IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,953
    Likes Received:
    138,454
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think he described it in the last interview. He said he watched her fall all the way down.
    Also I think there was a witness who said he dropped to the floor right after she fell. Or maybe he said that himself.
    Maybe I'm not remembering correctly and he just said he first looked on the floor but either way apparently he looked there first before looking out the window and seeing her fall all the way down.

    Maybe, if he was actually on the floor, he could see her fall through the lower window? Idk
    It's hard to visualize without a picture of where he was and knowing his line of vision.
     
    cattlekate, fabvab and MassGuy like this.
  2. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

    Messages:
    12,851
    Likes Received:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It’s true what you say as I’ve been wondering why Chloe landed so far away from the ship.
     
    abr, Tutter, CherylE and 8 others like this.
  3. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

    Messages:
    12,851
    Likes Received:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Absolutely.
     
  4. justice4allnow

    justice4allnow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    2,234
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I believe that we have some lawyers here...would one of you please enlighten me as to whether RCCL is able to request Anello's medical records? In terms of meds and pre-existing conditions.
     
    abr, cattlekate, MassGuy and 5 others like this.
  5. Chikkamma

    Chikkamma Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    2,660
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I never realized this until you pointed it out. The moment in the side view video when we see him pull his right elbow back into our view (after it being completely out of our view) is the time when SA has Chloe standing on the window ledge and lets go of her with his right arm.

    I guess this is why even Winkleman couldn’t deny that Chloe was at some point standing on the window ledge.
     
  6. Lawsmygame2

    Lawsmygame2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    757
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I watched the video and came to this conclusion before the re-enactment. This is what I concluded from watching the video from the “behind” view...Chloe leaves the area where the grandfather is squatting followed by SA. He bends over looking down/out the window while Chloe is beneath him. He squats down beside Chloe for a few seconds the lifts her up and over the railing. He then sits her on the railing to his right (you can see her white hat) and looks down/out the window. Then he picks her up and puts her in front of him...to whereas she is standing on the ledge. Then he put her out further beyond the ledge and a a few seconds she is gone. From the side view, you see SA lean over the railing. You then see him squat down beside Chloe. You then see him pick her up and hoist her over the railing and look down. You can see that Chloe is beside him on his right because you can see her white hat. Then you see him shift positions and move Chloe in front of him. After that you can’t really see Chloe...only SA who does a lot of rocking back and forth motions. Then SA falls backwards and you know she is gone.

    What I find interesting from the side view is that if you focus on the 3rd white section (pole/partition) and not the SA, you can see some glimpses of a shadow/figure during/after the time SA shifts Chloe in front of him. I don’t know whether this shadow/figure is Chloe because I don’t have the ability to go frame by frame, still shot, or enlargement on my computer. But if it can be done, I think the results would be interesting. If in fact it is determined that the shadow/figure is in fact Chloe, it would show she was in fact held beyond the window ledge and out the window before she “fell.”

    Of course, these are just my observations and my opinions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
    Stinalyn, NoClouseau, abr and 13 others like this.
  7. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science" Liet Kynes

    Messages:
    9,123
    Likes Received:
    71,849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agreed.
    The lawsuit should be thrown out then as well.
    The Wiegand's never had a right to sue in the first place.
    RCCL would be within their rights to counter sue for defamation.
     
    abr, Chikkamma, MassGuy and 6 others like this.
  8. TDoc72

    TDoc72 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    1,482
    Trophy Points:
    93
    So if he has her standing on the window ledge, where exactly does he think the glass was? I mean, the glass has to be connected to something.
     
    abr, molly esmeralda, MassGuy and 6 others like this.
  9. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

    Messages:
    12,851
    Likes Received:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In Aust we see lots MSM stuff scrubbed before a upcoming trial and many sleuthers copy and screenshot early articles. GOLD in hindsight.
     
    Chikkamma, Velouria, MassGuy and 4 others like this.
  10. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    57,355
    Likes Received:
    116,077
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How did he determine that he couldn't reach the glass, if he didn't even try?

