IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    She was not sitting on any rail after she fell. When she “disappeared” I can only assume SA looked down.

    He says he was looking for her on the floor but saw her fall all the way down.

    There is a pic from a member that shows exactly what he would have seen.
     
  2. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    I am explaining this poorly. But yet I persist - good for me!

    You don’t have to lean out the window to see down. Each row of glass slants out a bit from the ship.

    So looking down you see your feet, and the entire side of the ship to the ground or sea through the bottom row of glass. Because it is not perpendicular - it slants out.
     
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  3. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    We all assume he stood Chloe in the window frame because MW’s recreation has the SA stand-in holding the Chloe doll in the window frame.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  4. Forever Young

    Forever Young Well-Known Member

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    You can find some of the measurements in the response to the Motion to Dismiss here:

    Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 3.pdf
     
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  5. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science" Liet Kynes

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    bbm
    Exactly.
    He watched her fall. He said this himself.
    Horrifying and can certainly show room to believe there was intent.
    She was never 'slipping from the railing'.
    But would have had to be placed on the window ledge or held outside it to fall , and the slanted lower window pane would've given S.A. a court side seat to view her fall.
     
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  6. Andreee

    Andreee Well-Known Member

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    There were only 2 spots where she could potentially 'sit', on the railing and on the opened window frame, the whole thing is unbelievably cray cray!
     
  7. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    Yes and he would have also been looking at his own feet on the floor right before the bottom pane of glass he would have watched her fall through.

    I bet that was pretty horrific.
     
  8. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    This is it, thank you They’ll Get You!

    He looked for her on the floor but saw her tumbling to her death.

    Or so he says. At least it makes sense.
     

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  9. justice4allnow

    justice4allnow Well-Known Member

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    The earliest reports out of Puerto Rico said that she was in the window frame. I've seen one report saying he lost his balance and she fell, and another report saying that she lost her balance and fell.
     
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  10. MassGuy

    MassGuy On Time Out

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    And if he didn’t lift her up, it would be irrelevant who lost their balance.

    She shouldn’t have been there, because he shouldn’t have put her there.
     
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  11. MassGuy

    MassGuy On Time Out

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    Instead of responding by putting up warning signs that say “Please don’t sit on the railing,” I hope RCC takes a broader approach.

    At any location where someone could do something incredibly stupid and kill either themselves or another person, they should just put up a picture of this guy with the words “Don’t be Like Sal.”
     
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  12. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    I don’t wanna be an SA apologist haha, but I read something about the family having gone a disney cruise.

    Could SA have just been free-wheeling through the ship not paying attention with the *assumption* the set up is the same as Disney, which I think does the whole glass below railings so can’t climbed, no opening more than 4 inches... And he just...screwed up? Thought the wind was coming from above or something?

    Still sounds like you would need to be intoxicated in some way to stand there for 30 seconds *trying to touch glass that wasn’t there* and not clue in that was because there was no glass, imo.
     
  13. MassGuy

    MassGuy On Time Out

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    And the “intoxicated” thing would really help explain this whole event.

    Either this guy is the most clueless, reckless, and entitled person alive, or he was drunk.

    It doesn’t make the situation any better, as it’s irresponsible either way you slice it. But atleast we could understand how the hell someone could be this stupid.
     
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  14. Chikkamma

    Chikkamma Well-Known Member

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    The fact that Winkleman’s reenactment included a photo of the actor holding the doll in a standing position on the window ledge makes me think she was indeed put on the ledge at some point and that this can be seen clearly in the HD video. Winkleman’s own re-enactment admits that Chloe was held out (at some point) on the ledge.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  15. justice4allnow

    justice4allnow Well-Known Member

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    On July 9 2019 AP reported this from Puerto Rico:
    "Police said Monday that Chloe Wiegand died when the young girl's grandfather told officers he lost his grip while holding her outside a window on the Freedom of the Seas. He was identified as Salvatorre Anello, of Valparaiso. In an interview on NBC's TODAY, the family attorney, Michael Winkleman, said the grandfather rather placed Chloe on a ledge and had no idea it was open."
    So I do believe that "ledge" was the window ledge.
     
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  16. justice4allnow

    justice4allnow Well-Known Member

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    But none of that explains why he breached the safety railing with the baby-clearly no one was to go over it, it's there to keep people safely back from the windows.
     
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  17. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking about his potential drunkeness. One would think that if he was sober he would have submitted to a sobriety test, right?

    So what I've been pondering is if his drunkeness led him to miss the fact that it was an open window, isn't he still responsible? In that case Chloe's death would be the direct result of him being her caretaker while drunk. There are plenty of example of people being found guilty of negligent homicide for driving while drunk, but would caregiving while drunk fall under the same kind of analysis?
     
  18. Chikkamma

    Chikkamma Well-Known Member

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    And more importantly, none of that explains why he didn’t touch the glass first to make sure it was there before hoisting a little baby up to it. It was his responsibility as a caregiver to check the safety of the surroundings. That’s on him, not the ship.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  19. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting. So when he bends over the railing he could have been looking down without poking his head out the window. However, I can't get past how he reaches out. He very clearly reaches out with both arms as he approaches the window. It's a 0:28 in this video. The only possible thing he can be reaching for is the window frame and/or sill. There's nothing else there.

     
  20. MassGuy

    MassGuy On Time Out

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    I don’t think it changes anything, both legally and just in general.

    He’s still responsible for her death, sober or not.

    The only thing it changes for me, is that I can make more sense of how this could have happened. He wouldn’t be the dumbest man alive, but would still be stunningly irresponsible.

    I agree, if he was sober he would have consented to a breathalyzer. Unless he had booze in his cabin, I think purchase records (room key swipes), bartender accounts, witness accounts, and surveillance footage could shed some light.

    Prove that, and he’s dead in the water.
     
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