IN IN - Amiah Robertson, 8 months, Indianapolis, 15 Mar 2019 #2

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by yrmfp, Mar 19, 2019.

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  1. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I realize this, absolutely, I was just wondering the same as what @Tillicum asked in the last thread:

    Tillicum
    Well-Known Member
    So why did the neighbor say she saw Amber carrying Amiah on Friday night?
     
  2. CSIDreamer

    CSIDreamer Well-Known Member

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    You're right. But correcting it privately with LE is a whole 'nother matter than telling a news station.
     
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  3. Pax10

    Pax10 Member

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    I didn't see the part about the reward, but I'm wondering if they waited until they felt confident they had a suspect before it was offered to avoid getting total nonsense. At least this way, the fake tips will be more likely to be about one person only
    This was what I guessed (after the press conference) might have been a reason for the delay in reporting. I don't know, obviously, but it's a possibility. I think with the new information on the ex taunting the mom and giving police bad information, it might be worth giving the mom the benefit of the doubt again. MOO
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  4. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    From all that we have learned about RL, it does seem that he is controlling, manipulative, and volatile.
    Since they argued over the paternity of the baby, I'm assuming he thought himself to be the father. It may be that Amber accepted him as a father figure to the child. In her interview with Jefferson, she describes Hull as the father of her son. She doesn't mention him as being the baby's father. It's possible that she feared what RL might do if he heard her imply that he was not the baby's real father.
    When RL found out that Amber was planning on getting back together with LH, I think he used the most powerful thing he could use to control her, which was keeping the baby from her.
    Maybe it was normal for him to have the baby for days, or even a week at a time.
    So he uses the baby as a pawn to get what he wants. He keeps trying to get Amber to meet him alone. He keeps telling her he will tell her where the baby is if she will come by herself.
    Amber stated in her interview that she was scared to meet him alone.
    I wonder if she told him she would meet him alone but when RL got there he discovered Hull there with her. They got into an argument, he side-swiped Amber with his vehicle and took off in a rage.
    Maybe at that point he harmed the baby. Or maybe she was already deceased.
    I hope LE gets to the bottom of this soon so there can be some justice for this poor child. It's unfortunate that so many involved have not been completely forthcoming. If they had, little Aliah might have been saved. Imo
     
  5. Tillicum

    Tillicum Well-Known Member

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    I have since decided not to believe anything completely unless LE said it. That's normally what I do but this time I fell for it and let it cloud my judgement.
     
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  6. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    If RL had the investigators confused and frustrated trying to figure out all the places where Amiah might be, imagine his ability to manipulate and confuse Amber, not to mention his intimidation.
    If he is capable of killing a child, he may not hesitate to kill any of the adults in this situation. Imo
     
  7. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    I noticed this as well yesterday during the composition of the timeline (ow my head)...

    In the infinite death cases we’ve seen here, it seems the public is always informed when a recovery is made; however I think there was one case here where that was not the case? Maybe I saw that on Forensic Files, idk. My point, I think that if they would have found Amiah, an announcement would have been made, unless there is some major strategic reason to keep this private, but I can’t think of what that would be. Maybe someone else has an idea about what this could be, should that be the case (which I doubt, moo).

    We DO know that LE does whatever they need to do strategically to get the upper hand—-this includes not always showing their cards in order to protect the integrity of the investigation as well as outright fibbing if they need, moo. I believe the technical term used is “ruse”, jmo.

    To Ruse Or Not To Ruse » CriminalJusticeDegree.com

    Harvard Law Review
    Bait, Mask, and Ruse
    Technology and Police Deception
    https://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/bait-mask-and-ruse/
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  8. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I am still unsure of the neighbors account. Either she was mistaken or all the other witness accounts are not accurate as to when they last saw the baby.
    It's best to go by what LE believes, as they know a lot more than we do. Imo
     
  9. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Let’s go by what LE has said re: the date last seen.

    Out of simple curiosity though as related to criminology and witnesses in general, I do wonder what that “witness account” was all about—-was she being purposefully deceptive, or just honestly mistaken? I’m always so curious about the validity of witness accounts as they can really impact a case and can do much damage if they turn out to be false. Perfect example is the Beltway Sniper and the media/public frenzy they ran with about the vehicle of interest being a “white box truck”.

    Then there’s Oprah’s old experiment she did way back in the day where she staged a purse snatching for the guests to see while they were waiting in line to get into her show. Turns out, their descriptions of the perp varied immensely.

