IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

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I understand by reading numerous articles, the parents didn't view the video. However, the father being in law enforcement and the mother with a lawyer connection/career, wouldn't someone they trust from work view the video to see if there is a case or not for continuing on with the lawsuit? I read that those are the only 2 videos so I think RCCL is certain of their case, are the parents certain of theirs or are they only relying on their lawyers word? Do they want to fast track the lawsuit and hope to get a money settlement before the criminal trial is held, maybe thinking that a win would help SA?
 
Bethan said:
Respectfully snipped & bolded...to highlight Mr Neesaki’s comments.
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Neesaki, your husband sounds like a smart man. That was one insightful comment. SA's Freudian slip. I don't mean that in reference to the fall but in reference to the theory "there are no accidents." To treat a child so recklessly is severe aggression against the parents, whether conscious of it or not. Or maybe step-granddad was doped up on a horrible combination of meds or something, as some have wondered. A harsh theory but the facts of this case are very hard for most people to look at, let alone the possible motive. (I do think he wishes he could undo what he did. BUT HE DID THIS.)

One person I truly feel sad for is Chloe's father Alan. She was his only biological child as far as I know. We've all seen how much he is suffering. Now unfortunately he has to try to hold his family together under the worst circumstance. I'm not saying I don't feel sad for many others in the family because I do. But he seems like such a good man.
 
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MsBetsy said:
Yes, he did look out the window because he says he saw her fall.
But at first he said he looked for her on the floor.

Imo
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IMO... another contradiction by SA. He said he watched her fall “all the away down”. How could he do that if he looked for her on the ship’s floor first? It would only have been a matter of seconds before Chloe landed on the pier.
 
cattlekate said:
Can someone please respond with the following:
1). What is the height from the floor to the railing?

2) What is the distance from the railing to the window sill?

3) Is there a ledge at the bottom, below the railing, for an adult to tip-toe on?

4) How tall is SA? How tall was Chloe?

After watching both videos, I’m convinced that SA hoisted Chloe up to the rail. I’m not convinced that she was placed anywhere other than the railing.

The sideways video has pillars in the way, which make it look like SA was hoisting her to the window sill, but I don’t think that is true due to the pillars being in the way of the camera.

I’ve re-enacted this in my house and am convinced that she was hoisted up to the railing. But being top-heavy, as all toddlers are, she squirmed and leaned forward and thus tumbled out.

But without the measurement between the railing and window, as well as SA and her heights, it’s difficult to determine if she could tumble out.
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SA is 5’11””. Not sure about Chloe. Railing is purported to be 42” from floor. Some uncertainty about distance from railing to window, but in the range of 15-18”
Had Chloe been seated on the railing, it’s unlikely she would have gone on the window. Undoubtedly would have been injured though. Perhaps others here have more definitive measurements.
 
In vino veritas said:
SA is 5’11””. Not sure about Chloe. Railing is purported to be 42” from floor. Some uncertainty about distance from railing to window, but in the range of 15-18”
Had Chloe been seated on the railing, it’s unlikely she would have gone on the window. Undoubtedly would have been injured though. Perhaps others here have more definitive measurements.
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Measurements:

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Using a man of Anello's height and stature to conduct a reenactment, Winkleman's team took measurements to see if the scenario could have played out the way Royal Caribbean claims.

f9b49360-176c-4683-9258-5258422640f8-jknfegresfg.PNG

Attorneys for the Wiegand family say it would have been physically impossible for Anello to lean his head out of the window, and then hold Chloe out of the window from his position.

"In order to even touch the subject window with the very top of his head, Plaintiffs’ counsel had to lift his feet at least seven inches off the ground," Winkleman writes.

Winkleman's filing says that during the ship inspection, it was determined that the inside edge of the handrail was 19 inches from the window opening.

Family attorneys say cruise line's story of toddler's death is 'physically impossible'
 
Andreee said:
Welcome! And regarding the brother, I have not as yet seen anything about him at all. Can you enlighten me as to where he was at the time of the tragedy and why you would depose him? Thank-you.
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The only thing I remember is reading that the 11 yr old was the first family member who happened upon the aftermath of the tragedy. :(

Made me wonder if maybe Mom had called him and asked him to come and help by playing with his baby sister. I wish it had happened that way.
 
Andreee said:
Welcome! And regarding the brother, I have not as yet seen anything about him at all. Can you enlighten me as to where he was at the time of the tragedy and why you would depose him? Thank-you.
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I read somewhere (will have to look to see if I can find again) that the brother was the first on the scene after the incident, then the mother. I think it was in a news article but don’t quote me on that.
 
Lawsmygame2 said:
I read somewhere (will have to look to see if I can find again) that the brother was the first on the scene after the incident, then the mother. I think it was in a news article but don’t quote me on that.
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I read the same thing. But I can't remember which article. But it made me very sad for the boy. What a devastating thing for a child to experience.

Thinking about that now, makes me wonder if that is why the family is so doggedly supportive of the grandfather. It is probably devastating for his grandson to deal with his grandfather being in trouble for this. JMO
 
Lawsmygame2 said:
I watched the video and came to this conclusion before the re-enactment. This is what I concluded from watching the video from the “behind” view...Chloe leaves the area where the grandfather is squatting followed by SA. He bends over looking down/out the window while Chloe is beneath him. He squats down beside Chloe for a few seconds the lifts her up and over the railing. He then sits her on the railing to his right (you can see her white hat) and looks down/out the window. Then he picks her up and puts her in front of him...to whereas she is standing on the ledge. Then he put her out further beyond the ledge and a a few seconds she is gone. From the side view, you see SA lean over the railing. You then see him squat down beside Chloe. You then see him pick her up and hoist her over the railing and look down. You can see that Chloe is beside him on his right because you can see her white hat. Then you see him shift positions and move Chloe in front of him. After that you can’t really see Chloe...only SA who does a lot of rocking back and forth motions. Then SA falls backwards and you know she is gone.

What I find interesting from the side view is that if you focus on the 3rd white section (pole/partition) and not the SA, you can see some glimpses of a shadow/figure during/after the time SA shifts Chloe in front of him. I don’t know whether this shadow/figure is Chloe because I don’t have the ability to go frame by frame, still shot, or enlargement on my computer. But if it can be done, I think the results would be interesting. If in fact it is determined that the shadow/figure is in fact Chloe, it would show she was in fact held beyond the window ledge and out the window before she “fell.”

Of course, these are just my observations and my opinions.
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I noticed those same shadows also and assumed they were Chloe
 
katydid23 said:
I read the same thing. But I can't remember which article. But it made me very sad for the boy. What a devastating thing for a child to experience.

Thinking about that now, makes me wonder if that is why the family is so doggedly supportive of the grandfather. It is probably devastating for his grandson to deal with his grandfather being in trouble for this. JMO
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IMHO, because not to be would mess up their big lawsuit. Which I hope fervently is already messed up and will not go anywhere.
 
In vino veritas said:
I was actually referring to the two times he looked down before he bent down to lift Chloe over the railing. If you look at the La Comay video, he goes to the window, bends over from the waist and looks down for a few seconds. He then lifts his body slightly and proceeds to look down again. Almost as if he’s getting more leverage
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I noticed that too and it looks like he's looking for something or straining to see something. I don't know why he did that but it seemed strange to me.
 
molly esmeralda said:
Wow. This has been a really captivating thread that has got me occupied and spending way too much of my days on. In the end, I'm not going to even try to guess what was going on in SA's mind. All I can conclude is he is solely responsible for poor Chloe's demise. The suit against RCCL is ridiculous and the reenactment so utterly laughable I can't even....

After reading what seems like hundreds of pages on this thread, we all try to make sense of what happened.....maybe it does not have to make sense, not for the normal person anyway. So I go back to the beginning.

I believe the first reports of him holding her out of the window sill in 'an act of games.' I came upon a video which was taken soon after the incident, a Puerto Rican TV reporter who described what a witness saw. Chloe being held in the arms of grandpa, swinging her back and forth unto the opening. That made sense to me, tying that action up with the side view video. Some of the sleuthers also mentioned the odd movements of SA just before he fell to the floor. That must be it. He looked to me like he was going forward and back, one, two, and after the third time he falls back.

That just rocked me. Could it be that he practically tossed or chucked her out? I don't think intentionally, he is just a reckless person and it finally caught up with him on this day. At this point, if I were grandpa I'd be hoping I was drunk or under the influence, at least I can say I wasn't in my right mind.

And that's when the horror really set in. And would explain why SA and family are in such denial. I can't wrap my head around it?!?!?

I also think RCCL has better videos which will be more damning. And witnesses.

I can't wait for this to be over. I imagine SA and the Wiegands are going through hell.

JMOO, IMOO, Etc........
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A hell which they, unfortunately, are perpetuating. IMO
 
In vino veritas said:
IMO... another contradiction by SA. He said he watched her fall “all the away down”. How could he do that if he looked for her on the ship’s floor first? It would only have been a matter of seconds before Chloe landed on the pier.
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Apparently he could have seen through the bottom window so maybe he first looked down and when he didn't see her inside the ship he looked out the window that was closer to the floor.
It's confusing to me too but from others descriptions from the way the bottom windows are angled one can see down the side of the ship but I'm not sure.
Either that, or he looked down for about two seconds and then looked out the window she fell from and only saw the last few seconds of the fall.

Imo
 
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