IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. Aydrianna523

    Aydrianna523 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I never understood the throw-a-child-in-the-air game. Someone actually did drop their infant that way.
    (Nor do I understand it when guys put their toddler up on their shoulders, etc).
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019


  2. proctorelites

    proctorelites Well-Known Member

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    You guys I have seen parents sit kids on handrails in many places. The Zoo, a Condominium's balcony rail at different levels and even a cruise ship's railing (unbelievable but this guy is not the 1st, Ive been on several & there's always one idiot) and I've actually had a full-blown, blow-out arguement with my ex-husband for doing this on a condo balcony at the beach. Had he dropped her, he would've been devastated, duh. Always full of so much confidence in himself. He knew he wouldn't drop her on purpose but had so much confidence in himself he couldn't see any circumstance where an outside force caused him to drop her. Or he just lost balance, of course not, not him. Such blatant disregard for safety bc of his own self confidence.
    Telling someone not to toss a kid in the air- they say "I would never hurt this baby"..well accidents happen and they ask "you dont trust me?" Those kind of people..is he one of those?
     
  3. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    I agree that grandparents are usually safe if not the safest babysitters - I'm probably more wary of possible dangers with my grandkids than I was with their moms.

    And in this case the moment of negligence, of doing something out of the norm, was SA putting Chloe on the railing IMO. Had he held her in his arms, behind the railing, I doubt that she would have fallen through the window. Mind you, I wouldn't even go that far with an open window but right now there's no evidence that he actually held Chloe outside of the window, only that he sat her on the railing. IMO if he did hang her outside then he'd be charged at the least with manslaughter or even second degree murder.

    So I believe he's charged appropriately with negligent homicide. IOW he's charged with doing something really, really stupid. That resulted in Chloe's death. MOO.
     
  4. BetteDavisEyes

    BetteDavisEyes All the boys think she's a spy...

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    I had cataracts at age 48 that were likely caused by long-term use of cortico-steroidal inhalers for asthma. Twenty years ago, pharmaceutical warning for early cataract development was rare - less than 1% of patients using these inhaled cortico-steroids. Incidence of early cataracts related to the inhalers has significantly increased.

    https://www.webmd.com/asthma/news/20030917/inhaled-steroids-cataract
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  5. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    A couple of questions if anyone can answer:

    Do we know who it was that released the video clips to CBS? Was it Winkleman or the defense attorney?

    Wouldn’t the prosecution have to approve this?

    My understanding is they released only parts of the video, not the entire thing, Thus preserving the evidence for trial. So does this mean the claims by the defense that the video supports GPs story are based only on partial video ? TIA
     
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  6. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    That's what I thought too but others have said that passengers are allowed to open the windows.
    I thought the metal bar was meant to be prevent people from accessing the windows at all.

    Imo
     
  7. Aydrianna523

    Aydrianna523 Well-Known Member

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    Well said. I've seen questionable behavior as well.
     
  8. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    I have opened them myself. The only "bar" I have seen is the wooden handrail that is in front of the windows

    [​IMG]

    We now have so many stories about what happened that day - he lifted her up to bang on the window, he is colorblind and didn't see that the window was open, she squirmed from his grasp, plus the reporters description of the video they were allowed to see -
    from the reporter - up and over the railing - IMO that means she was held outside of the railing not on the railing itself - with one arm because his other arm was checking for the glass.

    The video that CBS News saw, and I saw myself, appears to show you holding Chloe above the railing and over the railing ... I have to think a juror who watches that may think, 'That was reckless,'" Begnaud said.
    Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says colorblindness may have been a factor
     
  9. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    @neesaki

    Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says colorblindness may have been a factor
    The surveillance video shown to CBS News by attorney Michael Winkleman, who represents Chloe's family but not Anello in his criminal case, appeared to show that the time it took for Anello to pick Chloe up and hold her up to a window above the railing before she fell was about six seconds. But CBS News has since learned that video was not in real time. The incident actually lasted more than 30 seconds.

    Winkleman said the video he showed CBS News was the same format he received from prosecutors.

    "Any variation in time likely has to do with software issues," he said in a statement. "Most importantly, whether it was five, 10 or 30 seconds does nothing to change the fact that Sam reasonably believed that the window was closed."
     
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  10. Aydrianna523

    Aydrianna523 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why my cataracts started a bit earlier than most.
    There's a couple possibilities but nothing clear cut.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
    they'll get you likes this.
  11. BetteDavisEyes

    BetteDavisEyes All the boys think she's a spy...

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    Bringing this over from previous thread. I'm still reading this. Interesting that so many people mention that Grandpa was holding the toddler outside the open window.

    Freedom of the Seas Fatality?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  12. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    @they'll get you :). Thx for pix.
    Pic #1 = squat; #2 = kneel/squat. Can he get up easily & quickly to grab a toddler? But based on window height pix, he could not have been squatting or kneeling, when she went thru window.


    In pic #2, our little Elsa fan in a dress w hem draping on sidewalk?
    A face plant in the making, on concrete yet. :eek:
    Here maybe younger than 18 mo? She's a toddler.
    Not Scarlett O'Hara who can lift front of long, floor-skimming skirt & avoid tripping on extra fabric.


    Who puts toddler in dress like that, then lets toddler go outside? IDK. Well, maybe not G'pa's idea.
     
  13. justice4allnow

    justice4allnow Well-Known Member

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    I'm very cautious around heights, never lean on balcony railings, because there have been instances when they gave way. I would feel the same way about leaning against a closed window in a high-rise, just inherently dangerous. We just celebrated Thanksgiving. If Chloe's family were roasting a turkey and Chloe wanted to lean against the oven glass and bang on it, would the family then sue the manufacturer when she was burned? Sam's actions were reckless.
     
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  14. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    This is JMOO but it's possible the "software issues" that Winkleman noted could simply be that the camera records in stop motion rather than 100% real time. IOW, the camera may take a picture every couple of seconds and when run in sequence you see what happened but the time is compressed. Which explains the time gap.

    There's no way the prosecution would conceal anything that helps SA's defense so IMO it's the format of the camera and not any kind of editing or erasing a few seconds. Again, that would not help the prosecution and if it was found that they manipulated the video there'd be hell to pay - and probably another lawsuit by the parents. MOO.
     
  15. SuziQ

    SuziQ Well-Known Member

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    I call people like that arrogant. And yes, I do think SA is arrogant, narcissistic and a dolt. They are so full of themselves. When you call them out on it, they say YOU have the problem. It is infuriating!
     
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  16. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    I believe the first, early reports rather than what has been put by the attorney. I think she was held outside the window, it's on video, and the only explanation they can come up with is he thought there was glass - I guess the glass would magically appear outside the window then?
    JMO
     
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  17. Aydrianna523

    Aydrianna523 Well-Known Member

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    There's actually videos out there of dads throwing the kids super high in the air. Craziness.
     
  18. Aydrianna523

    Aydrianna523 Well-Known Member

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    He was holding help her up to an 'imaginary' window?!
    This link seems to confirm he originally did say that, minus the imaginary part, of course.
    Cruise ship toddler death video could help decide grandfather's fate
     
  19. BetteDavisEyes

    BetteDavisEyes All the boys think she's a spy...

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    Speaking of squatting, it appears this is what Grandpa is doing in this photo, too. He's down on the floor beside some luggage. Maybe he's sitting on aother bag, but I think he's squatting and holding Chloe by her lower legs.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  20. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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    Chloe’s grandfather was responsible for her care. Did he act with negligence, recklessness, or intent?

    It was one of the three. Will it be up to a jury to view the video and decide?
     
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