    What if the neighbor’s account was taken seriously by a jury? And iirc, her account was widely believed.

    These kinds of things scare me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  10. floridagrrl

    floridagrrl Be kind.

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    And I greatly apologize Mods, truly, I knew that would be deleted and we certainly keep you busy enough.
    But damn it felt good writing it again.
     
  11. JustJes

    JustJes Active Member

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    She might have corrected it with LE which could explain why they said she is cooperating. I think her not talking to the press is best. Imagine all the people who could have seen Amiah or RL between the 9th and 15th but haven’t come forward because the confusing reports led them to believe she wasn’t missing yet. Like I said before, mom is not very sophisticated with her communication, in my opinion, and could be unintentionally causing confusion in her attempts to help.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  12. LaborDayRN

    LaborDayRN Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, drug use can also cause similar issues. I think it's fair to speculate that that may be the issue in this case. I also believe there are other intellectual impairments involved.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  13. book-thinker

    book-thinker Well-Known Member

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    MissMarlowe thank you

    Last night, I decided to deleted my post on this very subject.
    I didn’t want to offend anyone regarding media coverage on a missing 8 month old girl and poor families. Disturbing to see baby Amish receive little coverage by the media.
    As a grandparent, I’d screaming bloody murder to media outlets and LE in locating my missing granddaughter.
     
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  14. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    Hi there LaborDayRN :wave: I always love to see you here, especially when there’s a baby involved. If there’s a post I’m unsure about from a neonatological or pediatric aspect, and you “like” it, I’m like “oh ok that must be true if LaborDayRN agrees, I’ll like it too” :) Lol

    Now what was I saying...

    ETA:
    DBM
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  15. LaborDayRN

    LaborDayRN Well-Known Member

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    Awwww.....that's so sweet Margarita! Thank you for that. I certainly come up very short compared to the in depth information you post. I've been praying overtime for this sweet wee one (and for justice too)
     
  16. GreyhoundMom

    GreyhoundMom MostlyNuts

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    Hmmmmmmm. Right. So she just idly waited around not freaking out about someone keeping her daughter from her? Not buying it.

    I did not say she was sitting idly by, not freaking out ... I simply said she may have waited to call the police because she thought Amiah was with boyfriend and when he calmed down he would return her.
     
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  17. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    ITA! Barring some sort of guilty change of heart the only incentive for a perp to give up the location of a body is some sort of plea deal. IMO that's the best use of a death penalty law - 'fess up or go to Death Row.

    I think the biggest factor is time. In many cases we've seen here CODs coming back as undetermined have also stalled out murder charges - Jesse Wilson is an example. So I guess a murderer hopes the body will never be found or if it is that too much time has passed for the DA to make a strong case of intentional murder - Lonzie Barton is an example.

    However, RL doesn't seem capable of thinking in terms of eventual punishment; like MassGuy said, getting away with it is priority 1 so right now it's probably all he's thinking about. IOW it's less like a game of chess and more like Chutes and Ladders IYKWIM. MOO.

    I'm just sorry RL was given a week's lead in covering his crime (assuming he did it) because of the misdirection from others.
     
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  18. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    I was actually thinking how the Indiana MSM outlets are probably pretty well practiced by now after Abby’s and Libby’s very high profile case. I’ve probably posted hundreds of articles from the main sources quoted here. I think the Silver Alert was crucial in bringing Amiah’s case to the public eye. Hopefully, Johnny, coverage in your area is improving.

    Which reminds me we still need to sort out this river business as you mentioned.

    Question for LE:

    There have been many news articles which have mentioned both Eagle Creek and the White River. Could you please clarify if both of these waters have been searched, or not, and to what extent?

    Wait that reminds me I need to bring @Kadoober ‘s transcript forward, standby, I’m specially looking for a quote which used the word “expanded”—

    ETA:

    From @Kadoober ‘s awesome transcript (thank you!):

    “On the 20th we got a tip, uh, that at McCarty and White River uh, there were some child belongings that may or may not have belonged to Amiah. We went out there, did a search, we enlisted the help - there were some items real close to the water, we enlisted the help of IFD and we collected some items from there, and we’ll let Detective Burkhardt kind of talk about what that did or didn’t do in this investigation.”

