IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    He placed her on the window sill. If that window was closed, would she have been able to sit on that window ledge, and not be up against the glass, with her toes and legs?

    I don't think he would have been able to place her that way in a closed window, without know ing it was closed. The glass would have been clearly visible and touchable.

    I HOPE the jury is taken on a field trip to the 11th deck and is allowed to walk up to the windows themselves.
     


  2. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Ok, so for a moment she is being dangled. I would use that as evidence of his blatant criminal neglect, right there. There is no justification whatsoever for that baby to be in such a vulnerable position, at the hands of her caregiver.
     
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  3. lonetraveler

    lonetraveler Crime Addict

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    Well now you have me laughing out loud and scaring my dog.
     
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  4. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I agree that , glass or not, placing the baby up on that perch was still negligent. If she had fallen backwards, which she may have if she lurched forward and hit the glass, she would have fallen on her head onto the floor. We may have been having a similar conversation about the tragedy if he had chosen a window that was closed. JMO
     
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  5. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I agree.

    I think that when he leaned very far forward, his girth shoved her off her perch. :(
     
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  6. lonetraveler

    lonetraveler Crime Addict

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    Well now you have me laughing out loud and scaring my dog.
     
  7. vallie

    vallie Registered Rollerblader

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    I suppose this was mentioned, but here's DB's twitter after the release of the laComay vid:


    [​IMG]

    David Begnaud
    @DavidBegnaud

    ·
    Dec 18, 2019

    A careful review of said video confirms, however that Salvatore Anello is guilty of negligent homicide as charged. The evidence collected in this case corroborates his criminal responsibility. We hope and expect Chloe’s family fully cooperates...

    3

    5
     
  8. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    3A2C6797-0DC1-4CB8-86A1-D2D2F6697C19.jpeg 3A2C6797-0DC1-4CB8-86A1-D2D2F6697C19.jpeg
    I seldom jump In without catching up but wow - someone compared these two cases ? I promise to go back and try to comprehend that if true - he dangled this baby outside the window and dropped her 11 stories - no comparison IMO
    This was a similar view
     
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  9. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Aren’t The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    Exactly. In that case, the family was complying with signs that said “no swimming.” The kid was standing in a foot of water, and there was nothing warning anyone about alligators.

    There was clear negligence on the part of Disney, but not in regards to the parents.

    In this case, we have a guy who went out of his way to put his granddaughter in danger, and his actions alone are what killed her.

    There is not only no comparison, but it’s laughable to attempt to make one.
     
  10. BeachSky

    BeachSky Well-Known Member

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    BBM.
    Exactly. The elephant is in the room & on video!
     
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  11. Forever Young

    Forever Young Well-Known Member

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    For accuracy's sake, I believe that the above quote was made by the Attorney General Dennise Longo Quinones, not DB. The CBS News article is linked to in his Twitter feed:

    We are unaware of how Kobbo Santarrosa obtained the video of the unfortunate incident where Chloe Wiegand lost her life," Attorney General Dennise Longo Quiñones told CBS News. "A careful review of said video confirms, however that Salvatore Anello is guilty of negligent homicide as charged. The evidence collected in this case corroborates his criminal responsibility. We hope and expect Chloe's family fully cooperates with our proceedings and that justice prevails in this case with conviction."

    Grandfather offered plea deal in girl's cruise ship death as Puerto Rico TV show airs video
     
  12. Lawsmygame2

    Lawsmygame2 Well-Known Member

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    I keep reading (here and other blogs) that mother of CW is an attorney/former judge but I don’t see any reference to her profession in the articles I have read..only her husband being a police officer. I probably missed it so if anyone could provide a link...I would like to read. Thanks in advance.
     
  13. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Aren’t The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    <modsnip -quoted post was removed>

    Had this child managed to fall out that window without any assistance, I’m sure we’d see something similar from Royal Caribbean.

    But for the most part, the public is on their side, and the villain is the unrepentant grandfather who caused her death.

    It’s a business decision at this point, and a legal one. Who knows how they will proceed, or how this will shake out.

    But the lawsuit by the family is saying “you are at fault, not someone in our family.”

    I couldn’t disagree more.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2020
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  14. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    What if it had been an adult? What if, let's say, two adults were fooling around, and one of them lifted the other up, and he fell out that same window...

    Manslaughter charges would be a given, people would not be very sympathetic and I doubt very much anyone would be blaming the ship.

    For some odd reason this child's death at the hands of a obscenely negligent caretaker is being seen as, "punishment enough", by her own family.

    The harrowing gravity of reckless disregard, is truly impossible to understand for anyone who's seen the video.

    Either he really thought there was glass there and we're all mistaken or her family members are...
    a little unwell just now. (as most here know, my money is on temporary insanity. They need a Trauma Therapist more than Winkleman! ).

    I found this interesting record of all logged mishaps at sea, (not sure if it's been shared previously):

    Events at Sea
     
  15. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Child Deaths. Apples & Oranges?
    @My Belle :) Just jumping off your ^ post, since it discussed multiple situations causing child deaths, all of which are unbelievably sad.

    Not sure how citing instances of prosecutors exercising prosecutorial discretion, by electing not to bring charges for completely dissimilar circumstances helps to further discussion of case at hand. Sometimes the person-responsible-has-suffered-enough-concept factors into decision not to prosecute, but is rarely if ever the principle basis imo.

    In hot-car-child-deaths, sometimes prosecutors have prosecuted, other times not, all depending on the circumstances of the case. Ditto backover cases. But in backovers, AFAIK, no prosecutor has exercised discretion not to prosecute where an adult held a toddler on driveway/on ground behind a car, then seconds later the car backed over the child causing death.

    Comparing Chloe's death w hot-car-child-death. or w backover cases seems like apples & oranges. Or cucumbers & kumquats, jmo. I'm going to try to refrain from commenting further on situations where the only commonality w this case is death of a child.
     
  16. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    The girl's mother is Kimberly Wiegand, who used to be a deputy prosecutor for St. Joseph County. Her father is Officer Alan Wiegand with the South Bend Police Department.
    Family's worst nightmare: Toddler of South Bend officer falls to her death on cruise ship
     
  17. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    Because it's just a window. Windows don't crawl out of the wall and eat people.

    Reasonable people know what could happen if you shove a toddler out a window they dont require warning signage.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  18. Montrealaise

    Montrealaise Well-Known Member

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    I have been reading comments here and elsewhere, and very very few people < modsnip - calling out a member> are on the family's side. Those who are vilifying RRCL are usually people who aren't familiar with the case and just know what Winkleman has said, i.e. the toddler fell out on an open window in a child's play area - and they usually change their mind once they learn the facts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2020
  19. Montrealaise

    Montrealaise Well-Known Member

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    I think the best analogy to this case is that of the Texas mother who decided to play a game of "chicken" with her children, driving her SUV towards them. Her three-year-old didn't get out of the way fast enough and he was crushed underneath the wheels of her car. She has been charged with criminally negligent homicide. Now, I'm sure there was no intention to kill her son, but as far as I know, nobody is saying that she shouldn't be charged because "she's suffered enough" or threatening to sue the car manufacturer.
     
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  20. Chikkamma

    Chikkamma Well-Known Member

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    Newer La Comay episode that shows extended footage of what happened (from the side view) after SA’s collapse to the floor:



    Kobbo Santarrosa (the puppet) points out a couple of things he didn’t mention in the first episode. Will list them in a separate post.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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