IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[al66pine]

Non-Disclosure re Term of (Possible) Settlement? re (Threatened or Actual) Civil Case?

....All attorneys involved may be busy for a while. If they all go into a room and settle this thing, will we ever know the outcome or will it be one of those "undisclosed terms of agreement" or whatever it is called? Again, what a sad, sad mess.

@borndem Another good question.
Short answer:
"If they all go in a room" we may never learn outcome.
Longer, tedious answer:
It's possible thru atty Winkleman, parents will file a wrongful death lawsuit against cruiseline, or atty may just continue making a lot of noise, giving interviews & pressers and threatening to file in court.
Typically the only way the public is made aware of the ultimate outcome in a civil action for wrongful death, is if it goes to trial and a verdict is reached.
W or without lawsuit being filed, if/when parents & cruiseline reach a pre-filing or pre-trial agreement, possible that the terms will not be publicly announced. Depends on what the parties agree to. The settlement agreement documents may run several pages (or more), but the documents themselves are not typically filed w the court, as part of the court record. Instead a short (one page, w a few paragraphs) document signed by the partiies/atty's.simply says an agreement has been reached and moves for dismissal of the lawsuit. So public would not know $ amt of settlement, if any.
Jmo.

Hoping one of our attorneys weighs in to give insight to why a settlement agreement in this situation may or may not be made public.
And to correct or clarify ^ post as appropriate. TiA.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

How about knowing that Grandpa had been drinking but let him look after Chloe anyway so they could do something else? Or, Grandpa takes medication that causes drowsiness? Either of these would be cause for concern that someone is not capable of properly caring for a busy toddler.

Please check Just a Heads Up, BetteDavisEyes.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Winkleman continuously describes "a wall of windows" and suggests that a portion of the wall had a "hole". This is a crude and erroneous remark that makes it sound like a major construction flaw rather than an open window. If there was a "wall of windows", why couldn't Chloe have banged on any of the windows, the lower ones in particular? Why did Grandpa happen to lift Chloe up to the only open window? Winkleman can spin this any way he wants, but he will never convince me that Grandpa thought there was glass there.

Maybe he’s testing out his trial theme statement. Wall of Windows. Nice alliteration. Is a wall of something stronger than a row of the same thing? A ton of bricks is heavier than a ton of feathers.
The Art of Deception.

A Hole in the Wall. For the lawyer, “a major construction flaw” as you so clearly envisioned, makes a compelling argument that RCCL was at fault. That is his point. His strategy. Like a magician who can saw a person in half. Bc they are masters of illusion.

But I kind of like “A Hole in the Wall” as a small joint, bar, restaurant, or off the beaten path. A warm and fuzzy feeling.
hole in the wall
But check out the part where it says in USA where alcoholic drinks are sold illegally. Huh? This must come from the Prohibition Era. A little dated. I digressed.
Anyway, depending on how a South Florida jury understands hole in the wall, lawyer better try for a different word or words to describe a WINDOW that was OPEN for anyone with all their senses to notice that it was OPEN. And not a place to seat a toddler. Or a drink for that matter. That drink could fall out through the OPEN WINDOW and hit someone/something below it. If my memory serves me a bit, I believe that a falling object from that height could kill or injure. Physics. Penny falling from the top of a skyscraper. It accelerates and then that speed with weight, multiplied times distance or whatever formula used etc. Any physicists out there? Math people? Engineers?

Not my job to help the
lawyer try to win his case with a better word. IMHOO, he’s testing out trial techniques through the media. Gauging the responses/comments on MSM. From those comments, he’ll know the type of juror he needs to select. A juror who can be led to believe SA thought there was a solid wall of windows. And the type to avoid at any cost. Those analytical souls who would never believe SA didn’t know the WINDOW was OPEN.

 

[mickey2942]

Hmm, jury pool from Puerto Rico on Sal Anello trial. Conservative, family oriented. He should take a plea.

Jury pool, South Florida on family claim against RCCL. Very conservative, generally older folks. Won't go very far.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

"Act of Games"? Meaning?
. @IceIce9 Agreeing w your post, re general meaning of "act of games" phrase.
And sounds like a phrase of ESL speaker. Or maybe a phrase by translation software.

@BetteDavisEyes A literal translation, but sounding stilted to native English speakers.
Act = a movement, action, or step.
Games = a form of play for fun or amusement.

Was this for Chloe's amusement? Being lifted up or rocked up. Whee.
Or for G'father's amusement? Like above, scare the child like I'm gonna drop you.

I'm trying to imagine how it happened.
G'father holding toddler at chest/shoulder level, and rocking her, first just toward window, back to holding her against him, then w her face out window, back to holding her against him, then further out the window (perhaps to her waist?), then tragedy.
Or maybe not like that at all. IDK.
jmo.

Check this out. One of definitions of juegos is GAMBLING.
Check out the translation for "juegos" on SpanishDict!
Ok. Who has the ORIGINAL Spanish language words used about SA playing games with Chloe.
Act of games probably means playing a game. Playing is the act. BUT. Original language article.
If I can’t figure it out, my daughter in law is PR family. I’ll get her to translate it every possible way that Mr. Román may have meant it by translating from the original Spanish language release.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Here is an article that mentions “an act of games”

Do you have the untranslated version of this article? The link? That would be great.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we going to find out very little at the upcoming hearing? Aren't they just going to read the charges and ask for a plea, which is obviously going to be Not Guilty, Your Honor. Then at that point they'll set a trial date for sometime well into 2020. And then back to radio silence. I don't feel like anyone is saying anything....aside from the ever spinning Mr. Winkleman, not the investigators, not witnesses or viewers of the video, and definitely not RCCL.

I can't help but fear that until we get some more facts, we're just going round in circles with conjecture as to what occurred. I'm keeping an eye on it, but honestly, if I were to place a bet, I still would bet that there will be some sort of plea deal, because the family is going to not want to risk the video being shown in court during a trial. Same goes with any lawsuit they may be pursuing against RCCL. <modsnip>

 

[IceIce9]

Do you have the untranslated version of this article? The link? That would be great.

Toddler who fell to death 'from grandad's arms' on cruise ship is pictured

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Toddler who fell to death 'from grandad's arms' on cruise ship is pictured

Thanks. But I’m searching for the Spanish language edition that uses the Spanish words for acts of games. Trying to translate act of games by reading it in Spanish first.

 

[IceIce9]

Thanks. But I’m searching for the Spanish language edition that uses the Spanish words for acts of games. Trying to translate act of games by reading it in Spanish first.

"En un momento, uno de sus abuelos ... en un acto de juegos, expone a la niña al vacío y se cae de sus manos".

 

[Indy_ar]

"En un momento, uno de sus abuelos ... en un acto de juegos, expone a la niña al vacío y se cae de sus manos".

The link was in that link Muere niña al caer de crucero en San Juan

Spanish is my native language and "acto de juegos" doesn't make much sense either. It might be a local slang but I am inclined to believe that it is just poor writing meaning "playing games".

 

[neesaki]

"En un momento, uno de sus abuelos ... en un acto de juegos, expone a la niña al vacío y se cae de sus manos".

From google translation: “exposes the girl to emptiness”.

At one time, one of his grandparents ... in an act of games, exposes the girl to emptiness and falls from his hands.

 

[neesaki]

The link was in that link Muere niña al caer de crucero en San Juan

Spanish is my native language and "acto de juegos" doesn't make much sense either. It might be a local slang but I am inclined to believe that it is just poor writing meaning "playing games".

According to google translation acto de juegos is “game act”. IOW, playing a game.

 

[IceIce9]

According to google translation acto de juegos is “game act”. IOW, playing a game.

Which is why I think he was playing the “scare the child” game. MOO

 

[neesaki]

According

Which is why I think he was playing the “scare the child” game. MOO

I think you’re right.

 

[oviedo]

The problem with this game, this man seriously broke the rules. The rules are, IF you play this game... not that I’ve ever played it, I haven’t.... you only play it in a very, very safe place.... one in which you never, ever jeopardize the safety of the child.

I’m quite sure that playing this “game” in this case, I.e., holding the baby out a window 150 feet above the concrete platform, would never qualify as a game. It does however, qualify as child abuse and child endangerment ..... and negligent homicide. Truly unbelievable.

reminds me of the dad who did the baby catch in the air but the child struck the moving ceiling fan. these "games" are dangerous as this family found out - I won't be surprised if this "game" has been played before IMO

 

[Montrealaise]

Wish that lawyer, MW, would just realize the truth and decline to represent the parents in their lawsuit.
He can't be that stupid.

He's probably hoping that the cruise ship company will settle out of court before the lawsuit goes to trial and offers the family a big fat settlement. Since he most likely took the case on a contingency basis, a big fat settlement for them means a big, fat fee for him.

 

[Montrealaise]

Maybe he’s testing out his trial theme statement. Wall of Windows. Nice alliteration. Is a wall of something stronger than a row of the same thing? A ton of bricks is heavier than a ton of feathers.
The Art of Deception.

A Hole in the Wall. For the lawyer, “a major construction flaw” as you so clearly envisioned, makes a compelling argument that RCCL was at fault. That is his point. His strategy. Like a magician who can saw a person in half. Bc they are masters of illusion.

But I kind of like “A Hole in the Wall” as a small joint, bar, restaurant, or off the beaten path. A warm and fuzzy feeling.
hole in the wall
But check out the part where it says in USA where alcoholic drinks are sold illegally. Huh? This must come from the Prohibition Era. A little dated. I digressed.
Anyway, depending on how a South Florida jury understands hole in the wall, lawyer better try for a different word or words to describe a WINDOW that was OPEN for anyone with all their senses to notice that it was OPEN. And not a place to seat a toddler. Or a drink for that matter. That drink could fall out through the OPEN WINDOW and hit someone/something below it. If my memory serves me a bit, I believe that a falling object from that height could kill or injure. Physics. Penny falling from the top of a skyscraper. It accelerates and then that speed with weight, multiplied times distance or whatever formula used etc. Any physicists out there? Math people? Engineers?

Not my job to help the
lawyer try to win his case with a better word. IMHOO, he’s testing out trial techniques through the media. Gauging the responses/comments on MSM. From those comments, he’ll know the type of juror he needs to select. A juror who can be led to believe SA thought there was a solid wall of windows. And the type to avoid at any cost. Those analytical souls who would never believe SA didn’t know the WINDOW was OPEN.

Just a hunch on my part, but I believe that the video will show that grandpa knew darn well that the window was open.

 

[Indy_ar]

According to google translation acto de juegos is “game act”. IOW, playing a game.

That explains it. "Acto de juegos" is a Spanish literal translation of "game act". It has no meaning in Spanish but in Puerto Rico, where they are bilingual, the reporter was using "Spanglish"

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Just a hunch on my part, but I believe that the video will show that grandpa knew darn well that the window was open.

Absolutely! Initial reports indicated that Grandpa was rocking Chloe in and out of the OPEN ship window. Once the family hired ship-chaser Michael Winkleman, the "story" evolved, and MW saw a big payday from RCCL.