    (2:49) “Um, the 21st? We expanded that search a little bit, went a little bit down stream, there was no additional information but it was just uh, to be thorough. On the 22nd there were a group of community members, unsolicited from us, that also went out and helped.“
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  19. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    Dear Kadoober,

    Thank you once again very much for transcribing. Bringing this forward in text form so we can internally refer to and quote:

    Press Conference Amiah Roberston, 3/23/2019
    Press Conference Regarding the disappearance of Amiah Roberston, 3/23/2019
    By @Kadoober for WS

    Police Chief Bryan Roach:
    “Well thank you for coming, to discuss, the case of AMiah Robertson. Uh, it’s been a week, last Saturday was uh, we were notified of a missing person. Uh, I want you to know that we are here today, uh, because we’re frustrated, and quite frankly, angry, uh, because of misinformation, and lack of information, and uh, lack of cooperation from those most closely involved. This is a 8 month of child and I think all of us would agree that somebody knows her whereabouts. And the detective, who you will hear from pretty soon, asked for this, so this is not about just, uh, giving the media information, this is, this is a need that we have and so that’s why we’re here. Let me give you a little bit of the backstory, uh, and, and then we’ll let Detective Burkhardt kind of explain some of the details and then we’ll answer any questions.”

    “If you remember last Saturday, on the 16th, our Missing Persons was notified of a missing girl, 8 months old, uh, Amiah Robertson. That date is significant, and you’ll know why, uh, when you listen to the detective. So last Saturday we were notified. Missing persons, because of their expertise, and experience, figured out quickly, through their investigation, that this was a little different than most missing persons cases, of a small child. They enlisted the help of our homicide investigators. So we’re telling you now, this is a homicide investigation. And it has been, all week. Uh, since early on, because things just didn’t add up. Um, I think it’s significant that, uh, that occurred quickly, because it gives you an idea of some of the frustrations that we’ve had in this case. On the 19th, uh, we let you all know, because we wanted to enlist the help of the community, because we just didn’t have that much information. Also on the 19th, if you remember, there was a Silver Alert that was done, we didn’t have enough information to do an Amber Alert, but a Silver Alert was done. Also on the 19th a search warrant was served, at a residence in order to gain physical evidence, in hopes of gaining physical evidence, and also, doing some additional interviews, to figure out what happened to uh, uh, Amiah.”

    “On the 20th we got a tip, uh, that at McCarty and White River uh, there were some child belongings that may or may not have belonged to Amiah. We went out there, did a search, we enlisted the help - there were some items real close to the water, we enlisted the help of IFD and we collected some items from there, and we’ll let Detective Burkhardt kind of talk about what that did or didn’t do in this investigation.”

    (2:49) “Um, the 21st? We expanded that search a little bit, went a little bit down stream, there was no additional information but it was just uh, to be thorough. On the 22nd there were a group of community members, unsolicited from us, that also went out and helped. I want to thank them, I want to thank all of you, uh, I also want to thank the number of detectives, that have uh, been working day and night on this case. And all those tips that have come in. I’d like to be mindful, that those tips, uh, should not be conjecture of what we are doing, or should be doing, or what people think we should be doing, because that interferes with our investigation but if you have any information at all, please provide that to us. Uh, up here with me is Lieutenant Bruce Smith, along with Detective Jeannie Burkhardt, and uh, our Major Turner from Investigations. So right now I”d like to introduce Jeannie Burkhardt.”

    (3:47) [Jeannie Burkhardt]
    “Thank you for coming. I’m going to give a brief statement, touch on a couple of things that the Chief spoke about, and then Lieutenant Smith will answer any questions you may have.”

    “Um. I’m gonna just start out by saying on March 9th, at approximately 1:15PM Amiah Robertson was last seen alive, and well with Robert Lyons in the 200 block of South Holmes, Robert Lyons was driving a 1996 Izuzu Rodeo, maroon in color. It is in poor condition. Robert stayed on the Southwest side of Indianapolis until 10:00PM, when he returned back to the mother, Amber Robertson, alone, without Amiah. Amber gave permission for Amiah to stay with the babysitter, until the following morning. Um, the babysitter and the other witnesses, aw Robert leave her house at 1:15 with Amiah. Robert has told family, friends, and myself, where Amiah should be, alive and OK. All of these locations and homes, were checked, with full cooperation from residents. Some places she was said to be by Robert do not exist. Since March 10th Robert Lyons has taunted Amber Robertson about Amiah’s whereabouts. I’m asking the public to come forward, if they saw Robert or Amiah on March 9th, or any day thereafter. On March 9th, he was in the area of Rockville Road, and Mickley (sp?) Avenue, for an extended period of time. So if you live in that area, I would ask that you try to remember if you saw anything suspicious, if you saw Robert, or Amiah, or this truck. Um, quickly I’d like to say as far as the location site on McCarty and Tipp streets, the items that were found on the bank have been identified as belonging to Amiah. So, I will pass it on to Lieutenant Smith.”

