random targets and were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

About the being up all night long bit. I wonder if either MP or BP told them to get to bed during the day why let them go roam around in the woods? When or how did BP find out they had been up all night also? They'd be very tired you would think. JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Do you really believe we know every angle LE is investigating? Sometimes teenagers tell half truths in order to do what they want. I’m not saying A & L did this, but it can’t be ruled out AFAIC, at least not with the little facts we know about what happened. IMO

Wrt to the Internet/phone angle, yes I do believe we know FBI's investigating powers and I don't believe the girls were secretly planning to meet anyone or could have outwitted or kept it from the FBI.
:cow:

 

[Shiressleuth]

About the being up all night long bit. I wonder if either MP or BP told them to get to bed during the day why let them go roam around in the woods? When or how did BP find out they had been up all night also? They'd be very tired you would think. JMO

When Libby's mum texted her that morning she said L was still in bed so they must have gone to bed at some point and had a bit of a lie in.