    I thought he said:
    'Oh my god ... All I know is I was trying to reach the glass and I know that we leaned over to try to have her reach the glass, at that point she slipped."

    How could he try and reach the glass if he wasn't reaching out the window?

    Video Suggests Cruise Ship Grandpa Knew Window Was Open
     
  11. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science" Liet Kynes

    Messages:
    9,123
    Likes Received:
    71,849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    bbm
    The first story put out by the lawyer was that the entire family was at a buffet.
    Which begs the question why wouldn't Chloe and step-grandpa be eating as well ?
    Later the story was changed to 'the mother had to attend to a cruise matter'. What was so important that she left Chloe with a person who was clearly incapable of watching anyone ?

    Seems very choreographed.
    Strange and sad for a little toddler who never had the full life she deserved.
     
    Stinalyn, abr, Chikkamma and 7 others like this.
  12. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,953
    Likes Received:
    138,454
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I understand what you mean, you explained it very well.
    I wasn't clear in my post and it's too late to edit now, but what I was wondering is when he originally looked over the railing before he lifted her over, is it possible that he was actually looking down between the railing and the window and not all the way out the window?
    I know he appears to be leaning forward and looking out the actual window but it's hard to tell from the video. A camera angled on the side of the ship on the outside would show it better but we haven't seen that. Imo
     
    cattlekate, MsMarple, MassGuy and 2 others like this.
  13. justice4allnow

    justice4allnow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    2,234
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I do not believe that he was being truthful when he said the he thought that there was glass. But let's say that he was truthful and there had been glass there-what was his plan? To mush her little body up against the pane? Looking at Winkleman's doll on the window ledge, would that ledge of a closed window even be wide enough for Chloe's feet? And how could she have banged on the glass, standing there closely pressed up against the pane? None of this makes sense, it's illogical. I simply cannot make sense of any of his actions.
     
    abr, Tutter, Kittybunny and 14 others like this.
  14. Lawnguylander1964

    Lawnguylander1964 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    Trophy Points:
    93

    I wonder if this could be a translation issue "lost his grip" vs "lost his balance."

    Or another inconsistency.
     
  15. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    57,355
    Likes Received:
    116,077
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The defense team did a reenactment of the incident. They placed the doll , standing up on the window sill.

    Would they have done that in the reenactment video if he never did that to the baby? I don't think so.
     
    abr, cattlekate, fabvab and 11 others like this.
  16. SaguaroSpirit

    SaguaroSpirit Happy Halloween

    Messages:
    1,591
    Likes Received:
    16,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good point.
     
    justbreathe, MassGuy, neesaki and 2 others like this.
  17. justice4allnow

    justice4allnow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    2,234
    Trophy Points:
    93
    In this YouTube video at around the 6.10 mark, Winkleman says that Sam stands Chloe up there and then lets go for a second and she's gone. Yeah, lets go. Sorry I can't upload it but here's the link :
     
    TRB, justbreathe, Chikkamma and 10 others like this.
  18. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

    Messages:
    12,851
    Likes Received:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OK let me explain because I’ve actually done it and witnessed it.
    Bend from your waist, chest, shoulders and neck.

    66733ED1-DD78-4D92-AD9E-87F09384CC6A.jpeg
    02CE6A3C-E743-4972-97F9-57635D4D0B54.jpeg

    Now see this rotund lady for example. She stands relaxed at the rail. If she were to stand tall on the little 4-5” ledge and stretch upward and out her head would be outside that sill. I’ve done it.
    Now hold your arms high above your head, there’s 2’ above your head to your hands, yes?
     
    TRB, neesaki, Area52 and 5 others like this.
  19. Andreee

    Andreee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,625
    Likes Received:
    6,662
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And it DOES look like he leans way over the railing, whether from below the belly or not!
     
  20. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

    Messages:
    12,851
    Likes Received:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I zoomed in when he first went to that window.

    It clearly shows his head moved out beyond the window frame.
     
    abr, Velouria, neesaki and 5 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice