IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. BetteDavisEyes

    BetteDavisEyes All the boys think she's a spy...

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    DH and I have sailed mostly on Princess since 2002 and are "Elite" with 20 cruises to date - #21 coming up next month. IIRC, we sailed on RCCL three times, so we probably still have "Crown & Anchor" status even though we haven't cruised with RC for many years. With multiple Princess cruises under our belts, there are some perks that would be difficult to ignore, but I would consider a Royal Caribbean cruise, as well, to show my support.
     


  2. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    And take a look at the windows that are open. Most of them that I saw weren't 100% open as the handle would stop at a couple inches at the least. IOW, it's not the same as just a big hole, there would be a small portion of glass showing. And if the glass is tinted then it should be pretty obvious, color blindness or not.

    I wonder, if the family *had* to choose one to cut loose - SA or the civil suit - which would it be?
     
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  3. jeena

    jeena Well-Known Member

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    You convinced me what a not thought out, bad idea a $500,000 pre-trial settlement is and what the negative ramifications to both sides would be. The other posters who agreed with you convinced me also.
    I was hurt at a well known theme park, I felt the park was at fault and I tried to get a few attorneys to take the case, but since I had a pre-existing injury to my knee, they weren't interested. The theme park sent me money (a pittance) for my inconvenience and I accepted, I had no recourse anyway.
     
  4. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    ITA! I mean, two professionals and yet there are fundraisers up the wazoo. "Our kid wants to go to Europe to play hockey, give us some $$," "A grandfather dropped his granddaughter out of an open window to her death, give them some $$," "Our friend is charged with negligent homicide for dropping his granddaughter out an open window, give him some defense $$." Good grief! How did they ever afford the cruise? Did we miss yet another fundraiser? (sarcasm)

    And hours after Chloe's death the personal injury lawyer is on the news trying to spin it like SA had nothing to do with it, it's all mean old RCCL's fault for not anticipating some dolt might ignore policy and perch a child on the safety rail in front of an open window.

    Multiple interviews by all, trying to garner public sympathy. IMO it's backfiring and these people can't see it. MOO.
     
  5. LietKynes

    LietKynes "What do you despise? By this you are truly known"

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    bbm

    Excellent point.
    That would be telling.
    Do we want to know ?
     
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  6. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    Its possible. The way mom says, "I visit my daughter's urn when I should be rocking her to sleep" (paraphrasing).

    Seriously, I doubt I could get a sentence like that out without breaking down. But I'm not sure I would even use my baby's creamains to illicit public sympathy.

    I usually don't comment on how people grieve, such an individual process, people tend to get crazy on here about every little eye twitch. But this mother is one cool character. I find her chilling. Maybe it's just her profession that affords her nerves of steel, but she's not helping their case from where I'm sitting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
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  7. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    Maybe before they dragged the cruise line through the mud. Not now. They should get nothing. And I thought they just wanted change. So if RC just made all the windows so they only open 4 inches, would it all be good? No. They want them to admit they were “wrong.” Oh, so they make a statement, then we good? No. They weren’t out at sea so they get all the golds! It makes me sick.
     
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  8. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    Just fix the boat AND give me all the golds!
     
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  9. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    Yes! It’s like dude, you had it right the first time. This is all your fault, SA.
     
  10. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Shower Area? Any Significance? Shoes?
    .
    At :55 sec, we see big, red (ice cream?) kiosk.
    1:00 mark, in middle of frame, out in the open close to or in kiddy zone, we see 2 tall, round-ish semi-enclosed glass structures. Is that the 'showers' area that Winkleman mentioned in interview a few days ago? Is there any significance to G'pa & Chloe going there, if, in fact, they did? Oh, wait a minute, did Chloe (want to) bang on that glass too?


    Someone asked earlier if G'pa had changed into swim wear.
    If staying close to Chloe in H20 Zone, what did G'pa have on his feet? Top-siders, flip-flops, water-shoes? Or street shoes not suitable for walking thru ankle deep water? Or did he just remove shoes? Carry them? Leave beside a chair along outer wall, the 'glass wall'?


    Cruisers-- If ppl are wearing 'street shoes' and they need to go into ankle-deep water in kiddy zone to supervise their chid, what do they do w their shoes? Maybe not that much water? Thx in adv.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  11. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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    I feel the same way about hot car deaths. Parents who forget their kids in cars and they die, often everyone feels the parents have suffered enough. But how can 99.9% of parents remember to remove their kids from the car?

