IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[katydid23]

And also because the mean old safety railing kept SA from being able to stand close enough to the window to see that it was open.

From the complaint:
Due to the distance between Mr. Anello standing at the wooden rail and the glass pane 18 inches in front of him, it was not apparent to Mr. Anello that the glass pane in front of him was, in fact, a window that had been slid all the way open so that there was no glass at all in the single frame in front of him.
Complaint - Wiegand vs Royal Caribbean Cruises LTD - LMAW, PA

This is misleading and deceitful^^^^.

We see him, in the video, resting his arms/shoulders on the window ledge. That means that his face is just inches away from the fresh air, if not actually fully into it.

His face was NOT 18 inches away from the open window area. Not while his upper body was resting on the window ledge.

 

[al66pine]

It's possible that if Chloe had a medical condition it had advanced.
The back and sides of her head seem to be bulging over her little ears.
Here is a photo from msm taken closer to the time of the cruise :
View attachment 227998

@LietKynes bbm Yes, photo taken closer to cruise time. Behind them, looks like two wheelie bags, and (maybe?) one has distinctive cruise line-issued tag attached. Maybe at airport, departing from Indiana for cruise, or transfer or layover.
Where is @BetteDavisEyes, when we need her to identify the luggage tag? Off on a cruise, lucky duck. Hope she & Mr. BDE are enjoying themselves.

 

[justice4allnow]

SA's Clothing & Footwear?
@fabvab sbm Good point seems like it, maybe depending on water pressure & other factors in the splash pad. W the circumstances of his being summoned to watch Chloe, was there time to change clothing?
I wonder how much water was in the splash pad floor. More than a puddle; does it accumulate? If SA was not wearing flip-flops or water shoes, probably did not want to get street shoes all wet. In vids, can anyone see his footwear?
How high was the water pressure in those nozzles, fountains, decorative showers, etc. A mist? A light drizzle? Or enough to soak thru clothing? In vids, did anyone think his clothing was drenched?

Might have been annoying for him. jmo

In a video, which I didn't save, I listened to Winkleman saying that Sam and Chi played at the splash-pad and then they showered before moving over to the windows.

 

[they'll get you]

Color blindness is his excuse.

Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says colorblindness may have been a factor

Anello told "CBS This Morning" lead national correspondent David Begnaud that he is colorblind and believes that may have contributed to him not realizing the window was open.

"Some of the people who've been on the boat have written to me and said, 'David, the windows are tinted, and so it is pretty easy to recognize that it's open,'" Begnaud said.

"I'm colorblind, David," Anello said. "I don't know. I just never saw it. ... I've been told that that's a reason that it might have happened."

What a crock’o’schmitt!

 

[Snoods]

Also can I say that I absolutely LOVE the fact that the signature of the lawyer responding to RCCL counsel in the emails includes that stupid "BEST LAWYER OF THE YEAR" icon from the website? It makes me wonder if they have it stamped on coffee mugs and hanging on banners all over their office. That's such a nice touch. Kind of a "Oh? Hey you're a lawyer too. BUT, are you THE BEST LAWYER OF THE YEAR?? Yeah, I thought not. Don't forget who you're talking to, kay?" vibe to it.

RSBM Lol. So pompous. Oh, you’re The Okayest Lawyer of the Year? I’m The Best. Bow.

Their expert witnesses will be absolute experts in the truest degree, with Degrees.

RCCL will have THE BEST EXPERT WITNESSES OF THE YEAR! Peer reviewed by Websleuths.

 

[they'll get you]

It's possible that if Chloe had a medical condition it had advanced.
The back and sides of her head seem to be bulging over her little ears.

Here is a photo from msm taken closer to the time of the cruise :

View attachment 227998

All medical histories will be searched.

 

[neesaki]

First post here but have been somewhat following on other forums/sites, but I have taken the time to read all six threads. Some of my private thoughts have already been expressed well by other posters.

These. Are. Only. My. Thoughts....

1) Assuming one believes SA’s statements regarding touching/banging on the glass:
a) What in SA’s background allows him informed/expert knowledge of the safety and the integrity of window glass vs the plexiglass such as in a hockey arena?
b) SA is not a new addition to KW’s immediate family. No one in the family has ever noticed any visual deficits?

2) If I were a lawyer representing RCCL, I would utterly hate myself but would depose Chloe’s brother. Does the family not realize that insisting on continuing with the “it’s all the boat’s fault” lawsuit that this is a real possibility?

3) *disclaimer: Chloe is the victim here. All children deserve a safe, loving and nurturing environment* Chloe, the helpless victim, did appear to have an unusually large and oddly misshaped head. JMO but for posters to respectfully question if there were pre-existing medical conditions is not unreasonable. JMO but the W’s opened the door here with both the fund raising account for “medical expenses” and claiming for future earnings of Chloe.

Once again, many of my private thoughts already addressed by other posters here. However, everything about this but especially SA sends my hinky meter off the charts.

Thank you.

You’ve voiced so many of my own thoughts on this case. Aside from that, sounds like you’re on the same page as many of us are.
Especially with the Hinky Meter being off the charts.

Welcome to Websleuths, and especially to Chloe’s thread.

 

[they'll get you]

@LietKynes bbm Yes, photo taken closer to cruise time. Behind them, looks like two wheelie bags, and (maybe?) one has distinctive cruise line-issued tag attached. Maybe at airport, departing from Indiana for cruise, or transfer or layover.
Where is @BetteDavisEyes, when we need her to identify the luggage tag? Off on a cruise, lucky duck. Hope she & Mr. BDE are enjoying themselves.

Al different colours depending on the rooms.


This green one is how it’s emailed to you. You print, fold and staple it to your luggage.

It appears the RCC luggage tag is attached here.

 

[Cool Cats]

What a crock’o’schmitt!

Ha! @they'll get you Your avatar sums it up so succinctly

 

[they'll get you]

This is misleading and deceitful^^^^.

We see him, in the video, resting his arms/shoulders on the window ledge. That means that his face is just inches away from the fresh air, if not actually fully into it.

His face was NOT 18 inches away from the open window area. Not while his upper body was resting on the window ledge.

Just pray katy that the people on the jury are smart enough to see the light through all the smoke and mirrors when they all see and touch those windows themselves.

 

[they'll get you]

Ha! @they'll get you Your avatar sums it up so succinctly

In Aust we had a lying, cheating murderous father and daughter. That, my friend was loaded for them.
Pigs arses to them and SA.

 

[LietKynes]

All medical histories will be searched.

Yes you're right.

If this goes to trial -- and it appears likely, the history of life/health insurance will also be examined.
As in : how much , and were there accident riders or clauses ?
If the lawsuit is dropped and SA takes the offered plea deal, then all of this will go away.
But if the family keeps fighting for their payout , it could lead down uncomfortable paths.

 

[Lawsmygame2]

All along I have been thinking...okay 18 inches I guess/maybe seems a lot from outside the rail to end of window ledge. Then I did something that really put things into perspective for me. I got a tape measure out and pulled it out to 18 inches. I measured from under my armpit down my arm and at 18 inches it stopped just at my wrist. From under my armpit to my tip of my fingertips it measured 26 inches. 18 inches from the top of my head came to just above the end of my sternum. I also put it in front of my face from the tip of my nose to see how far it was from my face. I am 5’7. Wow...

SA is suppose to be 5’11. IMO, if SA was standing upright, even with his gut just touching the outside of the railing, he could have put Chloe at the window at least 5-8 inches. If he was “bent over,” he could put her even further out. So I call BS on MW’s “physically impossible” claim.

Although I really didn’t need to do these measurements because, IMO, the video shows SA leaning out the window and holding Chloe outside the window, doing so reenforced what I knew all along.

 

[Snoods]

'Oh my god ... All I know is I was trying to reach the glass and I know that we leaned over to try to have her reach the glass, at that point she slipped."

What the heck does this^^^ mean? >>> " I know that we leaned over to try to have her reach the glass, at that point she slipped."

We leaned over? What does that mean exactly?

The Baby is being propped up, standing on the open window ledge. So what does that mean when he says " we leaned over to try to have her reach the glass, at that point she slipped."

WE leaned over? If she was standing on the tiny window ledge, and they both 'leaned over'...

Why the heck would he do that? He literally pushed her out of that open window, according to these words.

If he 'leaned over' , then he is shoving her forward. I'd call that manslaughter.

Video Suggests Cruise Ship Grandpa Knew Window Was Open

BBM Especially since he had already leaned way out the window and not made contact with glass! Is that not when a reasonable person (blind, colorblind) would figure out the window was open? One of these windows is not like the others?

I can stick my upper body outside this window and not hit the glass no matter how far I lean out, it is not tinted, and I can feel a breeze. Wow this is the coolest, safest window ever! I have an idea, I’m going to hold Chloe outside this window to see if she can reach the glass. Not yet? What about now? Idiocy.

 

[they'll get you]

IMPACTANTE | ¡Video exclusivo dentro del crucero cuando el abuelo, Salvatore Anello, asoma a la niña por la ventana del piso 11! #QueBochinche #LaComay


Stop and watch the people around SA. @5:26
There will be witnesses.
People seem to be reactive before she falls

Before Chloe falls there are three people in white shirts in the Juice Bar who stop and watch, maybe disbelieving staff.
Also, to the right, to their right there is a woman in white who appears to be watching and she gets up and walks away before Chloe is dropped.
Watch the people move and react BEFORE Chloe falls, did Chloe scream or cry when she was put up there?

Many people freeze, fight or flight.
imo the three people freeze and can’t believe what they are seeing and the woman can’t bear what she’s seeing and gets up and walks away
It’s a natural reaction because it happens so bloody quickly there’s no time to react and the fear of saying something might cause an accident.
Image, if I’m right, the PTSD these people must be suffering.

 

[katydid23]

IMPACTANTE | ¡Video exclusivo dentro del crucero cuando el abuelo, Salvatore Anello, asoma a la niña por la ventana del piso 11! #QueBochinche #LaComay


Stop and watch the people around SA.
There will be witnesses.

Before Chloe falls there are three people in white shirts in the Juice Bar who stop and watch, maybe disbelieving staff.
Also, to the right, there is a woman who appears to be watching and she gets up and walks away before Chloe is dropped.

Many people freeze, fight or flight.
imo the three people freeze and can’t believe what they are seeing and the woman can’t bear what she’s seeing and gets up and walks away
It’s a natural reaction because it happens so bloody quickly there’s no time to react and the fear of saying something might cause an accident.
Image, if I’m right, the PTSD these people must be suffering.

Yes, and I noticed one man ran to look out the window, right as SA is falling to the ground in shock. He must have been watching it happen?

 

[Lawsmygame2]

IMPACTANTE | ¡Video exclusivo dentro del crucero cuando el abuelo, Salvatore Anello, asoma a la niña por la ventana del piso 11! #QueBochinche #LaComay


Stop and watch the people around SA. @5:26
There will be witnesses.
People seem to be reactive before she falls

Before Chloe falls there are three people in white shirts in the Juice Bar who stop and watch, maybe disbelieving staff.
Also, to the right, to their right there is a woman in white who appears to be watching and she gets up and walks away before Chloe is dropped.
Watch the people move and react BEFORE Chloe falls, did Chloe scream or cry when she was put up there?

Many people freeze, fight or flight.
imo the three people freeze and can’t believe what they are seeing and the woman can’t bear what she’s seeing and gets up and walks away
It’s a natural reaction because it happens so bloody quickly there’s no time to react and the fear of saying something might cause an accident.
Image, if I’m right, the PTSD these people must be suffering.

Yes!!! Look at the link posted by katydid in post 2079. Watch all the people after Chloe fell. These are all potential witnesses. I wonder what alerted them that this had happened.

 

[BoisterouslyShy]

I don't understand why some posters are saying SA picked her up overhead and threw her out the window, when the behind video shows SA lifting her, standing her up on the right side of him on the railing, then he switches her to his left side. Now CW appears to be further away from him, possibly sitting on or being held by SA near the metal window frame. With all the antics SA went through handling CW, I don't think her killing was intentional, otherwise SA would probably have thrown her out the window right after he lifted her up. SA admitted to standing her up, sitting her down, holding her with one arm, etc.

There’s no way IMO this man would have intentionally hurt that precious child, his granddaughter. Every websleuth here knows monsters can look like very average people. Evil has many faces. And it would take a monster to commit such a heinous act. But grandpa is NOT that monster.
This was a terrible and tragic accident and this poor family will never be the same again.
Can you imagine your own family’s annual vacay, taking a fun cruise together, making memories, because THAT’S what families do- but ending this tragically is horrifying.
If just once I could ever be a witness to even just a handful of the online communities in our world of cyber rallying behind people involved in a tragic loss, supporting those people instead of spewing venomous and hurtful things about them, how amazing that would be. But it’ll never happen. This is a quality family, they’re good hearted people, yet broken hearted. I extend my condolences. I’m rooting them on. I’d rather do that than chop them down based on zero evidence that this was intentional. All the best. I hope they can make it past this, together.

 

[Wehwalt]

A couple of comments:
I doubt if the brother would be called by RCC just for the purpose of discussing whether Chloe banged on the glass at his hockey games. There's probably a little relevancy to the issue but not too much, and you'd be taking both a risk both with the jury and the public.

If there is a suspicion that stories are being altered after the fact, perhaps at the request of the Winkleman firm or PR people working with them, I would suggest routinely web archiving them. The unanimity of the media basically in support of SA (and the lack of interest in any deep investigation of him or the family), as opposed to the outraged comments on every story that allows them, at the very least says that the media is marching to the beat of a different drummer for uncertain reasons. I wonder how they would respond to a quiet request on behalf of the family to delete "inaccurate" information from early stories "so the family won't be grieved".

 

[al66pine]

dbm