    (5:59) [Lieutenant Smith]
    LS: “Questions?”

    Q: “Um, I guess the mother told us that the items were located involved some clothing and the carseat, is that accurate?”

    LS: “Um, I, you know, just, for the integrity of the investigation I don’t think we’ll talk specifically about what items we did find, but we have confirmed, some of the items did belong to Amiah, or Amiah’s family.”

    Q: “Um and, it seems to reason that you guys suspect Robert as doing something wrong in this case, are you guys speaking directly to him in this, is this why you guys called this today, or are you hoping to soften his heart a little bit?”

    LS: “Well we certainly are speaking to anybody who would have information and if this, these, if this process here would bring him forward with accurate information as to what happened to Amiah, that would be great but, this is really for anybody who has information that has not come forward yet.”

    Q: “Do you know where Robert Lyons is now?”

    LS: “Uh, no.”

    Q: “When was the last time you saw him, or talked to him?”

    LS: “Um, I’m not real sure, I know he was released on a separate, unrelated charge, um, about 3 or 4 days ago.”

    Q: “Lieutenant, put this into context, she went missing or was last seen alive and well on March 9th, she wasn’t reported missing until a week later. Is that concerning in this situation?”

    LS: “Well it’s very concerning, and uh, you know I think that that has led to some of the difficulties we’ve had in tracking down exactly what happened.”

    Q: “You mention your frustration with the family I know you spoke about Robert so the mother, has she been in contact with Robert has she told you all anything?”

    LS: “Well, I don’t know if we specifically said the family we were frustrated with, I think we’re just frustrated with those people that may have had some information early on, and some of that information that we were given was misleading. There are certainly people that were, right away were providing good information, and there were some that weren’t.”

    Q: “Is that just Robert, or are there other people specifically that you guys have a feeling aren’t telling you (trails off I can’t make it out)”

    LS: “You know, I guess it’s, the big mystery here is um, what, we don’t know what we don’t know and uh, there are people we’ve taken statements from, that we’ve been able to verify the things that they’ve said, and certainly there are things that are unverified, so, um, as far as who those specific people are, you know, they know who they are and we ask that they come forward or anyone else that may have information come forward.”

    Q: “Is Robert officially a person of interest?”

    LS: “He is certainly a suspect in her disappearance.”

    Q: “How do charges like that get filed, I mean, someone loses an infant child, you’ve spoken with them, are there criminal charges that he faces if, if the child is found? Is that we hasn’t been arrested yet, or have there been no arrests I’m just curious...”

    LS: “Well, so, with, part of what besides looking for, verifying facts, we’ve been in communication with the Marion County prosecutors office, who ultimately decide what charges would be filed and who they would be filed against, um, you know, at this point, um, her disappearance is criminal, um, and, so, the persons responsible for that would be the ones we look to and hold accountable.”

    Q: “********* relationship with Robert Lyons what else do we know about his relationship with this family other than just… boyfriend.”

    LS: “Um, you know that, that’s the extent of it.”

    Q: “*******relationship? How long had they ****”

    LS: “You know I’m, I’m uncertain. It’s something that I’m sure that we have, I just can’t speak to that.”

    Q: “Can you guys provide a little more clarity on I guess your timeline of dealing with Robert? My understanding was that he was arrested at some point between the 9th, and you said getting released 3 days ago, and has he not been since seen at all since that time, or”

    LS: “So...”

    Q: “When was he arrested?”

    LS: “I believe it was the 16th or 17th. 17th, I”m sorry.”

    J. Burkhardt: “HE was arrested on the 17th on a domestic related charge, based on that evidence having nothing to do with the, with what we’re talking about now. Um, he was released. Um, and as far as knowing his whereabouts, you know this investigation is ongoing, I just do not feel comfortable talking about what I’m doing as far as.. Robert Lyons.”

    Pick back up at 10:29


     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  20. Beneath.the.pale.blue.sky

    Beneath.the.pale.blue.sky Well-Known Member

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    I know it's been stated here before, but this case of sweet baby Amiah reminds me too much of Caylee. I've digging through old and new WS threads regarding Cayleen Anthony. From questions of paternity, the false allegations regarding Caylee and Amiah being with sitters, the unknown whereabouts far too long before a MPR was filed, etc. It is just insane.
     
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