    Parents will say they are distracted, but we are all distracted.

    These parents who forget their kids in the car wouldn’t forget their cell phones.

    Would SA have dangled his cell phone out the window? Or held on to his cell phone carelessly with one hand?
     
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  12. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    This is not even remotely the same imo.
    The "Hot Car" equivalent of this death would be like a caregiver seeing a car on fire and deciding to give the kid a peek inside anyway.
     
  13. LietKynes

    LietKynes "What do you despise? By this you are truly known"

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    As far as fixing the ship... If I were RCCL I'd tell this family to go away.
    There is nothing they need to 'fix'.
    You can't fix stupid.

    Making sure every deck and window is bolted with plexiglass or bars is not going to make people want to sail with them.
    The ads generally depict a person enjoying the view of the sea from their balcony and the wind blowing their hair.
    What would an ad look like if everything was nailed shut or screened over ?

    What about the lady whom -- afaik --M. Winkleman is representing, who is suing for the ship allowing her to have too many drinks-- causing her to climb over a railing and land in the ocean. :rolleyes:
    A fishing boat picked her up.
    There's no fixing of the ship to prevent her from climbing over a railing meant to keep the passengers from falling over.
    The railing on the outer private balconies looked around 4 feet in height.
    One would have to climb up and over, or straddle them -- to fall over.
     
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  14. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    $500,000 "Goodwill Gesture" Revisited
    @jeena :) Sorry that you were injured at an amusement park, of all places. Seems bad things should not happen there. Also disappointing that attys did not accept your case, because of pre-existing injury.

    Sometimes ideas that sound good when first conceived look different in the harsh cold light of day, or not good at all when viewed from different angles or multiple viewpoints.
    Usually I don't post trying 'to convince' anyone to change their mind or to agree w me. Often I'm exploring possibilities, seeking info/knowledge from others w (more) experience in a matter. Sometimes to ask poster(s) -- have you considered this (X) factor as relevant?
    As someone told years ago - We are all ignorant, but not about the same things. And I've heard a more positive version of this concept - Each and every person out there knows about something you do not, and often you can learn something from them.
    Every day I learn something new on Websleuths. It's a great place.


     
  15. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    I don't have any cruise experience but I'm wondering about a couple of things specific to the Freedom of the Seas ship.

    Watching the 11th-floor video tour recently posted-- it appears that there are screens on some of the lower windows (located beneath the operable windows). Also, I just noticed the same in a photo from the lawsuit (see link below).

    Wondering if these really are screens and if it's true that RCCL's newer ships were designed without operable windows. (Freedom of the Seas was built 2006).

    ETA: add link

    IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
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  16. lonetraveler

    lonetraveler Crime Addict

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    I totally agree, I'm a big believer in not rewarding bad behavior.
     
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  17. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    Those are designed to sweep water out of - there are several scattered about deck 11 on all the RCCL ships I’ve been on - in very choppy seas the pool water sloshes out and the water needs to be swept out from what I’ve seen - same with storms - it’s happened to me only a couple of times but that’s how I’ve seen them used - I will check it out next week on the ship I’m on (not FOTS)
    JMO
     
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  18. lonetraveler

    lonetraveler Crime Addict

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    Grandfather's story is bothering me. Chloe was supposedly sitting on the railing. A railing located 18" from the window opening. If she is of average height of 31.8 inches for an 18 month old female toddler then how could she go out of the window. Just say that her legs are around 10" long, that leaves 21.8 " of her body, from her butt to the top of her head leaning forward from the sitting position toward the window opening 18" away. That would have put only 3.8 inches of her head out of the window, ie., not enough to make her fall out of the window. This just proves to me that the original story that came out of him holding her outside of the window is most likely the correct story. IMO
    18-Month-Old Development Milestones: Toddler Month by Month
     
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  19. SaguaroSpirit

    SaguaroSpirit Happy Times in Cactus Land

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    BBM Most of her body would have had to be outside the window, it's a matter of plain physics. Just over half, probably. WHY was she so far out that window if it was an accident? I just can't see it. MOO
     
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  20. lonetraveler

    lonetraveler Crime Addict

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    I know what you mean, I've only cruised Norwegian cruises and enjoy the perks, a lot but I would consider RCCL to show my support as well.
     
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